it doesn't matter until it effects you

fitch303

Well-Known Member
Sorry for that.

I was referencing someone comparing person A who kills their pet because they're cruel and fucked up to the people who were negligent and caused this oil spill resulting in thousands of animals dieing. one had intent and the other was negligent. they are not the same under the law.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10359120.stm


BP CEO Tony Hayward criticised for yacht trip




BP CEO Tony Hayward has faced fresh criticism for taking time off to go sailing with his son instead of dealing with the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
The White House said the move was one of a "long line of PR gaffes and mistakes" by Mr Hayward.
Environmental groups said the Isle of Wight outing was "insulting" to those affected by the environmental disaster.
BP defended Mr Hayward, saying it was his first day off since the spill began after a .......................
 

fitch303

Well-Known Member
I don't mind that so much, he's the ceo's not a blue collar rig worker. Do you expect him to be out on the beach cleaning up with the grunts? it's a bad PR move but I don't get to upset over that. still a shitty situation though
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
No this is not Obama's Katrina...Stop "TRYING" to blame everything on Obama....Remember the Repukes always wanted to DRILL BABY DRILL...I watched a Republican actually apologize to BP for Obama making sure that they paid up..WTF....all thru the campaign season against Obama and Mccain all you heard was the Repukes singing Drill Baby Drill...now look
People keep blaming Bush/Cheney...

Deep water drilling legislation was passed under CLINTON. Essentially companies have to pay a 17% royalty on oil but that is waived if the drilling rig is a deep water one.

So lets drop the past partisan BS and focus on what Obama is actually doing to assist in the containment of the hole and the spill. Blaming Bush really wont solve anything.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10359120.stm


BP CEO Tony Hayward criticised for yacht trip




BP CEO Tony Hayward has faced fresh criticism for taking time off to go sailing with his son instead of dealing with the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
The White House said the move was one of a "long line of PR gaffes and mistakes" by Mr Hayward.
Environmental groups said the Isle of Wight outing was "insulting" to those affected by the environmental disaster.
BP defended Mr Hayward, saying it was his first day off since the spill began after a .......................
I dont have a problem with this. Over the past 60 days Obama has played golf like 8 times, thrown a parties for members of the Beatles and other VIP's, taken his wife out on multiple dates, etc...

Hayward should not cloister himself because he is the head of BP. Also, if you are running a multi-trillion dollar company from your board room you are probably not likely to be privy to all of the details of one rig among hundreds in your operations. He was not the right guy to haul before congress. However, him being dragged in front of congress was all about theatre and had nothing to do with fact finding.

That being said, I honestly believe that BP is doing everything in their power to stop the leak. It is costing them tens of millions of dollars per day not to.

The president should be getting legislation out of the way (such as the law of 1920 that only allows American crews on vessels), declaring the whole southern coast a disaster area to allow monetary relief for the citizens, partnering with BP to assist them in any way to get the leak closed while following a parallel route talking to all the other private oil companies and any other expert to see if there are alternatives BP is not looking at.

This is much more like Iran for Obama than Katrina. It is a lingering ongoing problem that he is relatively powerless to affect in any substantial way.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
i have a problem with obama as well.

"in charge of everything" means in charge of everything. whether you are aware of it or not, YOU are responsible for it all. that's why you are the boss. :)

when your house is on fire you don't go to the movies because the fire department showed up. do you?
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
i have a problem with obama as well.

"in charge of everything" means in charge of everything. whether you are aware of it or not, YOU are responsible for it all. that's why you are the boss. :)

when your house is on fire you don't go to the movies because the fire department showed up. do you?
I would say the president of the USA more so than the CEO of BP.

My perspective comes from an argument I had about Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc... still having a private life while doing the job. The president is really never off the clock unless he is unconscious on an operating table or dead. So IMO, just as Bush took vacations I have no problem with Obama taking vacations.

Problem with Obama is that he is no more effective when back from vacation than while on them...
 

Fullmoon kid

Active Member
Sorry for that.

I was referencing someone comparing person A who kills their pet because they're cruel and fucked up to the people who were negligent and caused this oil spill resulting in thousands of animals dieing. one had intent and the other was negligent. they are not the same under the law.
No worries bud , oddly enough..or not , the person i was refering to in the post didnt see fit to reply , thanks for your civil reply in what many would have turned into a hissy fit , rep added dude.
 

Smirgen

Well-Known Member
Sorry for that.

