It's A Fuct World

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
after this harvest i have to move my setup, so when i do, ill try out some simple DIY hydro, i have heard quite a lot of good shit about hydro, its just a mystery to me, and what humans dont know scares them. I am human. Hydro is a mystery to me. Therefore Hydro scares me, no but honestly it sounds awesome, harvest every 2 weeks is beyond insane, if i ever could do that i would, i will seriously read this thread in a couple of months after i harvest, until then im subbed
Not sure what you mean by 'DIY' hydro. It's all kinda DIY. For your first hydro system, I strongly recommend a flood & drain type, the whole of which is commercially available- and works better than anything you'll gin up yourself. You'll spend a few bux getting up & going, but it will repay you rapidly. I'd make more specific recommendations, but I don't know what sort of a space you have to work with, so I'd just be spinning my wheels a bit. Let me know when you get closer to set-up time.

fucking shit balls, i got one oz offa three shitty sativas the first time i grew
In the SoG method, if you control temp & humidity properly as well as provide sufficient light intensity (50W/sq ft of HPS is a coarse guide i.e. a 400HPS will give 8 sq ft of solid buds) and grow about 2.5 plants/sq ft, you should be getting .5-.75oz per plant. For the example of a 400 over 8sq ft, with about 20 plants, you should pull about 10-15oz, presuming a decent yielding indica dominant hybrid. If you follow the method set forth in my 'Harvest Every 2 Weeks' thread, basically 4 sequential flood & drain systems, you'll get that yield every 2 weeks, in perpetuity.

Maybe not totally relevant, but made me giggle ^^
View attachment 2334892
Heh. :)
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
No worries, happy to help.

However, let me warn you & everyone else- growing dope can be a real ball & chain. Once you fire up a grow op, you don't get holidays and if you slack off (like I'm doing right now), you can wreck the lot.

Soooo... I guess I better get my ass in gear...
 

mountainboy

Well-Known Member
Al, I'm sure you have mentioned it b4,but I was wondering what your thoughts are on using the lucas formula in my e&f sog set up?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Al, I'm sure you have mentioned it b4,but I was wondering what your thoughts are on using the lucas formula in my e&f sog set up?
You're right, I have mentioned it- and I think within the last 3 pages of this thread. My advice on using Lucas is, quite simply, don't. Use the nutrient mfr's instructions.
 

mountainboy

Well-Known Member
You're right, I have mentioned it- and I think within the last 3 pages of this thread. My advice on using Lucas is, quite simply, don't. Use the nutrient mfr's instructions.
Al, sorry about that. I hate being one of those guys thats to lazy to read previous posts, I honestly havent been on in awhile and just skipped to the last page. I will go back and read what you said,and on top of that I won't use the lucas formula..thanks Al.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
No biggie. I know that these threads get stupidly long, but I do aim to keep the signal to noise ratio fairly high.

The nut with employing non-standard mixtures of nutes is that you don't really know what NPK ratios you're winding up with- and you're chucking years of the nutrient mfr's R&D work out the window. Nute mfrs do this work to provide a product that yields predictable, reliable results. That's nothing but good for them and you. If you repeatedly get good results, you'll be coming back for more of their product.

One thing I have encountered over and over as the years go by is that growers have a tendency to try to re-invent the wheel- and they do so without any evidence that what they're doing will yield a better result than was obtained by expensive, protracted trials by the mfr's R&D department. While less well documented, there's a number of end-user growers who have done all this before and gotten it to work well- and invariably, those growers are using products as their mfrs have intended.
 

mountainboy

Well-Known Member
Again Al thank you. I searched the thread for "lucas" and found you had mentioned it several times. I do want to let you know I fallow your advise to the letter "no magic sauces or BS,just my nutes and h2o2 and a shit ton of light...lol, I only asked about the LF because it seemed simple and I could save a little on the cost of nutes. I may just switch to what you use anyway,its canna right?, I might as well I'm such a copy cat," Al want to be" anyway I might as well use your nutes too...lol
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
LF is really very complex in practise, especially compared to 2-part nutes like Canna.

When you consider the cost inputs in a grow op, nutes are not high on the list. Electricity & media are on top, even if using pricey nutes. Yes, I do use Canna, even though it is significantly more expensive than most other brands- but you get proven reliability. If you're doing things right, the value of your yields will eclipse even electricity costs, by a very significant margin. Nute cost barely figures at the end of the day.

The greatest sin in running an op is poor availability. May be sad to say it, but your smokers will opt for poorer quality buds from someone else if they're always available. You can afford to spend up on inputs that increase the likelihood that your op will produce well predictably, particularly on something as comparatively inexpensive as nutes.
 

famine

Well-Known Member
Hey Al.

