Islam: Evil or misunderstood

Johnnyorganic said:

Separation of church and state is based on tolerance.

There is no tolerance in Islam.

Definitely not just another religion. And it does not accept Western freedoms and concepts we take for granted.

Otherwise we wouldn't have honor killings over here.

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Again Johnny, you are using a simple and broad logic that really doesnt apply.
Yes I agree the more fanatical style of Islam doesnt allow for tolerance, most Muslims are tolerant though. If not, where is this rash is Islamic Jihad here? We have plenty of Muslims and mosques around, yet I dont see any beheading (except of course for the Az. desert right Gov. Jan Brewer)

A small and fanatical portion of a religion are not representative of the entire movement. I dont define Christianity by the words of nutjobs like Westboro Baptist Church, as I dont define Islam by a nut like Bin Laden.

ink the world said:

Again Johnny, you are using a simple and broad logic that really doesnt apply.
Yes I agree the more fanatical style of Islam doesnt allow for tolerance, most Muslims are tolerant though. If not, where is this rash is Islamic Jihad here? We have plenty of Muslims and mosques around, yet I dont see any beheading (except of course for the Az. desert right Gov. Jan Brewer)

A small and fanatical portion of a religion are not representative of the entire movement. I dont define Christianity by the words of nutjobs like Westboro Baptist Church, as I dont define Islam by a nut like Bin Laden.

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You blame Governor Brewer for the actions of drug smugglers?

A public high school football team in Dearborn, Michigan held practice overnight during Ramadan because all but two members of the team were Muslim.

I'm sure the two Infidels kept their mouths shut.

How's that separation of church and state working out for you?

Johnnyorganic said:

You blame Governor Brewer for the actions of drug smugglers?

A public high school football team in Dearborn, Michigan held practice overnight during Ramadan because all but two members of the team were Muslim.

I'm sure the two infidels kept their mouths shut.

How's that separation of church and state working out for you?

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Heres how the TRUTH is working for me J.

My point about Brweer is that she flat out LIED about the beheadings, not a single ME in the state could produce a single case over the last few years. Why when pushed about the lie did she basically choke and refuse to answer the question multiple times. Ill tell why......because she is a liar, trying to scare people w/ flat out bullshit.


Did you ever think that because that high of a percentage of the team would NOT BE ABLE to practice due to observing a religious holiday it was better for the TEAM to be able to practice at night so the majority could actually practice.....Im sure what was best for the TEAM was to have more than 2 players at practice. To me that seems like a pretty democratic concept, what is best for the majority.


Why is them observing a religious holiday any different than the Christian ones? Why doesnt the basketball team practice on Christmas, or the baseball practice on Easter? What would the reaction to that be?

Johnnyorganic said:

I used a term which was appropriate to the discussion and you accuse me of talking out of my ass.

You need to stop applying lipstick to that pig, abe.

My point was possession of a book is illegal. Sharia Law after all. Religion intertwined with government.

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I did accuse you of talking out of your ass, but that was later. You didn't actually respond to what I was saying, but rather chose to berate me on the way I said it, so I'm guessing I was right about the ass talking...

Again, where does all this intimate knowledge of muslims and islam come from? Have you been to any muslim countries, talked to people there? Have you met a lot of american muslims? Or do you get all this insight from somewhere else...?

I could make a case that christianity is a violent and barbaric religion based on things in the bible, actions of the lunatic fringe and hateful rhetoric coming from certain preachers. Then I could grab a random christian off the street to disprove it all.

Whenever Gibbs gets backed into a corner he lashes out, too. He becomes dismissive and insulting.

abe23 said:

I did accuse you of talking out of your ass, but that was later. You didn't actually respond to what I was saying, but rather chose to berate me on the way I said it, so I'm guessing I was right about the ass talking...

Again, where does all this intimate knowledge of muslims and islam come from? Have you been to any muslim countries, talked to people there? Have you met a lot of american muslims? Or do you get all this insight from somewhere else...?

I could make a case that christianity is a violent and barbaric religion based on things in the bible, actions of the lunatic fringe and hateful rhetoric coming from certain preachers. Then I could grab a random christian off the street to disprove it all.

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Does Somalia count?

ink the world said:

Heres how the TRUTH is working for me J.

My point about Brweer is that she flat out LIED about the beheadings, not a single ME in the state could produce a single case over the last few years. Why when pushed about the lie did she basically choke and refuse to answer the question multiple times. Ill tell why......because she is a liar, trying to scare people w/ flat out bullshit.


Did you ever think that because that high of a percentage of the team would NOT BE ABLE to practice due to observing a religious holiday it was better for the TEAM to be able to practice at night so the majority could actually practice.....Im sure what was best for the TEAM was to have more than 2 players at practice. To me that seems like a pretty democratic concept, what is best for the majority.


