Killing Beneficials?

Don't know if this should be considered advanced cultivation, but I am in FFOF and FF Happy Frog mix, and am about 25 days into flowering and the girls look great...I always seem to hit this mark beautifully, and then as flowering period goes along and I begin to add FF nutes (big bloom, tiger bloom, and a little grow big) I begin to get problems...

My question is do nutrients like what I mentioned above kill of beneficials in the soil that seem to do so well? And if so, what organic supplement lines would you recommend to initially start...Thanks

heelzballer said:

Don't know if this should be considered advanced cultivation, but I am in FFOF and FF Happy Frog mix, and am about 25 days into flowering and the girls look great...I always seem to hit this mark beautifully, and then as flowering period goes along and I begin to add FF nutes (big bloom, tiger bloom, and a little grow big) I begin to get problems...

My question is do nutrients like what I mentioned above kill of beneficials in the soil that seem to do so well? And if so, what organic supplement lines would you recommend to initially start...Thanks

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they don't kill them all off, but they don't provide an ideal environment for them to thrive. If you want to use those nutes, use a soiless medium. for soil,use teas. go into organic forums and read about brewing .https://www.rollitup.org/t/aact-bloom-tea-veg-tea-fungal-tea-myco-tea-recipes-from-the-outdoor-guys.516845/

Thanks will look into brews, it's something I've been wanting to get into for a while...In the meantime any word on if something like General Organics starter box would work?

heelzballer said:

Thanks will look into brews, it's something I've been wanting to get into for a while...In the meantime any word on if something like General Organics starter box would work?

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a awesome link for soil stuff
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/Home_Page.html
A basic tea recipe would be as follows, with the understanding that if larger or smaller quantities of water are used, change the amounts of additives relative to the amount of water.

a. 25 gallons of water, aerated to remove chlorine, add two teaspoons of a humic acid solution (preferably humic acid extracted from your own compost).

b. 1 to 2 tablespoons of humic acid diluted in 2 cups of water BEFORE adding to the compost tea water OR 1 to 2 tablespoons of fish hydrolysate (pre-diluted to neutralize the acid preservative according to the label on the container).

c. 1/2 cup of kelp mixed in 5 cups of water BEFORE addition to the compost tea

d. 5 pounds of good aerobic (good smelling, like deep forest soil) compost with excellent bacteria, fungi, protozoa in the compost. Using a microscope, assess the compost: Using a 1:5 dilution of compost, 400X total magnification, there should be a MINIMUM of thousands of bacteria in each field of view, 1 strand of fungal hyphae in each 5 fields, 1 flagellate or amoebae in each 5 to 10 fields of view and 1 beneficiall nematode per drop.

Additional foods if needed to improve fungi: 1 cup steel cut oats, or bran flour, or shrimp shells (no protein on the shells!) put in the compost bag with the compost

Replace humic acids with the same amount of fish hydrolysate if the plants need a nitrogen boost

NO MOLASSES!!!!!!!!

Stickied and saved for my reference....Thank you!!

heelzballer said:

...I always seem to hit this mark beautifully, and then as flowering period goes along and I begin to add FF nutes (big bloom, tiger bloom, and a little grow big) I begin to get problems...

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That's your problem, your bloom foods. As you've found out (the hard way) bloom foods do more harm than good. But brainwashing in this industry comes fast and furious, like Holder. And like many cause/effect relationships, you've placed blame on the wrong thing. For starts, you don't even know if there are any "beneficials" in your soil nor what they are capable of imparting regarding plant performance....it they're present.

Get the old electron microscope out of mouthballs and have a lookie see.

Good luck

Thanks UB, I would imagine there has to be some beneficials in the soil as I have only been giving them water with an even ph into FFOF and Happy Frog...I know that HF states there are mychorizzae already in the soil so hopefully they are entering into a symbiotic relationship with my root system...If and when I can afford electron microscope what would I be looking for? If the explanation is to long to write I would gladly appreciate a link. Many Thanks

heelzballer said:

Thanks UB, I would imagine there has to be some beneficials in the soil as I have only been giving them water with an even ph into FFOF and Happy Frog...I know that HF states there are mychorizzae already in the soil so hopefully they are entering into a symbiotic relationship with my root system...If and when I can afford electron microscope what would I be looking for? If the explanation is to long to write I would gladly appreciate a link. Many Thanks

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same link as i posted earlier
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/Video_Links.html

Was kidding about the mic.

Compost tea, really kicks up the microbe life and nutrient availability. As a basic tea, I've always done a shovel full of whatever I'm growing in, so that I'm promoting growth of whatever is in the soil im growing in, throw that in a 5 gal bucket, a couple tbs of molasses , and aerate for 24-48 hrs, or until there's a thick brown froth floating around. If you want you can add other crap to it: guano,worm casing, bene bacterias, fish emulsion,etc,etc. If you can't get a full shovel of your soil at least throw a handful or two in whatever your concoction is.

heelzballer said:

Don't know if this should be considered advanced cultivation, but I am in FFOF and FF Happy Frog mix, and am about 25 days into flowering and the girls look great...I always seem to hit this mark beautifully, and then as flowering period goes along and I begin to add FF nutes (big bloom, tiger bloom, and a little grow big) I begin to get problems...

