Kucinich Needs Your Support NOW!

mockingbird131313 · Nov 11, 2007

GrowRebel said:
What part of providing a link to your source don't you understand? The fact that you haven't means you can't.

I sourced the NRA web site (twice).

NBC News

Wikipedia

Google - Newspapers

What part of "source" don't you understand? The fact that you haven't accepted the reality, means you can't.

Remember, I said I don't have a problem with your message. It's your messenger that is a public joke.

towlie · Nov 11, 2007

Mockingbird. I apologize for jumping in here. I stumbled across your statements, and was curios if youd really back them. But so far, youve provided only 1-liners that appear slightly true (when taken out of context) or based on hearsay and innuendo. You could have impressed me by making a clear and convincing argument, but clearly you are not prepared to back anything youve said and it appears youre probably just regurgitating things youve heard.

Youve said among other things, that Kucinich is an admitted communist. Do you even know what this means??? Several times now a source has been requested. If your argument is even slightly intellectually honest youll have no problem providing a quote or writing whereas Kucinich advocates a society where all economic and social activity is controlled by totalitarian state subjugated by a single self-perpetuating political party. (Currently tapping my finger while waiting.)

Ill admit that the whole Shirley MacLaine / UFO thing made me raise an eyebrow in the democratic debate (it wasnt an interview as you insinuate, so thats one reason I think youre just regurgitating information youve heard rather than committing any kind intellectual thinking.) Ill also admit that Ive had no time to investigate this further but this is of little consequence as every candidate seems to think there is an invisible man up in the sky an all knowing omnipotent man (not woman, life-force or chi) and admittedly base their life on archaic, highly modified, error riddled document filled with absurd creation theories, advocating horrible retribution & intolerance, etc, etc.

So Kucinich believes in UFOs. Great! So this is the lot we have to choose from This says as much about our society as the candidates Youll have to excuse me for being slightly more concerned about the 8.7 million uninsured and impoverished American Children. From what Ive seen, the character assassination (ala swift boating) style argument youre presenting is more based on distraction rather than anything substantive. So now the only two candidates that are truly addressing poverty (Kucinich & Paul) are subjugated to the realm of wacko, and we are left with Hillarys doomed to fail health plan and from what I can tell, you are an unknowing pawn in this scenario.

mockingbird131313 · Nov 11, 2007

towlie, you are well spoken. Some of my Kucinich information has come from reading his bios and other information has come from listening to pundits. Regardless how I feel about a candidate I am always left with the concern that the other shoe may drop at any moment. I was shocked to learn Mr. McGovern was a distinguished WWII pilot with a Purple Heart. I was amazed that Mr. Carter was very anti-nuclear even though he is a nuclear engineer. I have been appalled that Al Gore flys around the country in a private jet. The amount of disingenuous BS that has floated to the surface from both the Clinton and Bush II administrations would choke Chesapeake Bay. So at this point, nothing about ANY candidate is a surprise; either good or bad.

But, every time I observe Kucinich I see a clown who lies and deceives. For instance, someone, perhaps Kucinich, should be serving Federal Prison time over that Cleveland Power Company debacle.

I did not expect a school assignment here requiring a significant amount of research, given such a vast amount of evidence is in the public domain. However, I provided enough support of my aspersions. Remember, I did not have a problem with the notion that Bush lied. My issue is that Kucinich lies and should be doing gags on SNL, not in Congress. After all, if Kucinich told the truth, he had ample opportunity to skew Slick-Willy and Butch, didn't t he?

Harry Truman said it best, at many occasions, such as in the book Plain Speaking: An Oral Biography of Harry S. Truman, by Merle Miller. Mr. Truman said it really didn't matter if a candidate was a democrat or a republican, a liberal or a conservative. You just have to know, that he will always tell you the truth.

Amen brother.

GrowRebel · Nov 11, 2007

mockingbird131313 said:
towlie, you are well spoken. Some of my Kucinich information has come from reading his bios and other information has come from listening to pundits.
But, every time I observe Kucinich I see a clown who lies and deceives. For instance, someone, perhaps Kucinich, should be serving Federal Prison time over that Cleveland Power Company debacle.

I did not expect a school assignment here requiring a significant amount of research, given such a vast amount of evidence is in the public domain. However, I provided enough support of my aspersions. My issue is that Kucinich lies and should be doing gags on SNL, not in Congress. After all, if Kucinich told the truth, he had ample opportunity to skew Slick-Willy and Butch, didn't t he?

.

