January 6th, 2021

Bagginski said:

This is truly a big deal…and apparently the evidence trail is not only multi-state but goes back to early OCTOBER ‘20. I think the doc-dump from the committee to DOJ has accelerated things, exposing / establishing lines of co-operation that were (deliberately) obscure

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They were party to a massive spoke and hub conspiracy to overthrow the government and constitution of America, depriving tens of millions of citizens from their fundamental right to vote and have it count, as well as counted. There were hundreds who signed on, along with their enablers in the statehouses and they are the fanatical core of the republican party, all will be worried going into the fall election. If they indict them before the election, it will hollow out the GOP organizations in a lot of states before November. The Trump white house clowns might not want to talk to the J6 panel, but they are talking to the FBI in interviews and will talk to the currently empaneled grand jury and will plead the 5th many times.

I just had a question…

If a witness, under oath, takes the 5th, and then is shown evidence of their participation/involvement/connection to the matter of the question, what happens next?

Can they be convicted on the evidence in spite of their plea to the 5th? Do they *lose* their non-incrimination option? It certainly wouldn’t overrule the evidence and let them *skate* would it?

Bagginski said:

I just had a question…

If a witness, under oath, takes the 5th, and then is shown evidence of their participation/involvement/connection to the matter of the question, what happens next?

Can they be convicted on the evidence in spite of their plea to the 5th? Do they *lose* their non-incrimination option? It certainly wouldn’t overrule the evidence and let them *skate* would it?

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If they have a federal pardon like say Rudy, he cannot take the 5th, but can if it involves a state crime too, as well as a federal one. In this case over throwing the federal government and it's associated crimes have no state law analogs, so Rudy can't plead the 5th. It's like that for anybody Trump might have given a secret pocket pardon to, you won't know about them until they are indicted in court or called as a witness in another case and will have to cough them up. So I expect all the Trump inner circle to have pardons, but the peons like Eastman and others, "government" employees" and underlings won't, the suckers will go down. Why would Rudy lie under oath for Trump when he's Scott free with a pocket pardon? No wonder Trump cut him off months ago and Rudy is begging for dimes. Rudy has no 5th amendment protections on anything doing with the insurrection and his involvement with it, why go to jail for contempt or perjury?

Anybody can plead the 5th as a witness, if you are indicted, you cannot be compelled to testify and if there is both a state and federal felony, they can plead the 5th to the feds because of a state charge.

No one’s talking about it, but I can’t imagine pardons from TFFA to his toadies, lieutenants & co-conspirators being held valid, no matter how ‘broad’ the pardon power is

Bagginski said:

No one’s talking about it, but I can’t imagine pardons from TFFA to his toadies, lieutenants & co-conspirators being held valid, no matter how ‘broad’ the pardon power is

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Just like everything else coming out of the trump orbit, it’s bullshit.

CunningCanuk said:

Just like everything else coming out of the trump orbit, it’s bullshit.

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Any pardon Trump issued, except for himself will be deemed valid by the SCOTUS, unless they paid cash for it and it can be proven. Even if he wrote one in secret a week after he was out of office, they would need to prove it. Nobody will know about it until they whip it out and show it to the judge. Pardon power was intended for presidents, not criminals like Trump and there is little precedent and scant words about it in the constitution. It is a flaw in the system that Trump full exploited, the only brakes on it for him, was they lose their 5th amendment rights and could testify against him after he pardoned them. That is what Rudy will do I figure and why Trump cut him off without a dime months ago and Rudy is flat broke.

Stripping him of his post-office goodies for his crimes would relieve the fear that secret service agents would have to go to jail with him, we’d save his pension and insurance, maybe vacate any pardons issued related to the proceedings.

No library, but there could be a memorial rotating magazine rack at the convenience store closest to where he grew up…right next to the glass-pipe display & the MALE POWER capsules

Bagginski said:

Stripping him of his post-office goodies for his crimes would relieve the fear that secret service agents would have to go to jail with him, we’d save his pension and insurance, maybe vacate any pardons issued related to the proceedings.

No library, but there could be a memorial rotating magazine rack at the convenience store closest to where he grew up…right next to the glass-pipe display & the MALE POWER capsules

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An asterisk by his name and number, like a record holding athlete who used steroids to cheat.

Anybody can plead the 5th as a witness, if you are indicted, you cannot be compelled to testify and if there is both a state and federal felony, they can plead the 5th to the feds because of a state charge.

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Pardons are only for federal crimes. State indictments are unphazed.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Any pardon Trump issued, except for himself will be deemed valid by the SCOTUS, unless they paid cash for it and it can be proven. Even if he wrote one in secret a week after he was out of office, they would need to prove it. Nobody will know about it until they whip it out and show it to the judge. Pardon power was intended for presidents, not criminals like Trump and there is little precedent and scant words about it in the constitution. It is a flaw in the system that Trump full exploited, the only brakes on it for him, was they lose their 5th amendment rights and could testify against him after he pardoned them. That is what Rudy will do I figure and why Trump cut him off without a dime months ago and Rudy is flat broke.