I have read almost all of your posts in your long threads. I have learned a great deal from you, many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I am in the middle of expanding and changing my grow room, to try to mimic your setup.
I will be using 3 3'x4' tables under 600W HPS in BlockBuster Reflectors.
My first table is up and running and I am attempting construction around it.
I will be putting the girls in 35 5"x5"x7" square pots using Rockwool Mini-cubes. ( 1 cm)

What flood schedule would you recommend for this media? I started at 2 floods a day but they were looking a little droopy so I backed off to 1 a day.
They are 3 weeks in and about finished stretching. Everything is looking very good except for a few stunted plants that weren't strong clones to begin with.
Should I move back to 2 floods a day now or at any point in the future?

Also do you think it would be OK to use an oversized rez (30 G) and use it to flood 2 tables? Flooding about 30 mins apart.

Thanks Again
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Hey Al.

I have read almost all of your posts in your long threads. I have learned a great deal from you, many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I am in the middle of expanding and changing my grow room, to try to mimic your setup.
I will be using 3 3'x4' tables under 600W HPS in BlockBuster Reflectors.
My first table is up and running and I am attempting construction around it.
I will be putting the girls in 35 5"x5"x7" square pots using Rockwool Mini-cubes. ( 1 cm)

What flood schedule would you recommend for this media? I started at 2 floods a day but they were looking a little droopy so I backed off to 1 a day.
They are 3 weeks in and about finished stretching. Everything is looking very good except for a few stunted plants that weren't strong clones to begin with.
Should I move back to 2 floods a day now or at any point in the future?

Also do you think it would be OK to use an oversized rez (30 G) and use it to flood 2 tables? Flooding about 30 mins apart.

Thanks Again
RW mini cubes behave very similarly to RW floc, which is to say that they saturate (too) easily, which drives all the oxygen out of the medium. As you know, this will damage if not destroy roots. By the time you see droopy plants, root damage has already happened. The plants will be significantly set back in development due to root system damage.

It is between difficult & impossible to recover a damaged root system in flowering plants. Once the plant is in flower, the clock's ticking. That plant's going to be finished growing & will start dying off after 8-9wks of flowering. Whatever yield you get will be closely correlated to the health of the rootmass during flowering. When you harvest poorly developed plants, there's an excellent chance you will find an underdeveloped or partially rotted rootmass, depending upon when in the flowering cycle that the overwatering occurred. If the plants have consistently been overwatered since the beginning of flowering, the entire rootmass will be sparse and underdeveloped. If the overwatering occurred later in flowering, you will find a more developed rootmass, but a significant part of the rootmass will be tan/brown (ie. dead).

Overwatering damage is one of the most common failures I see in grow ops.

It is necessary to limit watering in RW to only the amount of water that the plant & evaporation can remove at least half of in 24hrs. This is to say that you must not water again until half of the water held in the medium has been removed by the plant or evaporation. In most cases with RW, this means limiting watering to 1x/day if not 1x/2days, or even less, particularly with very small (young) plants.

I stopped using RW floc in my flowering plants simply because it holds way too much water for SoG flowering plants, which never get particularly large. Plants that don't get very large can't remove a lot of water from the medium. If your plants can't remove a lot of water from the medium, you can't water very often. If you can't water very often, you can't take advantage of introducing oxygen to the rootmass via that dissolved in the nute solution, either by an airstone or H2O2.

I've been using Fytocell media for my flower plants for some years now- works so much better than RW, though it is necessary to pack about 25mm of RW floc in the pot bottoms to keep the Fytocell granules from escaping the pot drain holes. Have also trialled some Sure-To-Grow 'Hail' cubes, which perform about as well. If you can't get either of those, try perlite with a 25mm layer of RW floc tightly packed in the pot bottoms.

I hope you're talking about using more than one 600HPS over your 3x 3x4 trays. Should be 1x 600 per 3x4 tray.

I prefer to use 4 trays & 4 separate tanks; this give me the ability to run a different nute mix in tank/tray 3, which handles plants in weeks 5-6. For week 5 in tank 3, I use Canna PK13-14 at 1ml/L & Flores at 3ml/L. At the end of wk 5, that tank is dumped and renewed with a mix containing just Flores at 4ml/L, the same as all the other tanks.

Using 1 res per tray also has the advantage of limiting the spread of any root diseases to only one batch (though with properly applied H2O2, you shouldn't have any root diseases) as well as limits the amount of damage that will be done by an individual pump or timer failure.
 

ringlead3r

Active Member
how do you notice salt build up by reading the res tank? Also, how much ppm should a sativa dominant flowering plant take before noticing nutrient burn. suppose someone was doing nft and wanted to know what all could cause the salt build up. where would he go to find out the answer. or maybe you know =P
 

Raphael Mechoulam

Well-Known Member
No worries, happy to help.

