Is this sap? Can I work this into form?

So after a muffin, 48 hours in the vac (24 hours at -7hg and 24 hours at full vac) with 115-130 degree temps at all times for an oil temp, I still could not get it to melt down to an oil to purge longer (if that makes sense or is even right?) but just did a flame test and somehow it is passing by merely bubbling then evaporating to nothing (no sparks or crackle). So what I am left with is this sap? Budder? I have no clue but not really a fan of it (PICTURE BELOW). Is there a recommended form you suggest I work it into or should I keep it the way it is. I was originally shooting for a honeycomb on this batch. Any help would be awesome as I have searched numerous threads for hours and cannot find anything about this.

I'll note that what you see in the picture is somewhat sticky on top (hopefully it was not decarb with accidental high temps), although, when I scraped a few pieces off to do the flame test I was able to roll in into small balls with my fingers and it wasn't that sticky as I did that.

After that long at temperature, it will most likely stay sap.

How is the aroma, flavor, and effects?

Thanks Fade. The aroma is still hard hitting and will stink up any area it is in. I am yet to take a hit and have only dropped it on the nail to see the reaction. I was seeing if there was a way to change it to honeycomb preferably or shatter. If it is stuck this way, so be it. Sometimes she goes sometimes she doesn't, that's just the fuckin way she goes. Not sure where I went wrong but I think it was when the muffin melted down to a solid yellow muffin like texture that I could handle and it never turned to a purging oil or anything. So you think the temps were too high and caused the sap?

Imo temps were too high after muffin started decarb.

Pulled it out and folded it. Too bad it is sap being 18g's. If it is under purged, what are the recommended settings for temp and vac to continue purging? So once it is this sap there's no going back huh? No chance at shatter with a torch, no honeycomb?

Nope I dont see it combing up or shattering at this point. Doesn't look horrible did you taste it yet?

lio lacidem said:

Nope I dont see it combing up or shattering at this point. Doesn't look horrible did you taste it yet?

Click to expand...

Going to put it in the vac and see if I can't pull anymore butane out first then I will take a hit. Full vac 115 degrees oil temp. I guess my lesson would be to always use lower temps that way I won't run into sap again when relating to temps. Question. Do you always have to muffin it out to get honeycomb? If so, what is your next step after getting your folded solid muffin? I think this is where I am making my mistake.

that will honeycomb right up.. just pull vac.. and let it sit.. after folding into a lil brick or watever shape ud like..

it looks like it was starting to wax up .

it should atleast.. the way it looks . looks like right before my stuff honeycombs.

that stuff looks more like a budder.. then a sap.. sap is usually really clear even if its not dewaxed..

basically.. sap.. is almost the same consistency as reclaim.. see threw stuff.

ive found that at 110-120F sometimes it takes way too long to budder.... weeks. but at 130-140F itll speed it up quite fast... SOMETIMES. other times it will turn to perma goo... I think it depends mainly on the AGE of the product, and the POTENCY of the product. pure fresh bud runs will wax up fast for me.... trim runs that have been sitting forever will NOT wax up on me.

Maine HomeGrown said:

Thanks Fade. The aroma is still hard hitting and will stink up any area it is in. I am yet to take a hit and have only dropped it on the nail to see the reaction. I was seeing if there was a way to change it to honeycomb preferably or shatter. If it is stuck this way, so be it. Sometimes she goes sometimes she doesn't, that's just the fuckin way she goes. Not sure where I went wrong but I think it was when the muffin melted down to a solid yellow muffin like texture that I could handle and it never turned to a purging oil or anything. So you think the temps were too high and caused the sap?

Click to expand...

Shatter is the carboxylic acid form of the cannabis essential oils, and to keep it brittle at room temperatures, it needs to stay in the carboxylic acid form.

Material decarboxylates naturally as a function of drying, so older material has a lower percent of carboxylic acid form and more of the base non polar phenolic form, which isn't brittle at room temperature.

Using heat during extraction can also partially or fully decarboxylate the oil. Temperature control throughout the process is therefore of prime consideration if you want close control of the end result.

For shatter, I like to fully liquidify the puddle in a thin film under about -29.5" Hg vacuum, which occur between 110F and 115F in all of the strains tested. That reduces the surface tension enough for the butane molecules to readily escape.

For wax, you need surface tension to hold the thing together long enough for it to inflate and the water present to form a wax and oil hydrate, so 85F or so is a better starting point if you are using a technique calling for full vacuum (-29.5" Hg) and incrementing the temperature up as the reaction subsides.

One of the problems with vacuum ovens, is that they can transfer heat only by conduction or radiant energy. That means that temperature changes on the dial take a while to raise the temperature of the actual product inside the vacuum oven.

Adding a heat sink, like a marble shelf absorbs and holds the radiant energy, so that when you open and close the oven to add or flip product, the temperature of the surface that the product is sitting on doesn't drop as far, helps with temperature control, but adds the element of reverse enertia heating up the large shelf mass using only radiant energy, so some folks like to start out at their maximum temperature (150F or so) and increment up the vacuum, instead of the heat, while bleeding dry nitrogen through the oven to keep the pressure above -29.5" Hg and flipping the patty every time the initial flare up of solvent and water vapor subsides.

All great advice guys. Getting better just ran two vac for two runs and both turned out great. I appreciate all the help you've helped me understand not just the way to do it but why it does it and all. Thanks and have a good one.

nice work.