Keynesian Economics

RoninAmok

Active Member
By the way " Brah" , there's only three or so who have posted here who have an understanding of Keynesian economics and how the theory work , along with the basic FACT the implementations of said theories within the context of the US have *never* been true Keynesian economics but instead Neo-Keynesian.


And you're not one of those with said understanding.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
By the way " Brah" , there's only three or so who have posted here who have an understanding of Keynesian economics and how the theory work , along with the basic FACT the implementations of said theories within the context of the US have *never* been true Keynesian economics but instead Neo-Keynesian.


And you're not one of those with said understanding.
I never claimed to know everything, unlike you I can admit to that. I am still learning a lot about economics. That is why I made this thread, to talk to intelligent open minded individuals. You are not one of them.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Yes, using Government spending as part of the formula for GDP is in error. Using GDP growth to set monetary policy is also broken because you can always have a positive GDP as long as government spends enough. Since Government cannot raise taxes enough to offset this deficit without massive discontent, they resort to other insidious schemes such as Inflation and check kiting.

By devaluing the currency, government can pay off a significant portion of its debt by stealing the purchasing power of all the citizens, this is done by inflating the money supply which causes prices on real goods to go up.

By continually rolling over debt ad infinitum and just printing more bonds to pay for it all is really not any different than kiting checks over and over. By paying for one check with another and just paying the service fee (Bond Coupon rate) every time you kite another. This will happen until the wheels fall off our economy because there is NO political will in the leadership to make the hard choices.

Mathematically the debt is impossible to pay and sometime in the future the USA will default on its obligations, that is when the real suffering begins. Greece will start the ball rolling, and while Spain gets ready to be next, the EU will slump which will cause the US Dollar to gain alot of strength. Commodity prices will deflate, but then after the EU economy is thoroughly cooked, it will be our turn. Watch as those same depressed commodity prices skyrocket and the dollar index dives, inflation will skyrocket, bond coupons will skyrocket also, but hardly anyone will buy them after being eviscerated in most markets and having been left with mere pennies on the dollar.

Of course, the whole world might come to a stop if the derivatives scheme comes undone. Derivatives are hedged with CDS instruments. If countries default those CDS will be paid. You don't want to know how badly the world will hurt if that happens and all of a sudden people are wanting their slice of the $4.2 Quadrillion derivative pie. Make no mistake, if the black swan of the derivative market having the bottom fall out, means every economy in the world will be pretty much crushed. It would make the Great Depression seem like a holiday for many.

The USA practices Neo-Keynesian economics, not Keynesian. Even Lord Keynes said that his ideas would not work if the country had too much debt. Keynes specifically stated that government MUST pay off it's debt during the good times in order to be able to create it during bad times. We don't do that, we just keep adding to the debt, especially after VP Dick Cheney stated that "Deficits don't matter". Even Clinton didn't pay any of the debt off, he just fucked around with the accounting of it to hide some and move some off the balance sheet to look good.

Money isn't power, the ability to create and spend that money for services and items is what brings power, you don't think the politicians are going to give that up do you? Right now they can just buy your votes, it's so easy especially after the 17th Amendment was passed and Senators were to be elected by the easily duped public. All in the name of "Democracy".

NoDrama, clearly the god of econ on these forums, not me.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
NoDrama, clearly the god of econ on these forums, not me.
he knows his stuff. What people don't get is if government pays 10 people to dig a ditch then pays another 10 to fill it up, GDP rises. Yet nothing of value was made.
What people don't do is go the extra yard and ask where that money comes from. It comes from us. As a group, the people spend it more wisely than government.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
By the way " Brah" , there's only three or so who have posted here who have an understanding of Keynesian economics and how the theory work , along with the basic FACT the implementations of said theories within the context of the US have *never* been true Keynesian economics but instead Neo-Keynesian.


And you're not one of those with said understanding.
keep trying, nothing has ever been true 100 percent but it was close enough. And guess what champ, it has never worked. The economy thrives when the free market is allowed to work and the less the government meddles. The fact remains keynesian economics and big government WAS followed during the great depression. Later in life Keynes remarked it had gone to far and tried too much.
The simple answer is you cannot use bandaids and hope to fix something. Treat the cause and not the symptom. Keep government out of manipulating the economy and more importantly have transparency with the Federal Reserve and dont allow them to manipulate interest rates as they hand out favors.
The people through their purchasing power tell us the winners and losers and not some king
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
By the way " Brah" , there's only three or so who have posted here who have an understanding of Keynesian economics and how the theory work , along with the basic FACT the implementations of said theories within the context of the US have *never* been true Keynesian economics but instead Neo-Keynesian.


