Isn't Homosexuality Abnormal?

WileyCoyote said:

Wow, my thread last night asking about the normality of homosexuality was deleted. Even though it generated 15 pages of responses within about 2 hours!

So, here goes again.

After the will to survive, the will to procreate (pass ones genes on) is the greatest natural desire of all mammals. This, then, seems to indicate that homosexuality is abnormal. Or more clearly, it indicates that Mother Nature senses something wrong with homosexuals to the extent that She doesn't want them to procreate.

In fact, I submit that homosexuals are as much abnormal as pedophiles. Thank goodness that neither group procreates as much as normal heterosexuals.

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Nature dose not sense anything abnormal or normal and carries with it no prerogative for seperatisms.Nature just is,we have merely identified the intrinsic state along with the phenomena of our world as nature.As much as Nature is personified as Mother Nature it dose not give her sentience to have any sense of judgement to weed out homosexuals.Thats a preconceived notion that fails.Why are homosexuals even born then?If nature dosent "want" homosexuals to live on then they would have died out by now.The fact is that there isnt anything determining that homosexuals cannot produce offspring,they are just as fertile as the "normal" people as u so put it.
So just exactly how is that the will/instinct to procreate and preserve our species indicate that homosexuality is abnormal?Lets here a well defined statement.

BA142 said:

Why do you even care what two adults do in the privacy of their own home. I'll never get the "anti-gay" culture that is so prevalent here. Unless they're fucking each other in the ass on your couch, then why the fuck do you even care?

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Well, I would not mind that. So, you missed point about about the culture. The trappings, the lisp, the gay-doggery. Compare that to the other sheep like cultures I hate. Sex doesn't offend me. And blatant Twinks hardly confine that to the privacy of their homes.

It's is a free society where I feel free to care about what I decide.

i understand all points but u'd be surprised who around u that is really gay.... u'd never know and u'd probably respect the hell out of that person... but when u find out that they're gay u'd shun them, not respect them anymore?

Neil Patrick Harris is funny as hell in straight roles. Who knew Doogie Howser was gay?

BA142 said:

Why do you even care what two adults do in the privacy of their own home. I'll never get the "anti-gay" culture that is so prevalent here. Unless they're fucking each other in the ass on your couch, then why the fuck do you even care?

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Well put, BA!! I'm in your camp. So long as there are two consenting adults involved the relationship, I could not care less what genitalia they are packing around.

Ohh, and Wiley, you have been completely owned on this thread!

Homosexuality does not seem to aide in reproduction, the purpose of sexuality, and so it does seem curious that evolution has not filtered it out. <-- Without being an evolutionary scientist no one can make any assertions beyond this statement.

The idea that, following this, homosexuals are as abnormal as pedophiles is a non-sequitor. The logic you seem fond of bragging about is absent. Seems like a thinly veiled attempt to get UB riled up, rather than any sort of informed opinion. And UB is never so ugly as when he is riled up.

Lots of sexual acts humans like to perform do not have the goal of procreation. Anal sex, oral sex, and even masturbation would fall into the same category. Mother nature did not eliminate homosexuals ability to reproduce, which seems to be your unstated premise. Also, the opinion that homosexuality is determined by genetic makeup seems to be thoroughly unsupported.

You and UB need to keep your caterwaul in TnT where it is tolerated. It is disrespectful of the users of this sub-forum and will not be tolerated here.

The Yorkshireman said:

Define "Normal".

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Normal means something is not so weird that people feel nervous.

My friend Bill likes to take off his clothes in the bar when he has too much to drink. He doesn't look good naked and people get pretty mad. I think that most citizens would think that this activity is not normal.

My friend Kyle likes to buy drinks for strangers when he is drunk. Everybody likes this sort of behavior and don't think it is strange at all. No one tries to stop him, ever. He is acting in a normal way for an inebriated person, kind of.

I've lost my train of thought so you'll have fill in the rest. Hava nice day.

I kind of got carried away with my 'normal' rant but I will put forward that homosexuality is perfectly natural and quite appropriate for many people.

Love is hard enough to find in this world without some small minded busybodies proclaiming that love outside of official channels is wrong.

UncleBuck said:

your argument is premised on a logical fallacy.

good job, baby einstein.

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Buck, Baby Einstein has a very cool and educational product line We mustn't insult them. Forgot OP's user name but confused as to how he/she knows what Mother Nature wants? Does she speak to you when you're high?

DustBomb said:

i understand all points but u'd be surprised who around u that is really gay.... u'd never know and u'd probably respect the hell out of that person... but when u find out that they're gay u'd shun them, not respect them anymore?

