Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Some of us do this for very good reason.
Jack Herer's CCHH 2012 Initiative: www.youthfederation.com/cchhi2012.html
- Thread starter Matt Rize
- Start date
Ernst
Well-Known Member
I want everyone to understand I am sincerely serious. Enough with the lambasting.
I have nothing but the best intentions when it comes to exploring the Five Things. Be it a solid proposal or a mere passing concept it is important that we examine all the avenues of cannabis legalization for 2012 so that we avoid a future schism like we just experienced with the 2010 election cycle in our Cannabis-Community.
We never had time to debate what could have been back in 2008 and 2009 like we do now . It is vitally important we do debate it this and come to consensus for the 2012 election cycle.
One ALL-IN-ONE initiative might pass or it might fail and the data cannot tell us nor guarantee us what the voters will end up doing. We saw that already with prop 19..
The prop-19 people really did their research I know. Yet, in the end the vote fell along emotional lines.. How people felt about it that day, They found doubt in prop-19 and I don't blame them.
It's not too far fetched to think that separating and simplifying our desired goals of legalizing cannabis for the people, establishing commerce under legal protections and setting drug policy will be a wise way to make progress.
One of the two initiatives might pass..The Business act or the legalization act. Maybe the voters are all for people having to buy cannabis and don't want people growing it. Maybe they don't want stores but like that people can grow their own and maybe the people are alright with the age being 18 rather than 21.
I remember listening to the Prop-19 people comforting us that their data was the right intelligence and that prop-19 was the best way. Well it failed.
It failed and I am one who does not want a second failure while industry gains more at the same time the average citizen is still subject to fines and prison.
Our communities became polarized over prop 19. People were ostracized over differing opinions. Why, even today I saw a cannabis site that is echoing the call for vague punishment of so called "Cannabis Traitors" It is just ridiculous that we allow our efforts to be squandered away with hate.
I'd like to be done with having to fight the No people out there and then battle the Yes people in our electronic communities.
Anyway.. I can leave this thread and we can host this exercise another site if my influence is inappropriate for RIU.. Just let me know. I just hope the readers see the point of my complaining on short notice.
What can anyone do but to speak out when our own behavior is partly to blame for our loss in 2010 and may impact 2012.
So it's not just this guy and it is not just right now but it is a complaint of all our electronic committees and all our Canna-People that we do not try to help each other. .
I owe Jack Herer people a debt for the privilege of conversation in this thread so, my site is your site. Come set up and update.
It takes a lot of effort to keep on keeping on.. Together we can make the journey to the next vote informed and unified!
I salute all who are contributing and supporting the efforts.
Thanks for reading how I feel on the lambasting of our people because of differing opinions.
I am sensitive because of experiences over our Prop-19 vote that is true so, please grant me some space.
We need every voice, every thought and our best efforts. I certainly have room to improve and am making the effort daily.
After all this is more about Canna-Freedom for future generations than it is for us alive today.
in time, it stands to reason that Cannabis will fade in the public's eye and like Holland and Portugal Teen use will drop and folks will hardly think twice when passing a side-walk cafe where people smoke cannabis or consume cannabis products but until then we face setting the example of doing legalizing right.
I happen to think Simple is better than complex. That if we are to gamble on a second roll of the dice we should place our bets conservatively by not supporting one all or nothing initiative in 2012.
If the people are okay with legalizing for the people then keep that separate and unencumbered by additional language for establishing industry or drug policy
If the voters vote down legalizing for one the others aspect may still have a chance.
I still believe it's more logical to support legalizing for the people first since it would follow that business activities are more likely to be approved of if everyone can grow cannabis already.
Thanks for the forum.
Ernst
I have nothing but the best intentions when it comes to exploring the Five Things. Be it a solid proposal or a mere passing concept it is important that we examine all the avenues of cannabis legalization for 2012 so that we avoid a future schism like we just experienced with the 2010 election cycle in our Cannabis-Community.
We never had time to debate what could have been back in 2008 and 2009 like we do now . It is vitally important we do debate it this and come to consensus for the 2012 election cycle.
One ALL-IN-ONE initiative might pass or it might fail and the data cannot tell us nor guarantee us what the voters will end up doing. We saw that already with prop 19..