And you're not one of those with said understanding.
Why listen to you? You've been wrong about too much. The ones who follow Austrian economics told us about the housing collapse years before it happened. You haven't told us squat except "because you say so". Poser
 

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
The fact that "Finn Kydland" & "Edward Prescott" both got noble peace prizes for contradicting theories tells me Economics is no science but a bunch of bs. There my be a way to describe it but no one has found out what it is yet .
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Order someone else around , it won't get you real far with me. And I didn't bring Paul into it , Paulistas did. Now go yap your Chihuahua act at someone else , *YOU* have utterly and completely FAILED to stick to the topic within this thread , so your hypocrisy above rings VERY hollow in light of that failure to discuss " economics" Keynesian or otherwise.


Frustrates you when you issue orders and they dobn't get followed 'eh? Another characteristic of Rabid Paul Cultists.
Instead you'll vote for a President who claims that due process in the constitution includes the executive making unilateral decisions (even when deciding on whether other American's should live or die) ? Or are you going to look at alternatives?

The reason people tend to stand behind Paul (who by the way isn't perfect by any means) is because his message of freedom is timeless and rings clear. It's the same message many of the founding fathers had. It's not even about Paul so much as it is about being free.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Here let me just sum up the ENTIRE Paulista " arguement"............ " you're a Big , Stupid Meanie because you won't Vote for Ronnie-Poo and jump and down with us'uns going Rah Rah.".............


Get back to me when y'all got something worthwhile. And here's a bit of NEWS for you clowns , it's STILL America at this point ( at least until/if Paul get elected in which case it be fascism on the hoof) I'm NOT required to vote for whom YOU want me to , nor am I required to submit to you or your orders , nor am I required to maintain silence on a political canidate just because YOU say so.

And the demonstration of Supreme Arrogance of such attitudes say ALL that needs be said about the average Paulista Drone/Cultists.

Now y'all continue on trying to make me toe your line , and guess what I'm not alone.....ROTFL.
Your current President is arguing he can kill any American citizen he wants without any kind of oversight, and litters his cabinent and other leadership positions in government with corporate big wigs. And you're concerned about Paul becoming a fascist?
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
There's yet another one. Now find and repost that one too , where I made a claim of " knowing everything"...........which is of course much more applicable to punks who have to react with ad hominem and attempted controlfreakism when another individual refuses to think via the dictated method.


And the likes of YOU , labeling ANYONE as less than " openminded "...............that's so ludicrously hilarious that I seriously believe I broke a rib guffawing at the pure irony.........


You're just a Human Moebius Strip of Bullshit aren't you?
You certainly are acting like you know everything and I think you have called everyone in this thread stupid at least once. It's kind of sad how angry you are about this.
 

RoninAmok

Active Member
You certainly are acting like you know everything and I think you have called everyone in this thread stupid at least once. It's kind of sad how angry you are about this.

Ay yes , another repetition of the usual Mantra with ZERO address of the actual talking points , yet another idiotic example of argueing the individual and their right to speak as opposed to the questions.

Tell ya what , when attacked I'll attack back , if you're too bloody S T U P I D to add 2 and 2 on that issue then it's not on me , ya got that? Certain folks here seem to be quite used to doing a GREAT deal of screaming and bleating that's essentially all fluff and no substance in an effort to just shut people up and control what's said , especially with **anything** connected with Ron Paul............want to shut *me* up? Then you're gonna have to come do it personally , I'm not about to put up with some of the bully bullshit that goes on here , and quite frankly the impotency and frustration exhibited by certain folks when their pompous arrogance and orders are not bowed down to is HILARIOUS.

Want civil? The extend civility , gonna extend unpleasantness? Hey I'll return your donation........Do the math.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Ay yes , another repetition of the usual Mantra with ZERO address of the actual talking points , yet another idiotic example of argueing the individual and their right to speak as opposed to the questions.

Tell ya what , when attacked I'll attack back , if you're too bloody S T U P I D to add 2 and 2 on that issue then it's not on me , ya got that? Certain folks here seem to be quite used to doing a GREAT deal of screaming and bleating that's essentially all fluff and no substance in an effort to just shut people up and control what's said , especially with **anything** connected with Ron Paul............want to shut *me* up? Then you're gonna have to come do it personally , I'm not about to put up with some of the bully bullshit that goes on here , and quite frankly the impotency and frustration exhibited by certain folks when their pompous arrogance and orders are not bowed down to is HILARIOUS.

Want civil? The extend civility , gonna extend unpleasantness? Hey I'll return your donation........Do the math.
I'm not telling you to shut up. You jumped into this thread in full hostility mode due to a joke, which had to be pointed out to you and then you got even more upset. You should consider being less emotional about this. You started the fire.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Oh MY , golly gee ya found a typo to respond to after you were called out on inconsistencies in basic spelling from one who accuse others of being stupid with every second sentence.


And I just shortcut your action punk , because it bloody well WOULD have been a thread about how the " Glorious Savior Paul Will Save The World From The Spectre of Keynesian Economics"..............quit bullshitting folks about where the thread was headed.


