Kelp meal, Mid Flower 10,000 ppm+

S

Shrooomer

Member
Week 4 Flowering
Indoors organic soil
Fed tap water 7.7 Ph when dry.

Okay so week 4 flowering everything was going swimmingly.
WP_20170412_17_19_56_Pro (Week 4).jpg

Then I added Kelp at the recommendation of a friend....
The NPK on label is 0.3-0.1-1.0

But my research i did before i got the product led me to believe that what I was purchasing equals as followed:
Organic dried kelp meal mix:
Bladder Wrack 3-5-18
Laminaria 2-0.3-3
Together 5-5-21

So a bit unsure about that..

Bubbled in water at 1:16 Kelp to water for 3 days
Diluted again in water 1/4 and used as 1 watering
and 1 foliar feed at week 4.

Plant 1 Top left, Plant 2 Bottom left 2 cola, Plant 3 Right.
WP_20170414_15_29_16_Pro (Day 30).jpg
Oops

Okay now 2 days later i have flushed the plants heavy and they are still showing signs of serious problems.
WP_20170415_16_10_30_Pro (Day 31).jpg
The run off of Plant 1 (Top Left) came out at over 10,000 ppm after the first 2L of water aha! My meter only goes up to 10,000 so i had to dilute the run off!! I flushed until the run off was 1000 or under.

Plant 1
1.jpg 1a.jpg



Plant 2
2.jpg


Plant 3 - Have been Bud building this one.
3.jpg
I know she looks like Cal lock out :(

It seems fine in the areas that don't get direct sunlight so i think the foliar was the worst and way too strong or salty? Maybe the Kelp needed washing prior to soaking..

Any advice would be appreciated, this is the first time i have used kelp and never had any problems in the past.
 
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That wasn't due to foliar feeding imo. I had the same issue with my organic grow. I attribute mine to a misdiagnosis that caused me to water with nutes which likely messed up my soil but I'm not positive. I NEVER foliar fed or even wet the leaves. Mine also only did this to leaves exposed to light. Lots of green healthy leaves inside. I have one left where I harvested the top half. The bottom was left with all nice green leaves. 3 days later and they're starting to do the spot thing. I have no idea. Still got sweet bud though.

I left the leaves on no matter how bad they looked as the plant was still holding them strongly even though some were crispy. They all eventually turned black.
 
Creature1969 said:
That wasn't due to foliar feeding imo. I had the same issue with my organic grow. I attribute mine to a misdiagnosis that caused me to water with nutes which likely messed up my soil but I'm not positive. I NEVER foliar fed or even wet the leaves. Mine also only did this to leaves exposed to light. Lots of green healthy leaves inside. I have one left where I harvested the top half. The bottom was left with all nice green leaves. 3 days later and they're starting to do the spot thing. I have no idea. Still got sweet bud though.

I left the leaves on no matter how bad they looked as the plant was still holding them strongly even though some were crispy. They all eventually turned black.
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I already trimmed the worst that where blocking light but hardly any (regretting now). From what you said and my observation i assume the leaves exposed to full light show the symptoms earliest. Yea man they didn't need the feed it completely threw everything off balance, the foliar spray was the same as the kelp water feed. How is the bud compared the a plant that is 100% healthy?
 
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Day Before feed
WP_20170412_17_11_56_Pro.jpg


Day after
WP_20170415_16_11_25_Pro.jpg

They are under 4 Vero 29 run at 1.4A in 50 x 80 x 180cm tent, Lights are 22 inch above 80% cola's and 17/19 inch on the top few, Temperature ranges from 24 C Lights off, 29 C Lights on at peak (normally 28 C)

Doesn't look too bad from a distance but close up obviously the veins are burning. Need to refine the Kelp process as i know it is beneficial in flowing just not how i did it i assume..?
 