The prop-19 people really did their research I know. Yet, in the end the vote fell along emotional lines.. How people felt about it that day, They found doubt in prop-19 and I don't blame them.
It's not too far fetched to think that separating and simplifying our desired goals of legalizing cannabis for the people, establishing commerce under legal protections and setting drug policy will be a wise way to make progress.
One of the two initiatives might pass..The Business act or the legalization act. Maybe the voters are all for people having to buy cannabis and don't want people growing it. Maybe they don't want stores but like that people can grow their own and maybe the people are alright with the age being 18 rather than 21.
I remember listening to the Prop-19 people comforting us that their data was the right intelligence and that prop-19 was the best way. Well it failed.
It failed and I am one who does not want a second failure while industry gains more at the same time the average citizen is still subject to fines and prison.
Our communities became polarized over prop 19. People were ostracized over differing opinions. Why, even today I saw a cannabis site that is echoing the call for vague punishment of so called "Cannabis Traitors" It is just ridiculous that we allow our efforts to be squandered away with hate.
I'd like to be done with having to fight the No people out there and then battle the Yes people in our electronic communities.
Anyway.. I can leave this thread and we can host this exercise another site if my influence is inappropriate for RIU.. Just let me know. I just hope the readers see the point of my complaining on short notice.
What can anyone do but to speak out when our own behavior is partly to blame for our loss in 2010 and may impact 2012.
So it's not just this guy and it is not just right now but it is a complaint of all our electronic committees and all our Canna-People that we do not try to help each other. .
I owe Jack Herer people a debt for the privilege of conversation in this thread so, my site is your site. Come set up and update.
It takes a lot of effort to keep on keeping on.. Together we can make the journey to the next vote informed and unified!
I salute all who are contributing and supporting the efforts.
Thanks for reading how I feel on the lambasting of our people because of differing opinions.
I am sensitive because of experiences over our Prop-19 vote that is true so, please grant me some space.
We need every voice, every thought and our best efforts. I certainly have room to improve and am making the effort daily.
After all this is more about Canna-Freedom for future generations than it is for us alive today.
in time, it stands to reason that Cannabis will fade in the public's eye and like Holland and Portugal Teen use will drop and folks will hardly think twice when passing a side-walk cafe where people smoke cannabis or consume cannabis products but until then we face setting the example of doing legalizing right.
I happen to think Simple is better than complex. That if we are to gamble on a second roll of the dice we should place our bets conservatively by not supporting one all or nothing initiative in 2012.
If the people are okay with legalizing for the people then keep that separate and unencumbered by additional language for establishing industry or drug policy
If the voters vote down legalizing for one the others aspect may still have a chance.
I still believe it's more logical to support legalizing for the people first since it would follow that business activities are more likely to be approved of if everyone can grow cannabis already.
Thanks for the forum.
Ernst
Ernst
Well-Known Member
It's more a critique of all of us than just my complaint.
The way I see it we failed miserably as a community over prop-19.
We can look for all the reasons we did fail and change our ways.
After all if any of you think I am not risking my neck by going live and out of the cannabis closet guess again.
I have to agree with Lee when he commented on Some grower-folks.. The comment was something like Lee replied that while some people profit at a safe distance some of us are on the front lines every day.
We have to explore all avenues.. We just have to.
Our next vote may be our last for a long time if it fails.
I'll have something to share on the Five things mid-week Dan and Matt and whoever you are.
I hope my efforts add to the greater good for us all.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Richard Lee has far more legal protection than any grower, especially vendors.
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
Exactly...
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
for sure. his lawyers have lawyers.
but ernst, dan, the ruiner, ect have ASA potential, and that can make a big difference on the ground.
and ernst: no one wants to look at my ugly face everyday, but my cute pit on the other hand is a great avatar, and close enough to being a picture of me.
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
The ASA does not involve itself in anthing non-medical related....they didn't say any thing (that I heard) on 19 and it's (potential) implications.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
true. they are just medical. my ASA friends were very hands-off 19. my ASA friend thinks protecting MMj is key, not legalization.
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
I actually can appreciate the distinction. Especially being part of the community as it stands now.
GENERALIVXX
Well-Known Member
now thats a bill i would vote for, i dont think id mind paying a 10$ tax per oz, that bill is flawless
GENERALIVXX
Well-Known Member
and this says jack herers cch 2012 initiative, but jack herer himself was against recreational legalization, i dont like how his name is used.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I believe he actually wrote this himself.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
Sorry I missed the past couple of days.