I was referencing someone comparing person A who kills their pet because they're cruel and fucked up to the people who were negligent and caused this oil spill resulting in thousands of animals dieing. one had intent and the other was negligent. they are not the same under the law.
What you were trying to do is split hairs, You admit that BP was negligent, reports show that there was negligence on BPs part , BP's negligence has caused thousands of land and sea animals to DIE and there will be thousands more dying in the year to come, now google people who have gone to jail because of animal negligence, In many case their animals don't have to die for them to be given jail time.

What do these two scenarios have in common willful negligence and death of animals.

So I reiterate someone needs to go to jail for the enormous loss of life.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
So I reiterate someone needs to go to jail for the enormous loss of life.
So we just make up new laws and throw people in jail based on public opinion? We should seize company assets and have the government do what they want with them on their whim? Welcome to Venezuela...
 

Smirgen

Well-Known Member
So we just make up new laws and throw people in jail based on public opinion? We should seize company assets and have the government do what they want with them on their whim? Welcome to Venezuela...
If there are no laws on the books to cover this enormous loss of life and Wildlife habitat due to willful negligence then yes we should make some new laws.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
People keep blaming Bush/Cheney...

Deep water drilling legislation was passed under CLINTON. Essentially companies have to pay a 17% royalty on oil but that is waived if the drilling rig is a deep water one.

So lets drop the past partisan BS and focus on what Obama is actually doing to assist in the containment of the hole and the spill. Blaming Bush really wont solve anything.
Sometimes you must remember how you got there in order not to return again

Facts you can check

Bush MMS adopted regulation stating drillers are "in the best position to determine the environmental effects of its proposed activity." The Washington Post on May 25 states that the actions taken by MMS, "are shaped in part by a 2005 regulation it adopted that assumes oil and gas companies can best evaluate the environmental effects of their operations.

In April 2008, Bush MMS loosened rules requiring blowout plan. The Associated Press reported on May 5 that a "rule change two years ago by the federal agency that regulates offshore oil rigs allowed BP to avoid filing a plan specifically for handling a major spill from an uncontrolled blowout at its Deepwater Horizon project." AP further reported: "The MMS rule change, made in April 2008, says that Gulf rig operators are required to file a blowout scenario only if one of five conditions applies.


Bush MMS failed to respond to 2004 warning about vital piece of blowout preventer. The Wall Street Journal reported on May 3 that "[f]ederal regulators learned in a 2004 study that a vital piece of oil-drilling safety equipment may not function in deep-water seas but did nothing to bolster industry requirements. The equipment, called shear rams, is supposed to seal off out-of-control oil and gas wells by pinching the pipe closed and cutting it." The Journal further reported that "[e]xperts theorize the rams may have failed to work as expected in the Deepwater Horizon disaster."


Bush MMS ignored warnings about faulty cementing in wells. The Associated Press reported on May 24 that numerous MMS reports identified "poor cement job" as the cause of offshore accidents, including incidents that took place in 2005 and 2007, "[y]et federal regulators give drillers a free hand in this crucial safety step." AP noted that rig owner Transocean and "independent experts" have pointed to "faulty cement work" as a possible cause of the blowout, and that new rules "in the works long before the Deepwater Horizon" took effect June 3, which "take a conservative watch-and-wait approach and demand only routines already carried out around the industry: a management program with monitoring and diagnostic testing."

WSJ: In 2003, Bush MMS decided not to require last-resort shut-off device. ABC News reported on April 30 that in 2000 MMS "issued a safety alert that called added layers of backup 'an essential component of a deepwater drilling system.'" However, according to the Wall Street Journal, "The industry argued against" mandating a remote-control shut-off switch that serves as "last-resort protection against underwater spills," and "y 2003, U.S. regulators decided remote-controlled safeguards needed more study. A report commissioned by the Minerals Management Service said 'acoustic systems are not recommended because they tend to be very costly.'" The Journal noted that the Deepwater Horizon rig did not have a remote-control device, which is required "in two major oil-producing countries, Norway and Brazil


Bush issued executive order to end ban on offshore drilling. In a June 14, 2008, President Bush announced the executive order he had issued to end the prohibition on drilling in the Outer Continental Shelf: "So today, I've issued a memorandum to lift the executive prohibition on oil exploration in the OCS. With this action, the executive branch's restrictions on this exploration have been cleared away." Bush's executive order was meant to prompt congressional action needed to fully rescind the ban, and he noted, "This means that the only thing standing between the American people and these vast oil resources is action from the U.S. Congress


Bush asked Congress to ease ban on offshore drilling. In a June 18, 2008, President Bush said "First, we should expand American oil production by increasing access to the Outer Continental Shelf, or OCS. Experts believe that the OCS could produce about 18 billion barrels of oil." In the September 6, 2008, presidential Bush said: "Congress should open the way for environmentally responsible offshore exploration on the Outer Continental Shelf. Experts believe that these areas could eventually produce nearly 10 years' worth of America's current annual oil production.


