Is this mix too hot?

ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
IIReignManII said:
A family member of mine who grows this way as well is really suggesting to me that I go out and get a couple shovel fulls of outside natural dirt to add to my mix as well...would you personally recommend this? His reasoning was that the mix wont retain nutrients well without adding some real dirt.
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well that reasoning is simply not true. however, there will be some advantages to doing that, you will introduce organisms from your local environment, and though not all of them will survive due to environmental differences or lack of mutualistic and/or synergistic relationships, you will gain diversity. those that prefer your environmental conditions will hang around. that's why it's always important to compost your soils in the environment they are grown in... you select the organisms that prefer your environment (mostly temperature related). same thing for brewing teas.

and natural "dirt" is called SOIL. dirt is what you sweep off the floor. soil is a living thing :) (just like elaine ingham, i too dislike the term dirt, haha)

if you have a really sandy soil, i wouldn't even bother. if you live in a city... i wouldn't bother. if you have a nice dark soil (like maybe the top layer in a mature forest... now you're talking :) compost and peat moss have good CEC properties, they will hold nutrients no problem. plus your nutrient banks are your amendments, cycled by the microbes, and availability affected by pH... it's complicated :lol::bigjoint:
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
well that reasoning is simply not true. however, there will be some advantages to doing that, you will introduce organisms from your local environment, and though not all of them will survive due to environmental differences or lack of mutualistic and/or synergistic relationships, you will gain diversity. those that prefer your environmental conditions will hang around. that's why it's always important to compost your soils in the environment they are grown in... you select the organisms that prefer your environment (mostly temperature related). same thing for brewing teas.

and natural "dirt" is called SOIL. dirt is what you sweep off the floor. soil is a living thing :) (just like elaine ingham, i too dislike the term dirt, haha)

if you have a really sandy soil, i wouldn't even bother. if you live in a city... i wouldn't bother. if you have a nice dark soil (like maybe the top layer in a mature forest... now you're talking :) compost and peat moss have good CEC properties, they will hold nutrients no problem. plus your nutrient banks are your amendments, cycled by the microbes, and availability affected by pH... it's complicated :lol::bigjoint:
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I'm in northeastern Oklahoma...definitely a ton of woods and foresty areas around here to nab some soil from. His attitude seemed to be I'd be doing myself an extreme disservice without adding some local soil but I wasn't sure how factual he was being vs opinion.
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
If I had options to go pick up a couple things, I would get crab meal, gypsum, and neem meal... and ditch the blood meal all together.

Good Luck
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Would it be wise of me to add them all if I got the crab, neem, and gypsum soon or should I only add the gypsum to my current mix?...maybe grab a bag of garden lime as well? I feel like my mix I potted is missing a pH buffer, I haven't been able to afford a proper soil pH tester yet... If I have the opportunity to grab a few more items within the next few days to mix into this, is there anything else I should grab to complete this mix? This is the wall of nutes at the local shop that I have access to if that helps.. I was also thinking I might need to grab some quick fix veg nutes as well for some oh-shit moments if they arise? I grabbed some Alaska Fish Fertilizer from Lowe's and I was eyeballing that Espoma Bio-Tone to keep around in the garden. I'm slowly starting to realize I put a lot of my research into these finished soil mixes but should have read more into keeping the plants happy in veg in these smaller containers.

 
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ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
definitely get the mykos if you don't have a fungal inoculant yet. you could def use a buffer, the garden lime at 1/4c per cu. ft. and yes if you can get the crab, neem, and gypsum, add them all at 1/2c per cu. ft.
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
definitely get the mykos if you don't have a fungal inoculant yet. you could def use a buffer, the garden lime at 1/4c per cu. ft. and yes if you can get the crab, neem, and gypsum, add them all at 1/2c per cu. ft.
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I do have some mykos! I think the espoma gypsum is pelletized, the espoma garden lime might be as well... is that okay or do I need a more micronized version?
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
IIReignManII said:
I do have some mykos! I think the espoma gypsum is pelletized, the espoma garden lime might be as well... is that okay or do I need a more micronized version?
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No worries, the pelletized is micronized (gypsum or the lime), formed into pellets with a fast dissolving clay binder. Makes it easier to use in a mechanical spreader. The pellets dissolve with the first watering or 2, releasing the micronized.