My question is do nutrients like what I mentioned above kill of beneficials in the soil that seem to do so well? And if so, what organic supplement lines would you recommend to initially start...Thanks

Click to expand...

When u use synthetic nutrients especially cal-mag thats not organic or forms of it they will kill benes. Unless ur doing all organic grows beneficials and microbes arent as important.

U need to understand what role bene and microbes play in growing. When doing organic growd beneficials and microbes help break down the nutrients so they become available for uptake and also balance ph in ur medium. In hydro the benes will outperform bad types of bacteria and pathogens by creating a healthy environment for your roots. So if ur going either of those routes than ur microbes and benes play a much more significant role in ur grow.

If ur growing synthetically w bottled nutrients or making ur own from powder form. They will kill off alot of the benes as will water that hasnt been treated via RO or oxygenating it to remove chlorines and contaminants. So using the fox farm line up i would innoculate ur medium once a week with benes and microbes on non feeding days just to infuse the root zone but otherwise dont sweat it. They arent as important and actively necessary when doing synthetics. BOL

heelzballer said:

Don't know if this should be considered advanced cultivation, but I am in FFOF and FF Happy Frog mix, and am about 25 days into flowering and the girls look great...I always seem to hit this mark beautifully, and then as flowering period goes along and I begin to add FF nutes (big bloom, tiger bloom, and a little grow big) I begin to get problems...

My question is do nutrients like what I mentioned above kill of beneficials in the soil that seem to do so well? And if so, what organic supplement lines would you recommend to initially start...Thanks

Click to expand...

I see this post is several months old, but I was wondering how everything came out for you and if you fixed your "problems"? More specifically... What kind of problems are you experiencing specifically when you say "problems"? And they only occur when you start going into bloom?

Firs thing to remember is transition stage feeding. For the first few weeks your plants are still growing producing roots and are using alot of energy when they are in the stretch period. So continuing to use your grow nutrients for the first week of bloom and than reducing them to 50/50 week 2 with bloom nutrients may solve your "problems".

In general FF Nutrients are pretty good nutrients and that lineup that you are using is made specifically to use for flowering in that soil you are using. Make sure you PH is good and check your runoff PPM periodically as the OF Soil Mix has alot of good organic nutrients in the mix. This way you can make sure you arent gonna overfeed the plants. Most of the FF line up is primarily Organic but do include some synthetic salts. So some are fast acting while some are time released and are going to be broken down by the beneficial bacteria in your soil.

Adding additional enzymes and fulvic/humic acids can really help make sure your breaking down all the nutrients and your plants will thank you for it. Using enzymes and the fulvic help widen the range for nutrient uptake and also make the more readily available to your plants. Basically helps the roots absorb them easily while increasing the carbon exchanges in your soil which provide an aerobic environment for the rhizosphere.

There plenty of abundant benes and micro organisms in that mix. You can always add some nice teas every couple weeks if you want to give the soil a boost and a little charge. Good inexpensive bloom teas such as Budswell work very well or you can brew your own. Bountea is really good stuff also. But as long as you provide a good atmosphere and environment for the bacteria to grow and populate you dont really need to even do that as simply providing them carbohydrates they can feed off and convert nutrients into useable forms for the plants there plenty already in there!!

Before going into bloom when you are going to pot up to your finishing container try using the light warrior soilless mix and transplant your containers about a week to 10 days before you flip. This mix has no additional nutrients in the mix besides some mycos and benes and will give you better control over your plants. Than you can feed continuously every time you water without worrying about over feeding or burning your girls. And keep the Ph a little bit lower around like 6.4-6.5 since it is soilless but also contains organic components to it you want keep it between soilless and soil Ph range. So thats a good target to be in.

I know this is an older post but maybe it helps you or someone else experiencing or having issues with this soil or nutrients.

pk_boosted2 said:

When u use synthetic nutrients especially cal-mag thats not organic or forms of it they will kill benes. Unless ur doing all organic grows beneficials and microbes arent as important.

U need to understand what role bene and microbes play in growing. When doing organic growd beneficials and microbes help break down the nutrients so they become available for uptake and also balance ph in ur medium. In hydro the benes will outperform bad types of bacteria and pathogens by creating a healthy environment for your roots. So if ur going either of those routes than ur microbes and benes play a much more significant role in ur grow.

If ur growing synthetically w bottled nutrients or making ur own from powder form. They will kill off alot of the benes as will water that hasnt been treated via RO or oxygenating it to remove chlorines and contaminants. So using the fox farm line up i would innoculate ur medium once a week with benes and microbes on non feeding days just to infuse the root zone but otherwise dont sweat it. They arent as important and actively necessary when doing synthetics. BOL

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It only kills the top layer of benes, the soil actually filters it so by like 5" deep everything below is fine.

Synthetic urea doesn't kill beneficial bacteria, it feeds them. Blanket statements like "synthetic chemicals will kill benes" are ignorant. A chemical being synthetic or not makes absolutely no difference to the bacteria you're feeding it to.

churchhaze said:

Synthetic urea doesn't kill beneficial bacteria, it feeds them. Blanket statements like "synthetic chemicals will kill benes" are ignorant. A chemical being synthetic or not makes absolutely no difference to the bacteria you're feeding it to.

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I do not disagree on what you said Church. But I would like to read some literature on the matter of mixing synthetic and organic. Do you have any links to obtain more info? Thanks.