Why is them observing a religious holiday any different than the Christian ones? Why doesnt the basketball team practice on Christmas, or the baseball practice on Easter? What would the reaction to that be?

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Perhaps I misunderstood your point about Governor Brewer. It appeared to me you were holding her responsible for the crime.

I'm not defending Christianity. Government should accommodate no religion.

So you're okay with that particular religion imposing on that particular government institution?

Johnnyorganic said:

Perhaps I misunderstood your point about Governor Brewer. It appeared to me you were holding her responsible for the crime.

I'm not defending Christianity. Government should accommodate no religion.

So you're okay with that particular religion imposing on that particular government institution?

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Johnny, I like debating with you, we always still civil and thats kinda rare around here.

I look at it this way:
It was what was best for the team......if only 2 kids can practice because the rest are observing a religious holiday the team suffers.
I think it is more the case of Muslim kids being given the same rights as Christian kids. I can GUARANTEE that the Christians arent practicing on XMas or Easter.

I dont look at either as an imposition, more of a respect for both beliefs. That I do agree with.

Sure....

I'm guessing you were there in uniform in the 90s? Are you saying that that's where you got your fantastic insights into the muslim psyche...?

Sorry if I'm being a prick about this, but that kind of uninformed anti-islam discourse just pisses me off. They definitely have some issues to sort out, but to blame a religion that 1 billion people follower peacefully for the actions of a bunch of crazies is just as stupid as blaming christianity for the murder of abortion doctors. I actually agree that some aspects of arab culture are violent and intolerant of others, but they were that way long before they became muslims. They also happen to have lots of oil, which has allowed them to export their crazy with varying degrees of success in places like pakistan, the philippines and elsewhere but it's hardly what the majority of muslims adhere to.

Oh, and exactly what corner did you back me into if I might ask....? I'm very curious.

ink the world said:

Johnny, I like debating with you, we always still civil and thats kinda rare around here.

I look at it this way:
It was what was best for the team......if only 2 kids can practice because the rest are observing a religious holiday the team suffers.
I think it is more the case of Muslim kids being given the same rights as Christian kids. I can GUARANTEE that the Christians arent practicing on XMas or Easter.

I dont look at either as an imposition, more of a respect for both beliefs. That I do agree with.

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I like debating with you, too.

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Mob rule.

Luckily we live in a Republic. The Constitution protects the minority from the mob.

Those two Infidels were imposed upon for the sake of a religion. It ain't right.

The reason I brought it up in the first place was to demonstrate that Sharia Law is not relegated only to Islamic countries. We are becoming infected with it out of a desire for inclusiveness, multiculturalism, diversity, or whatever (insert warm and funny Progressive concept).

abe23 said:

Sure....

I'm guessing you were there in uniform in the 90s? Are you saying that that's where you got your fantastic insights into the muslim psyche...?

Sorry if I'm being a prick about this, but that kind of uninformed anti-islam discourse just pisses me off. They definitely have some issues to sort out, but to blame a religion that 1 billion people follower peacefully for the actions of a bunch of crazies is just as stupid as blaming christianity for the murder of abortion doctors. I actually agree that some aspects of arab culture are violent and intolerant of others, but they were that way long before they became muslims. They also happen to have lots of oil, which has allowed them to export their crazy with varying degrees of success in places like pakistan, the philippines and elsewhere but it's hardly what the majority of muslims adhere to.

Oh, and exactly what corner did you back me into if I might ask....? I'm very curious.

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It's very challenging to have positive feelings about people who are trying to kill you just for trying to ward off a humanitarian catastrophe in their country.

And yes I read a book on Islam a few years ago, but for the life of me I can't remember the title and I can't find the damn thing. It included 'Guide to Islam' in the title.

The corner does not matter. I don't know and I could care less. The dismissive and insulting response was a tell.

When I went to Airborne School. The Chaplain addressed us before the very first jump. In this crowded room he said that anyone not wanting to be present for the prayer could leave the room.

I wanted to leave. But I didn't.

After the prayer he gloated that in his career no one had taken him up on his offer to leave.

No one should be compelled to single themselves out for their non-belief in a government setting.

I said it before and I''ll say it again: It ain't right.

kinda funny how two jews (abe and i) are most vehemently defending muslims.

johnny, i bought some shiner in your honor. that shit is too good.

1.6 billion muslims in the world...are you really trying to demonize them all?

i think hannimal put it well: it is more of a sociological issue. i've been friends with a very few muslims in the past, none of them ever called me an infidel or wanted to kill me. i think you could probably generalize that to an enormous percentage of american muslims. i don't think that percentage would be as high in a country that practices sharia law, but it doesn't mean they would all want to slice my throat.

I actually wouldn't even have bothered posting in this thread if someone else had posted some dumb statement like that...