Shrooomer said:
I already trimmed the worst that where blocking light but hardly any. Yea man they didn't need the feed it completely threw everything off balance, the foliar spray was the same as the kelp water feed. How is the bud compared the a plant that is 100% healthy?
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Judging by the bud, you'd never know the plant had issues. I'm guessing I only lost a little weight from it. The buds turned a nice purple making it easy to see the crystal coating they have. I'd feel no shame handing someone a bud to try. :bigjoint:

I'm thinking I had a calcium issue, possibly lockout when I added nutes, maybe a short ph swing. When the spots appeared I went back to just ph'd water. Never got much worse but the damage was done.
 
Creature1969 said:
Judging by the bud, you'd never know the plant had issues. I'm guessing I only lost a little weight from it. The buds turned a nice purple making it easy to see the crystal coating they have. I'd feel no shame handing someone a bud to try. :bigjoint:

I'm thinking I had a calcium issue, possibly lockout when I added nutes, maybe a short ph swing. When the spots appeared I went back to just ph'd water. Never got much worse but the damage was done.
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Yea def Calcium lock out from the nutes and ph change, Hopefully it won't progress much more (Fingers crossed). And i expect quite a decrease in weight.. :/ Cheers bro, will they swell much from here? 4-6 weeks more flowering?

Got any pics to that grow?
 
Next time when they look as good as that first picture dont mess with them, and go kick your friend in the sack for his pointer/advice. Hopefully they recover those were some healthy looking ladys before the feed
 
tpc_mikey said:
Next time when they look as good as that first picture dont mess with them, and go kick your friend in the sack for his pointer/advice. Hopefully they recover those were some healthy looking ladys before the feed
Click to expand...

Yea if it isn't broke don't try and fix it, keep it simple stupid aha.
Does anyone have any insight on burning plants with kelp meal ?
I can only find good things.
 
I dont think the kelp meal burned them i think you have lockout going and a cal/mag deficiency, you flushed already id give a folliar of some epsome salt, 1tsp into a gal of water and mix real good and spray but do it right when lites first come on.
 
What all is in your organic soil because truthfully if you look close at the before picture it was starting to show signs of this
 
and yes next time you add kelp do it as a top dressing get the espoma brand add just a bit to the top of your soil and water it in.
 
It happened just over night and run off was over 10,000 ppm. Epsom salt and cal/mag aren't helping, this was my first call before i flushed :/

Also you probably know kelp contains all of that but i thought i made it super weak:
Calcium-------16.8mg 2%
Iron------------0.3mg 2%
Magnesium--12.1mg 3%
Phosphorus--4.2mg 0%
Potassium 8.9mg 0%
Sodium 23.3mg 1%
Zinc 0.1mg 1%
Copper 0.0mg 1%
Manganese 0.0mg 1%
Selenium 0.1mcg 0%

So they shouldn't have shown those symptoms if i need to add more would they? That was what i was trying to fix in the first place aha. I know i flushed so might add a tea in a few days, see how they do on water.
 
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tpc_mikey said:
What all is in your organic soil because truthfully if you look close at the before picture it was starting to show signs of this
Click to expand...

New horizon organic peat free multi-purpose compost
I can't find any NPK values on it at all or a ph.. :S
I didn't include in the first post but i did feed a tea from this compost a week before flowering at 400 ppm and they all loved it, but maybe i gave a little too much to the one on the left?
You have a good eye my friend, when i said it was all going swimmingly it was in comparison to how unappealing it is now.

This is at 2 weeks flowing and why the Kelp seemed like such a good idea. (Ignore 4 bottom cola's with slight nute burn) Plant on the right looks like it was lacking potassium and calcium a little (hard to see calcium def in this pic) and plant on the left was confusing me as I did Foliar the following week with Epson salt couple times same ratio as you (And normally this greens up the leaves almost instantly) and nothing happened! So i think it already had a bit of a lock out issue. Cant wait for a fresh grow :/ Thanks for the advice btw. Ill post a pic tomorrow, i havn't done anything since flush but add a little calcium to them all.
WP_20170330_18_34_27_Pro (2 Weeks Flowing).jpg
 
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Shrooomer said:
New horizon organic peat free multi-purpose compost
I can't find any NPK values on it at all or a ph.. :S
You have a good eye my friend, when i said it was all going swimmingly it was in comparison to how unappealing it is now.