How is everyone?
Not much new in California.. San Diego voters may pass a medical cannabis issue..
I just replied to a member here in email and thought to share that here.
Now to read through from where I last posted. I remember i was angry.
Pardon the anger.
How is everyone?
Not much new in California.. San Diego voters may pass a medical cannabis issue..
I just replied to a member here in email and thought to share that here.
Anyway I am all for a very liberal initiative for 2012.
Now to read through from where I last posted. I remember i was angry.
Pardon the anger.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
Cool..
I had bad experiences with the grow sites through the prop 19 months so I fear that sort of mob-mentality now.
Here is what I am thinking.
In a perfect world cannabis was never criminalized to prohibit an industry based on the cannabis plant but instead was allowed to find it's own level in world culture.
In that perfect world cannabis is available to adults in shops that sell other adult intoxicants and is moderately priced.
Fibre and chemical products abound with cannabis replacing corn as the bio-fuel material of choice and core is sent to the hungry world wide.
But that is not what we have.
To get there where cannabis is no more important than alcohol or tobacco and cannabis is a plant all adults can grow equally I suggest we allow the 5 things.
We all need support the 99 plants and private trade et al.
This may seem to be a blow to private cannabis industry but I think the issues of actually growing plants will stop many from doing so when the bud is cheep enough to buy without deciding between rent and weed.
The $400 ounce is unbelievable simply because it is a plant that grows free in the sun. Little production costs are associated with growing plants in many circumstances where beer or wine require equipment and skill. What makes that price is prohibition and thus some want to keep that part of prohibition while making the buying of cannabis at prohibition prices legal and especially legal to produce cannabis for sale at prohibition prices.
I understand that production of fine cannabis has requirements and costs however, that is business.
I believe we must separate people from corporations with our legalizing of cannabis! Let the market adjust on it's own after we legalize equally for all adults.
If a Business can roll a doobie and smoke it then I would consider including protections for that entity but corporations and business are not alive and can not consume cannabis. They can only profit from it's sale and the higher the price the better for the non-living corporation but bad news for the living people.
Too often we are seeing the living human being weighed against non-living corporations with the living breathing human losing to the non-living corporations with loss of jobs, home, income and rights.
People are facing the same battle with legalizing Cannabis. Folks who want limited rights for the living when it comes to cannabis are not against maximum profits for the non-living corporation! They are in favor of keeping the market as close to prohibition prices as possible even if it means that in the end the market will be controlled by large commercial farms and they, the little farmer, will have little to profit by against regulations, licensing and prices controlled by large corporations. Then there is getting shelf space in stores.. If the small farmer things all will be well if the people are restricted from growing 99 plants just ask vendors what shelf space in markets costs just to have a place for the product. Even small convince stores charge for shelf space.
So the way to keep the small farmer in the game is to make cannabis the domain of the people,
The smart money is on the 5 things,, Legalize completely for California adults.
I say to hell with the non-living when it comes to cannabis freedom!
Legalize 99+ plants for each of us, private trade and all of the 5 things!
Let the market find itself and keep us from making the market structure of prohibition permanent.
We didn't choose prohibition and we must not keep the market system it created because we want to keep making profits for the short term while big industry tools up to supply the state!
Let the market be free.. Let the people grow simple plants in freedom and peace if they want to.
If the growers think they will lose because all the people can grow 99 I ask them how many of their friends brew their own beer only or at all?
That is the reality.. If it is in the store and priced competitively people will choose convenience and variety over investing months to grow plants.
The days of the dealer will come to an end and the clock is already ticking on that day.. Just look at Oakland, Chico and Humboldt for a clue to what is to come.
Now on to price and market protections.
So you are a grower and you depend on selling your produce for a price.
Let us skip 10 years ahead and assume we will failed to legalize for the people but our Medical Industry keep growing.
Simple because that is what is happening right now.. Not a big stretch of the imagination to believe several industrial producers will supply a large portion of the market shortly.
Now it's 10 years later and cannabis is in nearly every market zone..Brand names are easy to identify and folks pick up cannabis at the local convenience store hypothetically. Do you know how corporations compete with market share?