So again, you make a claim that we are at war with a religion and your basis for this is some time you spent overseas in the military in the dirt-poorest shithole of the muslim world and a book that was something along the lines of 'guide to islam'? Seriously?

I do apologize if I'm being an asshole about his, but I don't respond well to blanket generalizations about an entire group of people from someone I usually consider to be intelligent and reasonable. Especially when intelligence and reason are becoming an ever rarer commodity on this board.

UncleBuck said:

kinda funny how two jews (abe and i) are most vehemently defending muslims.

johnny, i bought some shiner in your honor. that shit is too good.

1.6 billion muslims in the world...are you really trying to demonize them all?

i think hannimal put it well: it is more of a sociological issue. i've been friends with a very few muslims in the past, none of them ever called me an infidel or wanted to kill me. i think you could probably generalize that to an enormous percentage of american muslims. i don't think that percentage would be as high in a country that practices sharia law, but it doesn't mean they would all want to slice my throat.

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That is good stuff. I'm glad you like it.

Did you know that the Shiner Brewery is one of a very few American breweries that survived Prohibition?

Johnnyorganic said:

That is good stuff. I'm glad you like it.

Did you know that the Shiner Brewery is one of a very few American breweries that survived Prohibition?

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i did not. gotta love those texan-germans

abe23 said:

I actually wouldn't even have bothered posting in this thread if someone else had posted some dumb statement like that...

So again, you make a claim that we are at war with a religion and your basis for this is some time you spent overseas in the military in the dirt-poorest shithole of the muslim world and a book that was something along the lines of 'guide to islam'? Seriously?

I do apologize if I'm being an asshole about his, but I don't respond well to blanket generalizations about an entire group of people from someone I usually consider to be intelligent and reasonable. Especially when intelligence and reason are becoming an ever rarer commodity on this board.

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Yeah, seriously. I can't remember the fucking title. And there are much more sources of information besides books, abe. The Google is full of good information once you weed out the stupid stuff.

You said Muslim country. I said Somalia.

I am not a climatologist, but that does not stop me from thinking man made global warming is a crock of shit.

You are showing your tell again.

Johnnyorganic said:

I am not a climatologist, but that does not stop me from thinking man made global warming is a crock of shit.

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how about smoking causes cancer? they have no direct proof of a causal relationship there, either. just an overwhelming concensus.

and just like global warming, they have a swarm of paid-for 'scientists' that will tell you it is a crock of shit.



abe: not sure if you follow the adl as much as i do, but any opinion on their condemnation of the park 51 project? that kinda surprised me coming from the adl.

Whatever, man...

You're right. 1.5 billion people on earth are angry, violent, medieval little fuckers and are at war with them or at least should be. Now what....?

You make a pretty damning blanket statement and then back it up with some very questionable evidence. I suggest you get away from the google and actually go talk to some muslims. I actually used to think like you in a lot of ways, but ended up talking to some devout muslims in morocco who really changed my perspective on a number of things and made me approach the subject with fewer prejudices.

Like I said earlier, there is lots of evidence in books, the news and on the internet to prove that christians are violent, ignorant and hateful lot. And there are ten christians I could go grab off the street right now that would be pretty solid evidence that that's a crock of shit. When you close your mind like that, you will probably be able to find plenty of evidence of muslims being angry and hateful.

And I am genuinely sorry for being a pompous ass and making this discussion so confrontational. I wouldn't be doing it if I thought you were an dummy....

And you're right buck, it's strange enough for two jews to be arguing that muslims are mostly peaceful and whatnot. Never thought i'd see the day.

AzNsOuLjAh27 said:

hey can i ask you why do you think they made up global warming for? jorganic, why would they lie about the polar bears, why would they lie about over population, why would they lie about carbon, why would they make all this up, and why would they teach the children into believing global warming? why would they push global warming so hard to our children, why do they scare people into believing global warming?

This is important I need to understand why sheeple can understand global warming, but can't accept the rest of there lies.

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Off-topic, but I'll bite.

Global wealth redistribution.

Rich Western nations siphon off tremendous levels of wealth funneled through government agencies and the U.N. (they receive generous compensation for 'administrative expenses') and deliver it to third world shit-holes. Western economies are egregiously harmed thus leveling the global playing field. Meanwhile China and India laugh their assess off while they pollute up a storm.

All the feel good, 'save the planet' bullshit is to get the bunny huggers on board.

And the kiddies have to be indoctrinated with something at the government schools.

UncleBuck said:

abe: not sure if you follow the adl as much as i do, but any opinion on their condemnation of the park 51 project? that kinda surprised me coming from the adl.

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I find it strange that they would choose to make that their business mostly. I don't like the path they've gone down as an organization for years now.

Don't know about you, but I do feel like the american jewish voice gets hijacked by the adl, aipac and their agendas. I do like what j-street is doing....