I honestly don’t mind sharing with you but I don’t think I’m who you need to convince.
I'm not responding to you to convince
you of anything. It was clear that you would protect your belief from scrutiny by witholding information about it, such as what rulebook you are using, to play the game. I dismissed the exclusion under the pretence of being 'spiritual' rather than religious which is fine, but then you quote Psalms from it. I put it to you that I think that you do read a bible but are unwilling to say which one, for some reason.
I’m not a man nor woman of the cloth my friend. I’m just a stoner here with you on this forum.
Short answers are… We agree, we agree, we agree, yes choosing to have no free will is still your choice
I don't think that we
do agree, here. Perhaps I didn't explain what I meant, very well.
GOD GAVE US 'FREE WILL'. I will let that false statement be a 'fact' here as you believe that it is, to rationally explain where I think that the idea becomes incompatible with itself. If God gave us all free will, and we used it to choose
not to have 'free will', then would we still have it? It seems to me that we have no say at all, either way.
Balance the equation, and God doesn't need to be here, and by extension of that, neither does a 'free will' that can be 'given', to change anything.
The outcome is the all-to familiar 'God intervened or
Something else (nothing) did'. Same theme from the Genesis 1.1-2 example that I mentioned before. 'God sent wind' vs '
It was windy'. The presupposition of a gods existence in both of these examples are redundant. If he did make the world, he made it maintenance free, because he doesn't need to be around, for it to work. The world works fine, on its own. (Probably just part of an ingenious (amateur) plan devised before
creating the world).
It is just a redundant complication for the sake of non-compliance ransoms that will need to be paid otherwise you'll 'go to Hell'. Just one more illusion to scare people into the belief.
If we
didn't have free will, who then, would be accountable for our actions? Surely as sock-puppets (as you mentioned those without it
would be), it would be the puppeteer that is accountable for the actions of the 'no free will' cast, in the play.
Since you won't admit to reading a bible, (or at least name it) but still go on to quote from it twice and mention that you think Moses was a prophet worth listening to, I think that it is fair that I can at the very least, bring up a Moses question about free will and how 'free' it really is.
In Exodus, when Moses and Aaron wanted the Pharoah to let the Israelites go, God bullied the pharoah for a week, into submission and then when he said, "Ok, I'll let the Israelites go", God then 'hardened Pharoahs heart'. So Pharoah was to blame (because he had 'free will') for keeping the Israelites, but then all of a sudden, God controls him to change his '
free willed' mind for what? So that he can torture Egypt for a bit longer and brag about how many tricks he can do?
We can not be given free will. With, or without magic.
...we agree I’ve been bitten 50 times. I’m stubborn. That’s cool. I’m a lover not a fighter.
Again, I mustn't have explained what I meant, properly as in my analogy, I was implying that stubbornness would be on the 'only exposed once and now I'm convinced, no matter what' side of the scale and not on the '50 exposures can be a fair, non-stereotyping method of reaching a conclusion' side.
I’m not here to have a serious discussion or disagreement with any one.
Then this will be my last post to you, as I was after a conversation with someone who is, so that we can answer the OPs question, "Jesus, Are You Real?"
Right on. I don’t think sin has a level.
Neither does God. If you tell a lie, then it may as well have been to cover up a murder, because a 'sin' is a 'sin', is a 'sin'.
Like I said I think there’s a judgment day. We will all be revealed to each other.
It sounds like a threat, to me. Be good, or else.
Why not do what the unbelievers do and just
be good for the sake of being good?
I think so and amen to that by the way amen means I agree.
Yes, or "..so be it".
I think it happens when we least expect it and we need to chill the fuck out.
Psalms 46:10. We will just have to agree to disagree.
You quote God as saying, "Chill out, I'm awesome, everyone will love me".
Dude that’s not evolution.
If you are referring to the images of the same plant that hasn't changed its species, You are right. It wasn't meant to be evolution. It was meant to be a demonstration of many minute changes over a long period of time, to end up with something completely unrecognizable to what was started with. It was a representation, a mental image that I was trying to send.
You are welcome.
My grandmother was killed by a drunk driver when I was a toddler. I still remember her funeral. I later learned that my grandfather used to kick her ass. I have to wonder if God simply chose to take her home rather than allow her to continue to endure. I think so.
I've had a similar thought. If I hadn't stalled my car at the green traffic lights one time, I would have been part of a horrible accident where the first guy off the line in the lane next to me, got T-boned. Sure, the thought of divine intervention crossed my mind, but then I thought, surely it would be easier to
guide the drivers foot to not run a red light and kill the guy next to me, rather than to 'save' me and not the other two. Maybe they were just sinners. Maybe they'd had enough of a hard life. Maybe the other driver just had too much to drink.
..just another case of infinite reasons why something can plausibly happen, but thowing God into the mix for some reason just gets us back to the 'God did it. ....OR something else did' way of describing events.
It has been amusing talking to you but like I said in my first post, I can help those that feel trapped in a religion to get out if they WANT to. I feel that people who want help are less likely to avoid the things that will help them.
Much like going to the doctor. It can be a quick fix if the doctor doesn't need to play guessing games.
I appreciate you having this discussion with me and I hope your RA (and other issues) settles down.
If anyone wants help, please state what version of the bible you read, your religion, and the issue holding you into your religion. It will make things much easier for both of us and anyone reading.[/QUOTE]