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We’ll see.

CunningCanuk said:

We’ll see.

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It is past time to find out! If it were the case, the J6 panel would have uncovered them in closed testimony by asking them point blank under oath. If Donald and his inner circle did have pardons (Donald's is no good, but it will take years to decide), it might have political ramifications. It will piss off a lot of the suckers who are looking at 20 years in the slammer, as these guys laugh in their faces and hang them from the witness stand and get away Scott free. Donald would hate someone doing that to him, but anybody he pardoned will, they are all a bunch of fucking worms. Rudy sure does look like he has a pardon though, covering some of his crimes, but perhaps not all, particularly state crimes. He was nuts deep in the Ukraine scandal too with Trump blackmailing Zelenskiy over Javelin missiles and aid. The committee says Rudy knows a lot and if he has immunity with a pardon over J6, he will spill it.

We will see and we won't have to wait long either!

Public hearings begin June 9.

The truth and details will be refreshing and agonizing. The GOP & Trump supporters will double down in the face of the evidence. They will also claim victimhood & "politization" of events, media bias, and point at BLM & antifa. They will continue to prepare overriding electors and control the vote counting process though.

It will be exactly like the impeachment hearings. Expect your anger and frustration to increase.

Bagginski said:

I just had a question…

If a witness, under oath, takes the 5th, and then is shown evidence of their participation/involvement/connection to the matter of the question, what happens next?

Can they be convicted on the evidence in spite of their plea to the 5th? Do they *lose* their non-incrimination option? It certainly wouldn’t overrule the evidence and let them *skate* would it?

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pleading the fifth doesn't grant you any kind of protection from prosecution, and it infers that you did something that was criminal...i've never understood the whole fifth amendment...you can decline to say anything about a thing you did that may have been criminal? isn't that what the fuck you're in court for to begin with? the whole amendment to me seems to be a loophole lawyers built into the legal system to get their fucking guilty clients out of a pinch, and should just be removed. if you know something, fucking talk, or you're just as guilty as everyone else involved

Offmymeds said:

Public hearings begin June 9.

The truth and details will be refreshing and agonizing. The GOP & Trump supporters will double down in the face of the evidence. They will also claim victimhood & "politization" of events, media bias, and point at BLM & antifa. They will continue to prepare overriding electors and control the vote counting process though.

It will be exactly like the impeachment hearings. Expect your anger and frustration to increase.

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Pardons for the cronies and family could be one bombshell of many. If they have them and are squealing, Donald will flip out, as will the ones involved in the conspiracy who didn't have pardons, the suckers and patsies who will do heavy time in the slammer.

a pardon from trump is pretty much an admission of guilt to anyone except the stupider magats...wtf would any of these fine people need a secret pocket pardon from trump unless they were doing something illegal? even if they can't be prosecuted for some things, they can still be investigated, you knows there's shit not covered by those pardons. they can still be outed for their crimes, and the ones still able to feel shame, might. but one way or another, it will build an irrefutable wall of damnation.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

a pardon from trump is pretty much an admission of guilt to anyone except the stupider magats...wtf would any of these fine people need a secret pocket pardon from trump unless they were doing something illegal? even if they can't be prosecuted for some things, they can still be investigated, you knows there's shit not covered by those pardons. they can still be outed for their crimes, and the ones still able to feel shame, might. but one way or another, it will build an irrefutable wall of damnation.

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Dunno, but it looks like Rudy might have some kind of blanket pardon absolving him of all crimes before the signing date, ditto for Trump's kids and perhaps some others. We will soon find out, I'm sure it was one of the questions the J6 panel asked behind closed doors. If Meadows isn't showing before the J6 panel to try and hide his pardon, then the DOJ will squeeze it out of him before election day, just by indicting him.

Bagginski said:

If a witness, under oath, takes the 5th, and then is shown evidence of their participation/involvement/connection to the matter of the question, what happens next?

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My understanding is that if your talking about a grand jury. You can not invoke the 5th.
If in court the 5th only allows you the means of not answering anything and that means anything. The evidence still goes to the jury. The fifth is a double edged sword. The fifth in many cases infers guilt.
I personally know some one who wouldn't answer 7 questions. Took the fifth. But because he answered other questions he lost his right to the 5th.
He was aquitted of all charges but got 14 months for not answering those 7 questions.

Don't Bogart said:

My understanding is that if your talking about a grand jury. You can not invoke the 5th.
If in court the 5th only allows you the means of not answering anything and that means anything. The evidence still goes to the jury. The fifth is a double edged sword. The fifth in many cases infers guilt.
I personally know some one who wouldn't answer 7 questions. Took the fifth. But because he answered other questions he lost his right to the 5th.
He was aquitted of all charges but got 14 months for not answering those 7 questions.

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"Only suckers plead the fifth."

oh wait, wrong quote,

"Only guilty mafioso's plead the fifth."

Or something like that.

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