Spamming nonsense? Is that like all your bullshit juvenile insults all over the place? You first on that one Twit.


Yeah I DO have an opinion , why would you give a shit , I mean ya already KNOW it all , you've already told us that about a thousand times. I mean it's a virtual impossibility that someone else might be as informed on such things and ever have put any degree of thought or study into...right? NNahhhhhh that couldn't happen , YOU were appointed to be The God of Economics here and DIRECT what opinion folks should hold.

I'm a Libertarian ( a real one not a Paulista) so just what the f*** do you THINK that I think about governmental spending and Keynesian economics in general , get a f***ing clue ya berk , if I'm stating that Paul spouts rehashed and plagiarised Von Mises that it REALLY might indicate that I tend towards the Austrian school of economics wouldn't it?


YA know , if you spent less time insulting folks and then sniveling when they won't take your bullshit you might find a fruitful discussion , you're too busy tossing your convenient labels around and smugly telling folks that they have to take your crap to find that discussion.


And see , folks DON'T have to take your crap.........and then you act like an impotent , frustrated loon when that fact is pointed.


Now it should be quite obvious to you that we can discuss this in some depth and at some length , whether we do so is *entirely* up to you , you want " civility" then extend the same , continue as you have so far with your chest-beating wanna-be dominance act and I'll continue to " defy" you...............and laugh my ass off at your frustrated impotence while doing so.

Balls in your court clown.
You are angry?
Try to be less condescending, you will get further.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Uh HUh............and you're proof is? As usual a loada bullshit personally oriented postulations and accusations. Fuck you AND those hypotheticals , hows THAT for some hostility there clown?

See what you *don't* seem to understand is that I a....don't give two shits about " the joke" and B........I'm about as far from " emotional" as it gets about this , I've seen a thousand and one of these sorts of arguements and I could sit there face to face with Parker and dispassionately tell him that he's a bitch with zero exhibited emotion whatsoever.

And of course the " you're so angry" , is nothing more than yet another deflective tactic utilised by those who are unable to directly address a given point and who wish THEIR opinion to be accepted. I don't accept opinion via the medium of emotion and I could give a shit who likes that or not.

Wanna see less rancor? Again civility given is civility gotten..........
I'm quite capable of articulating my opinions on the economy. I have studied economics (and realize it's one of the softest 'sciences' and I use the term loosely, out there) in school, you just don't seem interested in having a discussion. And yes, you are obviously very angry.
 

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
excuse me? Put up what i've been wrong about. Do it now.


Tell ya what idiot , you've missed a few things here , if you're too bloody stupid to figure out where *i* stand on the austrian school of thought then you're just bloody fucking blind , you just made a complete and total fool of yourself.

I had the common sense to divest myself of real estate except for a chunk of larsens bay property prior to the collapse , nows does that fact tell ya something there idiot?


Lets see here , you're running your mouth calling others " poser" while rehashing the same freshman levels concepts over and over ad nauseum as if you actually knew shit from shinola , all you're capable of is by rote reiteration and not much else.


Care to discuss something like the tradition of objective costs versus subjective valuation as in the austrian school? I doubt it , you have to wish to actually discuss anything whatsoever , you've made that quite obvious.


Ah well at least you have a puuuurrrddyyy mouth , bend over this here nice soft log will ya.
These FUCKING pixels and all this TEXT on my screen really got me RILED up GODAMNIT!

No, but really.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Keynes wrote an explanation of how "The General Theory" should be interpreted a couple years after he wrote it. Its like 10 pages long but I can't remember what it s called. Anyone know?
 

MrDank007

Well-Known Member
Keynesian economics doesn't work.
Keynes failed to take into account a global economy.
Keynes did not take into account our scale of debt.
Keynes did not take into account a global market that reacts to that scale of debt.
Acquiring bad and frivelous debt does not improve the economy
Gov manipulation is largely to blame for bubble bursting.

THe reason his theories are so widely accepted by our government is because they rationalize the expansion of government power in an economic form on paper. Between our 2 wars and massive increase in debt, we haven't created much in the way of the economy
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Why don't you try actually learning Keynes positions instead of just spouting random shit? To say Keynesianism does not take into account a global economy is laughable you tool. Keynes himself never argued perpetual debt was good. It seems you don't know what Keynesianism is IMO.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
The fact that "Finn Kydland" & "Edward Prescott" both got noble peace prizes for contradicting theories tells me Economics is no science but a bunch of bs. There my be a way to describe it but no one has found out what it is yet .
Then follow the ones who have been correct about the economy for the last 100 years. The ones who told us about the stock market crash before it happened in 1929. The same ones who told us about the dot com bubble and the same ones who told us about the housing collapse. All before it happened.
Obama won a Nobel peace prize too and we are in more countries now than when Bush was president.
 
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