Is vertical all it's cracked up to be?

I don't want to start a pissing contest or insult anyone but done properly, vertical grows always out perform horizontal, as far as watts per sf.

I grow vertically two different ways, one is a stacked 2k watt hexagon SOG with 2 gal hempy's (100% perlite) and the other is a shared 360 tree grow in soil with 1000k watt hps bulbs. We are experimenting with different light/plant configurations. I won't go into detail about plant and light counts but the site where we do the 360 grows is supplemented with solar power, so electrical consumption is not that big of an issue.

But when you have to pay the power company full price like most of us do, my vertical SOG out performs any other type of grow I've done. Sure there are a some down sides to it, like supplying 72 clones and changing the medium every cycle but once you get the program down, it's efficient as hell.

Vertical scrog is not my cup of tea because of the extended veg time but I could see the benefits for some to do it.

One variable I rarely see brought up when guys are bragging about yields, is the quality of the weed!
As we all know, many of the top shelf strains are not the big yielders, comparing a big bud grow to an OG grow is apples to oranges and so is the price per lb and demand when it comes to selling it to the clubs.

Not knocking anyone's grows but what good is a pic of a giant plant with huge buds if the price per lb of that weed is low or there is really not much demand for it?
Here in the Bay Area,(the land of the pot snobs) the market is so competitive and demanding that if you want the clubs to buy from you on a regular basis, you better have top notch stuff or you're ass out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there are just too many variables to consider when talking about yields and efficiency and what is best for any particular grower.

beenthere said:

Here in the Bay Area,(the land of the pot snobs) the market is so competitive and demanding that if you want the clubs to buy from you on a regular basis, you better have top notch stuff or you're ass out.

Click to expand...

Sounds like your area might be an exception - around here everyone is desperate for anything that isn't seedy-ass brick.

Kind of hard to quantify too. Weight is pretty "cut and dry" (pun intended )

I wish I lived where you lived dude. I think some of you non-med states would shit a Mexican brick if you knew what weed sells for on the open market. Try $150/ounce for grade A.

Beenthere: any recommendations for the vert tree grower?

Best I've done is 13.5 from 6000w...SOG grow and I vegg'd longer then normal. Peep this thread, 2.5-3lb per 1000w...

Doing a sog now 1500watts. 55 plants lookin to get an oz per plant.

i love when people say heaths full of shit.. more like ur just jealous ... ive seen a couple strains go from a 5 inch clone.. into flower.. and end up a 5 foot plant.. so with the right genetics.. and plant count. or SCREEN.. its deff possible to get more then that.. a friend i know was running a strain horizontal .. and running 2 1000w lights.. 8 plants.. and getting 4 lbs per light. a lb per plant.. very rediculous.. but with the right nutes.. and happy plants.. and the OLD CANNA COCO .. he was hitting RECORD numbers.

legallyflying said:

I wish I lived where you lived dude. I think some of you non-med states would shit a Mexican brick if you knew what weed sells for on the open market. Try $150/ounce for grade A.

Beenthere: any recommendations for the vert tree grower?

Click to expand...

I haven't dialed in the tree grows (grams/watt) like I have my vertical SOG, but I'm working a new gig with 7 plants and 4 600s utilizing a solar revolution. I'll let you know if it works out.

Vertical is the way to go ... More light coverage , gets closer to the plants and with some fans the heat can be handled jmho

The only advantages that I can see to vertical growing is that you're able to stack your plants on the sides of the room, thereby giving you more "floor space" to put plants.. However.. a 4 foot square space, and 400 watt of light(I use the ratio 400watts|4 foot sq as just an example for explanation purposes)... are both still a 4 foot space and 400 watts of light.....

Just because you're able to put more plants in, doesn't mean you will get more out. A space will only yield what the space will fit. I do understand using all available light and space to train buds to, but, in the end all that messing around comes down to, is it worth it to you, that is the only question you have to answer for yourself.