This is at 2 weeks flowing and why the Kelp seemed like such a good idea. (Ignore 4 bottom cola's with slight nute burn) Plant on the right looks like it was lacking potassium and calcium a little (hard to see calcium def in this pic) and plant on the left was confusing me as I did Foliar the following week with Epson salt couple times same ratio as you (And normally this greens up the leaves almost instantly) and nothing happened! So i think it already had a bit of a lock out issue. Cant wait for a fresh grow :/ Thanks for the advice btw. Ill post a pic tomorrow, i havn't done anything since flush but add a little calcium to them all.
View attachment 3925951
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goto your local garden store or hardware store see if they have espoma tomato tone or espoma kelp meal get about a cup full of each and mix it with a couple cups of worm castings kinda spread it evenly across the top of our soil and work it in a bit on the top inch or so then next time you water it should have started to break down, i would also recommend maybe half a teaspoon of hi cal dolomite lime crush it up and put it in a gallon of water very very little and that will give your roots a good dose of calmag and the lime will balance your ph.
 
tpc_mikey said:
goto your local garden store or hardware store see if they have espoma tomato tone or espoma kelp meal get about a cup full of each and mix it with a couple cups of worm castings kinda spread it evenly across the top of our soil and work it in a bit on the top inch or so then next time you water it should have started to break down, i would also recommend maybe half a teaspoon of hi cal dolomite lime crush it up and put it in a gallon of water very very little and that will give your roots a good dose of calmag and the lime will balance your ph.
Click to expand...

I would like your post but as i only have 1 like myself i cannot.
In veg i wish i mixed some lime in after doing very little research but didn't see anything about watering with it and was told to add at the start or not at all. Sounds logical and like a good idea to me to water with it now though and ph balancing in a ++. What is the difference from the kelp meal i have and espoma tomato toma or espoma kelp meal, and what different benefits? I am very interested in this scientifically. Btw the calcium i added after flush was from organic egg shells dissolved in apple cider vinegar and diluted with water, what do you think about that? Obviously lime in the soil is better aha
 
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The Kelp meal and tomato tone will give you the organic P and K ya need. Here is my plant it is in a 10 gal smart pot it is Fox farm ocean forest soil mixed with happy frog, I added worm castings the kelp meal and the tomato tone and a tad bit of the hi cal dolomite lime, and mixed it up and watered and let it sit for a month and cook before using it, to this day im at about 80 days and have given nothing but water along with a few top dressings of bat guano.IMG_1170.JPGthis is it under the scrog net
IMG_1224.JPG
 
tpc_mikey said:
The Kelp meal and tomato tone will give you the organic P and K ya need. Here is my plant it is in a 10 gal smart pot it is Fox farm ocean forest soil mixed with happy frog, I added worm castings the kelp meal and the tomato tone and a tad bit of the hi cal dolomite lime, and mixed it up and watered and let it sit for a month and cook before using it, to this day im at about 80 days and have given nothing but water along with a few top dressings of bat guano.View attachment 3926015this is it under the scrog net
View attachment 3926016
Click to expand...

So what about the kelp i have, is it useless? Cost a lot for 3kg and i'm pretty broke till this comes through.
I can't even post a link to where i got it from...
First link on amazon if you google search:
Seaweed Meal Kelp Fertiliser (premium grade) For Gardens, Flowers, Lawns, Shrubs, 1.5 KG Organic certification IOFGA

Gonna cook up my own compost next grow
I know worm castings are gold to plants : D
 
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Shrooomer said:
So what about the kelp i have, is it useless? Cost a lot for 3kg and i'm pretty broke till this comes through.
I can't even post a link to where i got it from...
First link on amazon if you google search:
Seaweed Meal Kelp Fertiliser (premium grade) For Gardens, Flowers, Lawns, Shrubs, 1.5 KG Organic certification IOFGA

Gonna cook up my own compost next grow
I know worm castings are gold to plants : D
Click to expand...
never seent that before this is what i use
IMG_0944.JPG
 
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