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Of course not. Are you intentional missing my point? And are you assuming my orientation, are you? I respect people that don't join pin-headed gangs and affiliations of any ilk and muster.

Heisenberg said:

Homosexuality does not seem to aide in reproduction, the purpose of sexuality, and so it does seem curious that evolution has not filtered it out. <-- Without being an evolutionary scientist no one can make any assertions beyond this statement.

The idea that, following this, homosexuals are as abnormal as pedophiles is a non-sequitor. The logic you seem fond of bragging about is absent. Seems like a thinly veiled attempt to get UB riled up, rather than any sort of informed opinion. And UB is never so ugly as when he is riled up.

Lots of sexual acts humans like to perform do not have the goal of procreation. Anal sex, oral sex, and even masturbation would fall into the same category. Mother nature did not eliminate homosexuals ability to reproduce, which seems to be your unstated premise. Also, the opinion that homosexuality is determined by genetic makeup seems to be thoroughly unsupported.

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Right. We can say the same thing about compassion beyond family. What good does it do for the family tree to help other DNA lines. Why do we have this universal altruism? There is no Darwinism angle, is there? Why has not evolution stamped that out? It's the latest research that confirms what we know already. The good of the many. Safety in numbers. Defensive depth in leadership. So obvious that evolution is humans is more than strict survival.

Compassion is good for society. We laud it and praise it. Women and men select mates with compassion as a criteria.

Human love and the desire for partnering for pleasure is our genetic destiny, like compassion. Sex is just sex. It can also be used for procreation. Inconceivable, surely for our earliest ancestors, the idea that this sex act could result possibly, in the death of a women and the birth of child many moons later???

I'm quite sure, that revelation came well after the discovery of the pleasure, which was the first night. BTW, pedophilia to me is the same concept. Entire societies have thrived on it. It's just condemned in modern times and given an ugly name.

In Sparta and among the Althenians, for example, it was considered the greatest love. We now have an ugly culture in the west and strange attempts are made to shield and judge, which can make for an ugly culture.

Heisenberg said:

You and UB need to keep your caterwaul in TnT where it is tolerated. It is disrespectful of the users of this sub-forum and will not be tolerated here.

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You're right, I apologize for my conduct in the thread, and in previous ones thus far regarding the issues of homosexuality or Islam or, well... spirituality in general.. To be perfectly honest, I really don't understand much about either of them and, they frighten me, which is why I tend to make ignorant claims that can't be backed up...

I would also like to take this opportunity to apologize to UB, Heis as well as Pad, for disrespecting them and their service to education and science. I am ashamed of myself.

Wednesday said:

Buck, Baby Einstein has a very cool and educational product line We mustn't insult them. Forgot OP's user name but confused as to how he/she knows what Mother Nature wants? Does she speak to you when you're high?

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Mother Nature is just a "nickname", if you will, for the natural things that take place in the world based upon observable evidence...i.e. science...

To say that Mother Nature "wants" a certain thing to happen is just another way of saying that "by the observable and intuitive properties of science, this thing is obvious".

Anybody who really thinks that I've ever implied that Mother Nature is a living being who "wants" or "desires", is so baked that they shouldn't be reading on this web site...

WileyCoyote, you're a stupid c*nt, but I'll defend with my life your right to be a stupid c*nt on the internet.

Maybe mother nature figured there was too many HUMANS, and so started reducing their desire to procreate, but still gave them something to fuck. Pedophilia is wrong because a pedophile must cause terrible psychological harm to a child in order to fulfill their desires. Gay dudes just have to find other dudes who like dudes too, and maybe some dudes that they know will show up too.

Doer, you're a c*nt as well. Societies haven't thrived on pedophilia. Pedophilia is an attraction to children before sexual maturity. Having sex with a willing 14 year old is wierd and immoral, but nonetheless has two willing, sexually mature participants. Having sex with a nine year old who you bought a baseball glove and told that if they ever tell anyone santa-clause will die, that's really horrible and I've never heard of a society that has tollerated it that wasn't led by a bunch of lecherous old gnarly pieces of sh*t. I'm assuming that you did not mean sex with kids is is simply "taboo"

Not very well read huh? As I said, today we have an ugly society that defines pedophila as a certain age It's a society that defines with smug horror, the way you do. It's a society that is based on warpped morality of the religious majority. It's Arbitrary this pedophilia definition and defined at the state level. And sexual maturity is moving down in the poorer communities due perhaps to deficiencies in diet. It's a society that is moving backwards in a lot of ways. For example, it's a society that produces people that can only communicate by name calling. Ugly.

