Keynesian Economics

BuddhaC

Active Member
There isn't enough gold at $1,700 an ounce to cover all the debt? Revalue the gold and there will be, its just that easy,

Gold worked for 10,000 years, so far the longest lasting fiat currency has gone for almost 40 years.

EDIT: You don't even have to revalue the gold, if the world went to a gold standard, the prices of everything would change to reflect that new money. Cars wouldn't cost $40,000, they would cost say, 10 ounces of gold.
And in most of those 10,000 years growth was anaemic. Deflation has consequences, as I've already pointed out. Hasn't the dollar been around since at least the end of WWII?
 

BuddhaC

Active Member
i dont think we are out of the woods at all. Near bottom maybe but the recovery isn't going to make any big or sudden recovery. I think it will remain stagnant or crawl.
Companies are not spending because they are unsure of what the future may bring. In down times profits are used to retain employees and in research and development. No reason to increase production if you dont see people buying. And people are not buying.

Construction being up is partialy related to banks not getting rid of fore closures. Couldnt tell you to what extent though. Better to bulldoze them and write off the expense I guess.
Isn't the Obama admin selling off some of the govt backed housing with the understanding they would be rented?
Construction being up is pretty shocking, since the construction industry is very closely tied to the banking industry (for obvious reasons). As well, I don't know if that were true but it'd be retarded. Rent has been increasing impressively, this will drive up housing prices (because the amount you can make from renting is also used in calculation) but if you increase the supply you weigh down these effects so that rent isn't growing at a heavy rate and people won't have the pressure applied on them (or the increased housing prices from a lack of supply) to purchase a house instead of renting.

R&D Increases Production, it IS a form of investment. Companies (or other corporations) ARE spending, but they're spending on themselves. I know a year or two ago investment (pretty sure it was just one, but time sure does fly) was like 1 percent of 1.3 percent annual growth.

Sorry, my current focus is more on the history of banking since that's what I have on my reading list atm I've actually slacked off on keeping up on current events but for wannabe economists such as myself I would suggest the Fiscal Times. Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT go to the Economist until you have a solid economic background. They produce good data, but their interpretations are extremely prejudicial.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
In response to the Depression the Fed tightened monetary supply, is what he is talking about. They claim they didn't know what would happen if they did so, but I don't really believe them.
Raising the banks reserve limit twice. The tax on undistributed profits, payments to SS kicked in all during the depression within the depression late 36 early 37.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
[Bolded] Yea. No. There is simply not enough gold. The cost to acquire ANY excess gold would be too high for an entrepreneur. Additionally, something that gold does not often supply and when it does it is not consistent, is steady and low inflation. Which promotes consumer spending due to the erosion of purchasing power threw time (something that cannot occur if there's no inflation). If you throw that pensioner B.S. at will wipe your face with my tussie and point you to the COLA. (A.K.A. the CPI growth added to yearly pension obligations). Easy Credit is what causes booms and busts? Have you heard of the Great Moderation? And what about things that can't be controlled, war? The gold standard and war do not mix, and as the greenbacks showed having an ad hoc fiat system in place only for war can be disastrous (unlike the common belief that the gold standard led to horrible cycles of the late 1800s which were actually caused by government-bond reserves held by private and state banks and their in-elasticity.)
yes easy credit did. The concept of free money. When the Fed lowered the interest rates it led to mal investment. We saw that right before the stock market crash the dot com and housing bubble. It causes prices to rise artificially. It is the same thing that is causing the cost of college to rise so much.
Colleges no longer assume the risk of making loans so they raise prices. College costs 3k per year govt gives out the loan. Next year the price is 3.5k per year. Govt still gives out the loan. And so on.

Easy credit caused the big crash on the railroad bubble. The House of Cook received unlimited money.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
Deflation doesn't work because spending means you give up making money by simply holding it. This ruins consumption and consumption is 60-70% of our GDP. It would ruin us.
Not necessarily. as long as prices fall faster than wages that isn't a problem. When that happens your purchasing power gets better. Lower prices means higher demand. We saw that during the industrial revolution. Falling prices, lowered costs better purchasing power.
Different definitions of deflation need to be emphasized. Decreasing the money supply vs lowering prices.

"we will attempt intelligent and courageous deflation, and strike at government borrowing which enlarges the evil, and we will attack high cost of government...There hasn't been a recovery from the waste and abnormalities of war since the story of mankind was first written..." --Warren G. Harding
 

BuddhaC

Active Member
Not necessarily. as long as prices fall faster than wages that isn't a problem. When that happens your purchasing power gets better. Lower prices means higher demand. We saw that during the industrial revolution. Falling prices, lowered costs better purchasing power.
Different definitions of deflation need to be emphasized. Decreasing the money supply vs lowering prices.