Yes Obama has and is going to make mistakes....One of the biggest was running for POTUS after Bush phuck this country so bad...
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Obama has had 15 months in office to clean up the Minerals Management services... You can try to blame bush into infinity but as time passes it seems less and less logical.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Obama has had 15 months in office to clean up the Minerals Management services... You can try to blame bush into infinity but as time passes it seems less and less logical.
like I said Obama has and will make mistakes....but the fact remains he came into "a world of $hit" !!!!!!! People bashed the man even before office...Had to defend stupid shit like being a Kenyan born muslim, hitler loving, Socialist , etc etc coming from people who too stupid to really understand what any of it means....sooooo when people start to bytch and moan I say one thing ...https://www.rollitup.org/politics/278307-if-you-voted-bush-stfu.html
 

tony42086

Member
Here's the problem IMO: everywhere you look, we seem to elect/hire the dumbest, laziest, most incompetent people to positions of power. It seems everywhere you look incompetent morons are in charge. Hell, just look at your boss. Can you honestly say he/she is deserving of that title they hold? IMO we get too caught up with people that are excellent linguists. When push comes to shove, they just use their gift of gab to throw smoke screens at the general public, redirecting the point at hand. I feel as though far too many people either don't care, or get lost in all the BS, as it can be hard to sift through at times. I don't want my elected officials to be linguists, THEY SHOULD BE SMART, ANALYTICAL THINKERS. I'm not saying they should be totally incapable of communicating, but shit, the focal point should be there ability to think analytically, to problem solve at a level that's not common to you and I. Those are the merits we should focus on when we're putting these assholes in charge!!!! Over a month and we still haven't solved this problem yet? WTF does BP have nothing but the Bush family working for them???????
 

fitch303

Well-Known Member
lets start by banning lawyers from holding office, all they're good for is finding ways to get around them law and writing new laws that are so complicated that it requires other lawyers to be elected to say "I have the experience and know how to read this law that says it's illegal to run a red light that's 300 pages long"
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
like I said Obama has and will make mistakes....but the fact remains he came into "a world of $hit" !!!!!!! People bashed the man even before office...Had to defend stupid shit like being a Kenyan born muslim, hitler loving, Socialist , etc etc coming from people who too stupid to really understand what any of it means....sooooo when people start to bytch and moan I say one thing ...https://www.rollitup.org/politics/278307-if-you-voted-bush-stfu.html
So you want it both ways... Bush was responsible when Bush was in office and now Bush is responsible 15 months after Obama took office.

I thought Obama was going to fix everything? When is it his responsibility? When is he going to stop pointing fingers and actually govern as president?

Again, the argument is getting weak. Either Obama is incompetent at getting things changes or he has no intention of changing things. And since on one hand he loans Petro-Bras 2 billion dollars to do oil drilling even more risky than the horizon at the same time he is putting a moratorium on American drilling rigs I have to ask myself that question....
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
So you want it both ways... Bush was responsible when Bush was in office and now Bush is responsible 15 months after Obama took office.

I thought Obama was going to fix everything? When is it his responsibility? When is he going to stop pointing fingers and actually govern as president?

Again, the argument is getting weak. Either Obama is incompetent at getting things changes or he has no intention of changing things. And since on one hand he loans Petro-Bras 2 billion dollars to do oil drilling even more risky than the horizon at the same time he is putting a moratorium on American drilling rigs I have to ask myself that question....
Wow I see you get your info from Gin Beck...learn to do your own reserch...First found out how this loan is applied ...Obama did not issue an executive order for this to be done..it was not needed...This action was done by the board of directors of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. The bank intends to loan up to $2 billion to finance exports to the Brazilian oil company Petróleo Brasileiro S.A., known as Petrobras...Are you still with me ????? Now guess what ....at the time the Bank’s Board consisted of three Republicans and two Democrats, all of whom were appointed by George W. Bush. Now the banks chairman and president is Fred Hochberg..I know I know you don't have a clue who that is and why..Obama appointed Hochberg to the Ex-Im Bank on April 20, a week after the vote...Check it yourself ...


Note: people remember when you hear something ... take the time to do the research and find out the facts...Damn need bong now bongsmilie:eyesmoke:
 
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