Rascality Afoot said:

WileyCoyote, you're a stupid c*nt, but I'll defend with my life your right to be a stupid c*nt on the internet.

Maybe mother nature figured there was too many HUMANS, and so started reducing their desire to procreate, but still gave them something to fuck. Pedophilia is wrong because a pedophile must cause terrible psychological harm to a child in order to fulfill their desires. Gay dudes just have to find other dudes who like dudes too, and maybe some dudes that they know will show up too.

Doer, you're a c*nt as well. Societies haven't thrived on pedophilia. Pedophilia is an attraction to children before sexual maturity. Having sex with a willing 14 year old is wierd and immoral, but nonetheless has two willing, sexually mature participants. Having sex with a nine year old who you bought a baseball glove and told that if they ever tell anyone santa-clause will die, that's really horrible and I've never heard of a society that has tollerated it that wasn't led by a bunch of lecherous old gnarly pieces of sh*t. I'm assuming that you did not mean sex with kids is is simply "taboo"

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You're just blind to Natural Selection...but I do LIKE being compared to a cunt......hell yeah!!!...A very tight and slick one...

WileyCoyote said:

Mother Nature is just a "nickname", if you will, for the natural things that take place in the world based upon observable evidence...i.e. science...

To say that Mother Nature "wants" a certain thing to happen is just another way of saying that "by the observable and intuitive properties of science, this thing is obvious".

Anybody who really thinks that I've ever implied that Mother Nature is a living being who "wants" or "desires", is so baked that they shouldn't be reading on this web site...

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To break down your argument;

1. "mother nature" (science) "doesn't like" homosexuals - the evidence you use to support this is simply because they can't reproduce [with each other]

2. that means they're unnatural

3. unnatural equates to bad

4. therefore, homosexuality is bad


premise 1 - sterile heterosexual people can't reproduce, yet genetic conditions exist in the gene pool that render some people sterile from birth, homosexuals can in fact reproduce, and heterosexual people produce homosexual children

premise 2 - polyester, glasses, sunscreen, all "unnatural" in the same sense of the word you're using.

premise 3 - "Natural" and "unnatural" describe words in nature, nature encompasses everything you know. So again, you're using the incorrect word, you probably mean "abnormal", and if that's the case, so what? You do plenty of "abnormal" things as well I'm sure. There is nothing wrong with being homosexual, even if one did choose it.

You have yet to show any evidence to support any of the premises you've come up with.

One who supports your theory would also deny equal rights to sterile couples or individuals because they can't reproduce, deny equal rights and likely discriminate against those that chose to have sex without the purpose of conceiving a child or those that decided to wear a condom.

Why does "unnatural" or "abnormal" automatically equate to "bad"?

WileyCoyote said:

Wow, my thread last night asking about the normality of homosexuality was deleted. Even though it generated 15 pages of responses within about 2 hours!

So, here goes again.

After the will to survive, the will to procreate (pass ones genes on) is the greatest natural desire of all mammals. This, then, seems to indicate that homosexuality is abnormal. Or more clearly, it indicates that Mother Nature senses something wrong with homosexuals to the extent that She doesn't want them to procreate.

In fact, I submit that homosexuals are as much abnormal as pedophiles. Thank goodness that neither group procreates as much as normal heterosexuals.

Click to expand...

WileyCoyote said:

Mother Nature is just a "nickname", if you will, for the natural things that take place in the world based upon observable evidence...i.e. science...

To say that Mother Nature "wants" a certain thing to happen is just another way of saying that "by the observable and intuitive properties of science, this thing is obvious".

Anybody who really thinks that I've ever implied that Mother Nature is a living being who "wants" or "desires", is so baked that they shouldn't be reading on this web site...

Click to expand...

I wasn't baked. I was reading what you said.

WileyCoyote said:

You're just blind to Natural Selection...but I do LIKE being compared to a cunt......hell yeah!!!...A very tight and slick one...

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Please address posts 52 and 53

WileyCoyote said:

You're right, I apologize for my conduct in the thread, and in previous ones thus far regarding the issues of homosexuality or Islam or, well... spirituality in general.. To be perfectly honest, I really don't understand much about either of them and, they frighten me, which is why I tend to make ignorant claims that can't be backed up...

I would also like to take this opportunity to apologize to UB, Heis as well as Pad, for disrespecting them and their service to education and science. I am ashamed of myself.

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you don't need to apologize to me, i had fun. but i will point out that your apology, warranted or not, makes you a bigger man and gains you lots of respect in everyone's eyes.

not everyone is mature enough to apologize for stuff, even though like i said, i don't feel you owe anyone an apology. we're just messing around on the interwebz.