By producing in bulk at low costs. They can afford to drop prices to keep market share and by dropping prices that actually gain market share once they make small business producers fail due to market control.
So from what i can tell the small scale producer's days are numbered as I type no matter if they choose to support true legalization or not.
So what will true legalization do?
Well it will drop the bottom out of the establishment of industrial sized grow-op corporations if the market value is too low to recoup large investments in a reasonable time. It will put cannabis back in the hands of the people!
I am one who believes Cannabis is the crop of the people. By not truly re-legalizing it for the people we are cheating ourselves and future generations.
So you small grower who is not for 99 plants and private sales for the people but supports that kind of freedom for business and more.. Do you really think you stand a chance to be a producer in 10 years once the government and corporations claim rights to Cannabis?
The smart money is on making it equal for all from the start.
That's my opinion. Vote for yourself as you vote for us all.
All for one and One for all! The Five things are Canna-Freedom.
-------------------------------
Well I am back on the job.. There is some news updated on California2012.org so stop by..
If we don't demand cannabis freedom for the people, the people will not have cannabis freedom.
Business will always find sales with cannabis.. Be it a proprietary strain or just high consistent quality at affordable prices but the high price worries many private growers have will not be solved by keeping cannabis prohibited for the people since large corporations will be able to provide tons and low cost and be able to manipulate the market and push small farmers out of business with commercial farms.
That is no lie.. So why not completely legalize and make it fair for all?
Catch you all later..
Time to be real elsewhere..
Ernst
I had bad experiences with the grow sites through the prop 19 months so I fear that sort of mob-mentality now.
Here is what I am thinking.
In a perfect world cannabis was never criminalized to prohibit an industry based on the cannabis plant but instead was allowed to find it's own level in world culture.
In that perfect world cannabis is available to adults in shops that sell other adult intoxicants and is moderately priced.
Fibre and chemical products abound with cannabis replacing corn as the bio-fuel material of choice and core is sent to the hungry world wide.
But that is not what we have.
To get there where cannabis is no more important than alcohol or tobacco and cannabis is a plant all adults can grow equally I suggest we allow the 5 things.
We all need support the 99 plants and private trade et al.
This may seem to be a blow to private cannabis industry but I think the issues of actually growing plants will stop many from doing so when the bud is cheep enough to buy without deciding between rent and weed.
The $400 ounce is unbelievable simply because it is a plant that grows free in the sun. Little production costs are associated with growing plants in many circumstances where beer or wine require equipment and skill. What makes that price is prohibition and thus some want to keep that part of prohibition while making the buying of cannabis at prohibition prices legal and especially legal to produce cannabis for sale at prohibition prices.
I understand that production of fine cannabis has requirements and costs however, that is business.
I believe we must separate people from corporations with our legalizing of cannabis! Let the market adjust on it's own after we legalize equally for all adults.
If a Business can roll a doobie and smoke it then I would consider including protections for that entity but corporations and business are not alive and can not consume cannabis. They can only profit from it's sale and the higher the price the better for the non-living corporation but bad news for the living people.
Too often we are seeing the living human being weighed against non-living corporations with the living breathing human losing to the non-living corporations with loss of jobs, home, income and rights.
People are facing the same battle with legalizing Cannabis. Folks who want limited rights for the living when it comes to cannabis are not against maximum profits for the non-living corporation! They are in favor of keeping the market as close to prohibition prices as possible even if it means that in the end the market will be controlled by large commercial farms and they, the little farmer, will have little to profit by against regulations, licensing and prices controlled by large corporations. Then there is getting shelf space in stores.. If the small farmer things all will be well if the people are restricted from growing 99 plants just ask vendors what shelf space in markets costs just to have a place for the product. Even small convince stores charge for shelf space.
So the way to keep the small farmer in the game is to make cannabis the domain of the people,
The smart money is on the 5 things,, Legalize completely for California adults.
I say to hell with the non-living when it comes to cannabis freedom!
Legalize 99+ plants for each of us, private trade and all of the 5 things!
Let the market find itself and keep us from making the market structure of prohibition permanent.
We didn't choose prohibition and we must not keep the market system it created because we want to keep making profits for the short term while big industry tools up to supply the state!