"we will attempt intelligent and courageous deflation, and strike at government borrowing which enlarges the evil, and we will attack high cost of government...There hasn't been a recovery from the waste and abnormalities of war since the story of mankind was first written..." --Warren G. Harding
I'm so mad at you. Ask me why :3
 

BuddhaC

Active Member
yes easy credit did. The concept of free money. When the Fed lowered the interest rates it led to mal investment. We saw that right before the stock market crash the dot com and housing bubble. It causes prices to rise artificially. It is the same thing that is causing the cost of college to rise so much.
Colleges no longer assume the risk of making loans so they raise prices. College costs 3k per year govt gives out the loan. Next year the price is 3.5k per year. Govt still gives out the loan. And so on.

Easy credit caused the big crash on the railroad bubble. The House of Cook received unlimited money.
Speculators would borrow if they saw profit, how much is 2-5% when you're making a return of 19%-38%? The ideas looked genuine, and in fact they are... look at the Internet now, godaddy and other website adds are on tv, but the technology hadn't caught up with speculation. Mistakes happen. RCB ;)
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Well then good sire, you proved one very foremost economist wrong and that would be Mankíw, quite impressive. A little aggrevating since the edition I had read was post-1999 and should have caught this change, but it was only two years which would explain the mistake. Hats off to you! I could be pedantic and argue that the CPI-W has to do with wages and that the CPI-U is for specifically urban consumers but urbanites make up a big-ass chunk of our population so I'll not go that route xP.
Yep, why do they need so many different measures of inflation? Its easier to manage the illusion just like 3 card monty and shell games work much better when you use more than one shell or card.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
And in most of those 10,000 years growth was anaemic. Deflation has consequences, as I've already pointed out. Hasn't the dollar been around since at least the end of WWII?
The dollar(Fed reserve note) was brand spankin new on August 8, 1971.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
And in most of those 10,000 years growth was anaemic. Deflation has consequences, as I've already pointed out. Hasn't the dollar been around since at least the end of WWII?
Growth was anemic because of low population and lack of technology, not because there weren't enough pieces of paper floating around.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
I expected RP to lose this nomination, but that doesn't mean he hasn't awakened a fire in some other person who WILL make the difference.
A full audit of the Fed? Never happen, it would just be another whitewash. I would also like to see a full physical accounting of every ounce of gold in Ft Knox, which I suspect has very little but its been nearly 70 years since the last one and you hear very few people concerned about it.
Doug Wead said that if it comes down to giving their delegates in support to Romney they want to see an audit of the fed.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Deflation doesn't work because spending means you give up making money by simply holding it. This ruins consumption and consumption is 60-70% of our GDP. It would ruin us.
Excuse me? You'll have to elaborate because what you have said could be interpreted in so many different ways depending on context. It is obvious consumption would be slowed in such a system, but it wouldn't just stop. We certainly wouldn't have a market for automated egg crackers, and that's a good thing.
 

BuddhaC

Active Member
Excuse me? You'll have to elaborate because what you have said could be interpreted in so many different ways depending on context. It is obvious consumption would be slowed in such a system, but it wouldn't just stop. We certainly wouldn't have a market for automated egg crackers, and that's a good thing.
What I'm saying is that deflation punishes spenders. Spenders = Consumers. Why would I buy that brand new 2012 car for 50,000 when I know next year I can get a brand new 2013 car with even more amenities for 45,000 dollars? It's that economic calculation, which makes sense for the consumer, that causes the downward spiral of deflation. Some argue that unions screw up market reflexes and other say that the sticky theory dictates that there's usually going to be significant lag-time between the changes in prices and wages (I don't care how much sense it makes, no one likes to take a paycut).

EDIT:
This is fundamentally what happened to Japan that was their 'Lost Decade'.
 

BuddhaC

Active Member
Yep, why do they need so many different measures of inflation? Its easier to manage the illusion just like 3 card monty and shell games work much better when you use more than one shell or card.
Or maybe the Urban cost of living is higher than the rural cost of living. Maybe because wage growth is a whole different ball game from the cost of a changing bag of goods.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
What about the Sterling pound?
But that's pretty interesting, what did we use before that o.0? (Banknotes?)
Metal backing for the Pound was eliminated in 1931.

What did the USA use for money prior to 1971? gold and silver! Paper receipts that represented them, they called the paper receipts dollars too.

On August 8, 1971 President Nixon closed the gold convertibility window and the US dollar became wholly fiat.

Gold became legal for US citizens to own in 1974
 

BuddhaC

Active Member
Metal backing for the Pound was eliminated in 1931.

What did the USA use for money prior to 1971? gold and silver! Paper receipts that represented them, they called the paper receipts dollars too.

On August 8, 1971 President Nixon closed the gold convertibility window and the US dollar became wholly fiat.

Gold became legal for US citizens to own in 1974
Really? I thought that pragmatically specie payments on any bank receipt had been suspended for decades already.

Want to know where the word dollar came from :3
 
Top