I use both types of the dolo. Hell, it's only $4.50 for a 40 lb bag at HD. I use the pulverized in new mixes and the pellets for top dressing outside. If you've ever tried to hand spread the pulverized with the slightest breeze the extra $4.50 for the pelletized is a real bargain. The pulverized is like trying to spread baby powder. LOL

I've never seen gypsum that wasn't pelletized for sale. Ok by me.

Wet
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
Thank you guys...looks like with the weekend and new years I wont be able to grab anything until the 2nd. Google said the shop was open today but I drove by and they were closed, bummer.
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
definitely get the mykos if you don't have a fungal inoculant yet. you could def use a buffer, the garden lime at 1/4c per cu. ft. and yes if you can get the crab, neem, and gypsum, add them all at 1/2c per cu. ft.
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I grabbed the gypsum and lime today....I cant find any crab or neem but I bought this Espoma Bio-Tone Starter on a whim, figured I needed a soluble all purpose fert in the grow room....do you think I should toss some in when I add in the lime and gypsum?

 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
IIReignManII said:
I grabbed the gypsum and lime today....I cant find any crab or neem but I bought this Espoma Bio-Tone Starter on a whim, figured I needed a soluble all purpose fert in the grow room....do you think I should toss some in when I add in the lime and gypsum?

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its not really soluble. it's slightly soluble, but is designed as a long term slow release fertilizer, which is good. plus the bio-tone really is about inoculating microorganisms to the mix, which is also good.

gypsum is a great sulfur source.

you have room to add 1/2 cup per cu.ft. each of gypsum and bio-tone. i would add the lime at 1/4c per cu.ft. because you already have the bone meal, but are lacking a buffer. should make a good ratio for Ca to Mg.
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
its not really soluble. it's slightly soluble, but is designed as a long term slow release fertilizer, which is good. plus the bio-tone really is about inoculating microorganisms to the mix, which is also good.

gypsum is a great sulfur source.

you have room to add 1/2 cup per cu.ft. each of gypsum and bio-tone. i would add the lime at 1/4c per cu.ft. because you already have the bone meal, but are lacking a buffer. should make a good ratio for Ca to Mg.
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Awesome awesome...thank you so much for your help here. I mixed it all up and rebagged it...I guess I will abandon the crab and neem on this cook for now, maybe top dress in a little later on if I get ahold of it? Hypothetically, if I planted into this mix later this week would I run the risk of harming my plant? My cousin told me I should plant in it now and get it out of that smaller pot, but you suggested it having at least another two weeks in that pot and I would prefer to let the mix cook as long as possible...
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
IIReignManII said:
Awesome awesome...thank you so much for your help here. I mixed it all up and rebagged it...I guess I will abandon the crab and neem on this cook for now, maybe top dress in a little later on if I get ahold of it? Hypothetically, if I planted into this mix later this week would I run the risk of harming my plant. My cousin told me I should plant in it now and get it out of that smaller pot, but you suggested it having at least another two weeks in that pot and I would prefer to let the mix cook as long as possible...
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if your plant looks fine, leave it in the container. give the mix another couple weeks before planting into it. yes you can topdress the crab and neem later in the grow.

you were composting the mix in fabric pots yes?
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
if your plant looks fine, leave it in the container. give the mix another couple weeks before planting into it. yes you can topdress the crab and neem later in the grow.