However, let me warn you & everyone else- growing dope can be a real ball & chain. Once you fire up a grow op, you don't get holidays and if you slack off (like I'm doing right now), you can wreck the lot.

Soooo... I guess I better get my ass in gear...
But it is SO much better than sitting in a fucking cubicle 8 hours a day, surrounded by idiots that you'd never voluntarily spend time with. Depending on the timing, I can get away for a quick 3 day holiday without a problem so far. Even when I can't, the sleeping late, no commute, playing on the net all day and mid-day tennis with buddies makes this a sweeter gig than most. I know what you mean, though, I don't love my girls as much as I used to now that the op is dialed in and it's the same routines all the time. I still act like I feel the same, they can't seem to tell the difference (kind of reminds me of my marriages)...

P.S. By the by, switching to Canna aqua flores next run with PK 13/14. Not Cannaboost though! That shit is more expensive than AN's stuff...
 

Rick Ratlin

Active Member
Al, a while back you mentioned that I should run cool tubes right through summer. I don't have a cool airspace to bring air through the tube, so what is the max temperature of air that I can safely push through the cool tube?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
how do you notice salt build up by reading the res tank? Also, how much ppm should a sativa dominant flowering plant take before noticing nutrient burn. suppose someone was doing nft and wanted to know what all could cause the salt build up. where would he go to find out the answer. or maybe you know =P
...how do you notice salt buildup? Not sure what you mean.

Sativas are not as heavy feeders as indica dominants, but can operate in similar TDS strengths with no problem. Run them at 900-1100ppm & she'll be right.

But it is SO much better than sitting in a fucking cubicle 8 hours a day, surrounded by idiots that you'd never voluntarily spend time with.
Fair comment.

Depending on the timing, I can get away for a quick 3 day holiday without a problem so far. Even when I can't, the sleeping late, no commute, playing on the net all day and mid-day tennis with buddies makes this a sweeter gig than most. I know what you mean, though, I don't love my girls as much as I used to now that the op is dialed in and it's the same routines all the time. I still act like I feel the same, they can't seem to tell the difference (kind of reminds me of my marriages)...
I have all the widgets necessary to accomplish automated refilling of my tanks, but watering clones is something you can really only do by hand. With some planning, I could probably find 3 days away between planting out a batch of clones & cutting the next batch, but it sorta throws the rhythm of the system out a bit and tanks don't really need attention for a 3 day absence.

P.S. By the by, switching to Canna aqua flores next run with PK 13/14. Not Cannaboost though! That shit is more expensive than AN's stuff...
Agree, Cannaboost is stupidly expensive. Someday when I get rich & famous, I might fuck with it. Probably not, tho.

Hey Al, what is your views on seaweed supplements in general other than the electrolyte debate?
Seaweed supps are OK to use in soil, never in hydroponics.

Al, a while back you mentioned that I should run cool tubes right through summer. I don't have a cool airspace to bring air through the tube, so what is the max temperature of air that I can safely push through the cool tube?
The temperature of the air being drawn into the cooltubes isn't terribly critical, though they'll naturally be more effective at keeping the temp of the HPS bottles down with cooler intake temps, which extends tube life. The point of cooltubes though, is not mainly to cool the HPS bottles, it's to get the heat away from the plants. Even 45C intake air will get most of the heat from the tubes away from the plants. However, if the ductwork is single-wall aluminium, high air temps will tend to heat up the ducts, which will heat up the room air. In that case, you can wrap the duct tubes in an insulation blanket of some sort (hdwe stores should have some) to prevent transfer of heat into the room's airmass.
 

butcher73

Member
hey Al B Sorry to just blow in here mate , but ive read your SoG and thats a common practice that i was shown and works great , just one ? is why do you use a 400 hps n not a 400 MH ? your knowledge is great as ive picked up alot of pointers :)
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
hey Al B Sorry to just blow in here mate , but ive read your SoG and thats a common practice that i was shown and works great , just one ?
What's a common practise you've been shown? Don't know what you're referring to.

is why do you use a 400 hps n not a 400 MH ?
I happened to have a 400HPS lying around when I set the op up about 13 yrs ago and found it worked fine for my mums. In fact, since I actually want a bit of stretch in my mums as I cut tall clones, a 400HPS is just fine for mums.

your knowledge is great as ive picked up alot of pointers :smile:
Thanks, hope things keep working well for you. :)
 

butcher73

Member
Sorry i meant the sog set up , one other thing is u memtioned the frames you used are 25 mm alloy box n "not steal" why not go with steel n weld it up ? Can u PM on this site :/
 
Top