Let the market be free.. Let the people grow simple plants in freedom and peace if they want to.
If the growers think they will lose because all the people can grow 99 I ask them how many of their friends brew their own beer only or at all?
That is the reality.. If it is in the store and priced competitively people will choose convenience and variety over investing months to grow plants.
The days of the dealer will come to an end and the clock is already ticking on that day.. Just look at Oakland, Chico and Humboldt for a clue to what is to come.
Now on to price and market protections.
So you are a grower and you depend on selling your produce for a price.
Let us skip 10 years ahead and assume we will failed to legalize for the people but our Medical Industry keep growing.
Simple because that is what is happening right now.. Not a big stretch of the imagination to believe several industrial producers will supply a large portion of the market shortly.
Now it's 10 years later and cannabis is in nearly every market zone..Brand names are easy to identify and folks pick up cannabis at the local convenience store hypothetically. Do you know how corporations compete with market share?
By producing in bulk at low costs. They can afford to drop prices to keep market share and by dropping prices that actually gain market share once they make small business producers fail due to market control.
So from what i can tell the small scale producer's days are numbered as I type no matter if they choose to support true legalization or not.
So what will true legalization do?
Well it will drop the bottom out of the establishment of industrial sized grow-op corporations if the market value is too low to recoup large investments in a reasonable time. It will put cannabis back in the hands of the people!
I am one who believes Cannabis is the crop of the people. By not truly re-legalizing it for the people we are cheating ourselves and future generations.
So you small grower who is not for 99 plants and private sales for the people but supports that kind of freedom for business and more.. Do you really think you stand a chance to be a producer in 10 years once the government and corporations claim rights to Cannabis?
The smart money is on making it equal for all from the start.
That's my opinion. Vote for yourself as you vote for us all.
All for one and One for all! The Five things are Canna-Freedom.
-------------------------------
Well I am back on the job.. There is some news updated on California2012.org so stop by..
If we don't demand cannabis freedom for the people, the people will not have cannabis freedom.
Business will always find sales with cannabis.. Be it a proprietary strain or just high consistent quality at affordable prices but the high price worries many private growers have will not be solved by keeping cannabis prohibited for the people since large corporations will be able to provide tons and low cost and be able to manipulate the market and push small farmers out of business with commercial farms.
That is no lie.. So why not completely legalize and make it fair for all?
Catch you all later..
Time to be real elsewhere..
Ernst
GENERALIVXX
Well-Known Member
but yet the authors are listed underneath the bill and his name is not there, and on the youthfederation website his name is only shown at the bottom of the page where the link is to his website, jack herer was not for recreational legalization. His name is being used for the wrong purposes.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
Thanks GENERALIVXX
Do you know the history of Jack Herer?
I understand it was funded and failed twice?
What is the theory of why it wasn't popular?
Do you know the history of Jack Herer?
I understand it was funded and failed twice?
What is the theory of why it wasn't popular?
Ernst
Well-Known Member
Matt how are you doing?
Around this forum we have been kicking around Horticulture first as a safe first step.
Watch out for the Trolls.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I disagree. It's possible I was incorrect about him authoring this personally, but I'm positive he was supporting recreation legalization before he died. He was against prop 19, but not against recreational legalization. He did agree to have his name attached to this proposal, it just didn't make it on that ballot so they changed it to a 2012 initiative.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
I agree with you because the prop 19 people needed something of a vessel to shelter in so this Cannabis is Wine as if there are wine plants or beer plants is just a cover so they can push the new prohibition agenda that the new prop 19 people are hoping will pass.
See the 10x10 or 5x5 people are counting on arresting people for cannabis to maintain an inequality of access to cannabis plants.
It's a real conundrum that it is so profitable while it is illegal but not profitable on a corporate profit scale if anyone can grow and share.
We will see efforts to sell us "Less is More" Just vote No in 2012.. It's rigged!
Just Over Grow the dispensaries!
Fuck em..
Get your weed from your neighbor my friend and I'll grow some for you for free!
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Because people don't agree with your very specific agenda that means they want to have people arrested? I don't think I'm at all out of line when I tell you, go fuck yourself Ernest.
Tired of your crackpot propaganda. That's enough. If you need to lie about everyone who disagrees with you in order to make your point, then you're point isn't worth making in the first place. You're a sad little man.