you were composting the mix in fabric pots yes?
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Yep they're in 7 gallon fabric pots
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
cool. make sure to keep the outer edges moist during the process. being too dry will inhibit microbial activity. i prefer composting mixes in something plastic because it helps keep the moisture. storage totes work great.
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I do have two storage totes, I used them to mix the soil. I thought about cooking in them but was worried about anerobic bacteria...IDK if the wife would let me drill holes in the bottom of her totes lmao
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
IIReignManII said:
I do have two storage totes, I used them to mix the soil. I thought about cooking in them but was worried about anerobic bacteria...IDK if the wife would let me drill holes in the bottom of her totes lmao
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it's beneficial to compost whole batches of soil together. you don't have to drill holes in them. just make sure you toss the soil about once a week to introduce fresh oxygen to the mix. don't cover the tote tightly, and that will let oxygen diffuse into the tote.

i use a compost tumbler to compost my soil mixes. it works amazingly. all you gotta do is rotate to mix it up once a week, and i just leave the lid partially open for air exchange. compost tumblers weren't made very well for composting (unless you want to do it anaerobically haha), but they work great for letting soil mixes sit and mature :)
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
it's beneficial to compost whole batches of soil together. you don't have to drill holes in them. just make sure you toss the soil about once a week to introduce fresh oxygen to the mix. don't cover the tote tightly, and that will let oxygen diffuse into the tote.

i use a compost tumbler to compost my soil mixes. it works amazingly. all you gotta do is rotate to mix it up once a week, and i just leave the lid partially open for air exchange. compost tumblers weren't made very well for composting (unless you want to do it anaerobically haha), but they work great for letting soil mixes sit and mature :)
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Right on...thank you so much again for taking the time to talk to me. If I wind up having to cure in the bags, just make sure to keep the edges moist when they start to dry out and only feed them the agave sugar once at the beginning and only regular water after that? I've never wetted it to the point of runoff from the bag, I just moistened it with maybe a quart of regular water when I initially mixed it, a quart of agave water after I bagged it the first time, then when I mixed in the gypsum, lime, and bio-tone I moistened it again in the tote with another quart or so of regular water before I potted them the 2nd time. Could it use another bigger shot of agave water after adding the 3 new items?
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
IIReignManII said:
Right on...thank you so much again for taking the time to talk to me. If I wind up having to cure in the bags, just make sure to keep the edges moist when they start to dry out and only feed them the agave sugar once at the beginning and only regular water after that? I've never wetted it to the point of runoff from the bag, I just moistened it with maybe a quart of regular water when I initially mixed it, a quart of agave water after I bagged it the first time, then when I mixed in the gypsum, lime, and bio-tone I moistened it again in the tote with another quart or so of regular water before I potted them the 2nd time. Could it use another bigger shot of agave water after adding the 3 new items?
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You shouldn’t need too. Just be sure you have adequate moisture or your soil will not compost and inoculate properly.

You are right in that you don’t want runoff. But you can’t have the mix
Too dry or it will not be as biologically active as at should be.

I don’t remember if you picked out a mulch yet, but if you have a farm store around, go grab a bale of bedding straw. The prechopped and dedicated stuff is the best.
 
IIReignManII

IIReignManII

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
You shouldn’t need too. Just be sure you have adequate moisture or your soil will not compost and inoculate properly.

You are right in that you don’t want runoff. But you can’t have the mix
Too dry or it will not be as biologically active as at should be.

I don’t remember if you picked out a mulch yet, but if you have a farm store around, go grab a bale of bedding straw. The prechopped and dedicated stuff is the best.
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Would a layer of loose dry coco work as a mulch layer? I have a shitload of that laying around...if not, theres an Atwoods up the road I could for sure grab some straw from. I wanted to do a cover crop but havent been able to track down any clover seeds yet
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
IIReignManII said:
Would a layer of loose dry coco work as a mulch layer? I have a shitload of that laying around...if not, theres an Atwoods up the road I could for sure grab some straw from. I wanted to do a cover crop but havent been able to track down any clover seeds yet
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no loose dry coco will not work because it readily absorbs moisture and will evaporate off the water. straw is great because it helps provide a food stock for fungi in your soil to cycle nutrients.
 
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