You can practically get the same effect, by placing all your buckets in a circle and treating each branch as it's own seperate individual plant, training the branches of your plants around a circular chicken wire cage, that sits inside the plant circle... hang your lights inside the cage, keep training your tops and branches to the cage... Nearly the same effect....

not my image (credit goes to member Gastanker) but it shows how vert bare bulb provides a wider footprint when working with taller plants. (you hang them lower in the canopy)
been growing large plants in bare vert most of my grow career; i have yet to see a room bigger than 14k done with horizontals+hoods.

in canada legal grows are limited by plant count; we're working with an allowance of 35.... which means, big plants.
1kw: 3 plants is the local norm for tree grows.

your points:
1. vert barebulbs want to be hung a bit lower in the canopy for better penetration/distribution. ours are generally flush with the tops of the plants, a bit higher for vegging.
2. see above. the height/angle from the slightly lower bulb makes a difference, especially vis-a-vis shading. there's a certain amount of LST involved, but not to the extent of a SOG.
3. see above.
4. sorry, i need to review inverse square law again for the specs, but there's a light vs. distance equation that shows the spread of light being taller by a factor of x per unit of distance from point source.
5. personal preference, really.

feel free to drop by the journal, i haven't updated it in ages but a lot of the setup info can be found in the first half of it. (that and mr kitty is the resident engineer, not me. )

Wow, Mellokitty, that is very "en-lightening"....

I've also seen rotating barrel grows that are placed on their sides in which plants are put in a large round "thing" and spin around the light, the barrel rotates the roots through a reservoir, twice or 4 times an hour. It all seems very intricate.


http://www.4hydroponics.com/hydroponics/items.asp?ItemNo=bonzai <--- Like that one.

that looks very cutting edge but, personally, too many bells and whistles for me. (mechanical failure makes me want to smash things)
i briefly ran a modified "cage" system but i never did particularly well with it...... although i chalk part of that up to being young and too impatient to learn as well.

just for the record i'm a big fan of horizontal SOG/SCROG too, it's just hellish on the plant count.

I wished government would get the heck out of the way, it'd be cool to see all of this brought to it's full potential. There is a lot of research that needs to be done, that's been ignored far to long just because of the governments need to tell everyone else what to do.

legallyflying said:

Thanks for the tips. We are running 18k watts so I would like to avoid all that training to screens but for sure that seems the best way to run things.

An just for the record, anyone who has been growing weed awhile knows that Heath Robertson's "record grows" we're complete bullshit.

Click to expand...

Where are you running 18k watts ?

In a van, down by the river.

I just switched to vertically hung bulbs as I recently picked up a medical license and will be growing trees and hanging the lights vertically between the plants. I switched basically because that's how the big boys do it out here in BC. Line the plants up in rows with bulbs hanging between the plants so that the light gets 360deg of plant around it. I'm currently starting my first grow this way so I can't elaborate on the pro-cons but after seeing the results personally and reading Heath's tree grow I'm sure that it works for getting the most bud out of a small number of plants. Might be less work than trying to train 20 huge plants to scrog also, seems the name of the game is keeping it simple in large operations as I'm sure you know.

Basically the grow I'm emulating gets an average of 3/4 pounds a plant off a 3-4 week veg on an absolutely massive scale, so like you doing a large grow this could work out well for your style if you have the space.

We shall see. Yeah, you don't have to train through a scrog screen but you do has to brace all those buds .

So lots and lots of yo yo's or a combination of yoyo and nets

man i stager my plants so that i get a better yield i do one low and the other side a lil hight i alway do realy good look tord the middle they are higher only because i use it like a wall of green my canoppy is no bigger than 16 inches deep but along the middle i use that wall i get a lil more out of the stager fuck the milar silver red i just find experiments to be my love of this game peep the tree from the wallView attachment 2461058know look at if from another anglethats my wall, fuck if only i could sit hear and share all my secrets with you guys you'd flip mabe one day but hope you guys like it im looking to incorperate my aroe with a way to make that wall so that the light doesnt go to waist on the sides

lolz some one taken down my pics thats fucked up lolz damit..

half i been hacked