You claim you got this info from a bio ... well then post the link and let us see it for ourselves ... if you make accusations you need to back them up ... with links to your source ... if you want to be creditable ... since you haven't ... then you are not.

You say he lies, but you fail to state what these lies are. Show us your source with links. You can't take pundits at their word ... sometimes they're right sometimes they are wrong.

So I will say it again. What part of providing links don't you understand? :roll:

medicineman · Nov 11, 2007

I think you'll find when confronted with legitimate questions regarding their positions, a few of these right wingers, just like their Idle, Rush Limbaugh, make shit up and swear to it. It amazes me how creative they can be, kinda reminds me of that book by Al Franken, "Lies and the lying liars that tell them". These holes actually start believing their own lies and eventually they are trying to convince everyone else that they are true, Rediculous.

ViRedd · Nov 11, 2007

medicineman said:
I think you'll find when confronted with legitimate questions regarding their positions, a few of these right wingers, just like their Idle, Rush Limbaugh, make shit up and swear to it. It amazes me how creative they can be, kinda reminds me of that book by Al Franken, "Lies and the lying liars that tell them". These holes actually start believing their own lies and eventually they are trying to convince everyone else that they are true, Rediculous.

Man, if that isn't the kettle calling the pot black, I don't know what is! Time after time, I've asked you to provide links to back up your assertions, and you very seldom do.

Same thing with GrowRebel. Both of you just spew hate and have really nothing of substance to offer other than your hate for the "rich," "Bush," ... or anyone who disagrees with your (both of you) misguided politics. Bah! May a viper inject venom up your noses!

And by the way, why does one have to provide a link to prove the comunistic tendencies of anyone in the democrat party? As I've said many times here ... the term "progressive" is nothing more than a comfortable term for the statists in the democrat party to hide behind.

Vi

mockingbird131313 · Nov 11, 2007

OK, you asked for more specific moments of transcendental Kucinchisms, and you have it. I have citations from left, right, and center. Plus, one from Kucinich himself.

Good luck, and good reading to all.

First go to: http://www.strongsvillegop.com/index2.htm
This web site is devoted to keeping up with Dennis the Menace. Its really a funny site.

Next go to: http://www.realchange.org/kucinich.htm
Here is an except:
Dennis Kucinich is a very scrappy little (5'7") guy with a tough background. As a kid, his parents moved constantly, cramming 7 kids into 2 bedroom apartments or even, at times, a car parked outside the steel mill where his dad worked. He was elected as the nation's youngest mayor (of Cleveland) in 1977, and was known mostly for scrapping with established politicians, banks and just about everybody else. After he fired his police chief -- live, on the 6 O'Clock news -- he was so unpopular that he wore a bulletproof vest when he threw out the first pitch at an Indian's baseball game, and had police sharpshooters lined up all along the roof of the building.
After he was unceremoniously booted from office in his 1979 reelection fight, though, he drifted toward California and New Mexico, living for a while in his "dear friend" Shirley MacLaine's house, and began what he calls ""a journey into the poetry of my own life." Now, he has made quite a journey from scrappy poor kid to quixotic New Age lefty presidential candidate.
Finally, Entrance Exam to the Space Academy, go to: The gaffes of Dennis Kucinich. - By William Saletan and Avi Zenilman - Slate Magazine

Follow These Other Citations:

On Mental Stability
http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0902-10.htm
Dennis is very proud of this speech where he complains that people are suffocating in attics and we need to ship 78,000 troops and supplies home immediately to save the lives of Katrina victims. I cannot understand the proper connection here.

Floor Statement of Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich:
The Supplemental for Hurricane Katrina

We have plenty of work to do here at home. It is time for America to come home and take care of its own people who are drowning in the streets, suffocating in attics, dying from exposure to the elements, oppressed by poverty and illness, wracked with despair and hunger and thirst.
The time is NOW to bring back to the United States the 78,000 National Guard troops currently deployed overseas into the Gulf Coast region.
The time is NOW to bring back to the US the equipment which will be needed for search and rescue, for clean up and reclamation.

Congressional Democrats Refuse to Go Along With Kucinich Measure, Republicans Vote to Bring the Measure to the Floor
By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 6, 2007
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHENEY_IMPEACHMENT?SITE=TXHOU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Kucinich has long pushed for a vote to impeach Cheney, but has failed to win the backing of the Democratic leadership. After Kucinich introduced the resolution, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., immediately moved to table it.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said "impeachment is off the table" and Congress is focused on responsibly getting U.S. troops out of Iraq, covering 10 million uninsured children and meeting national priorities long neglected by the Bush administration, said her spokesman Nadeam Elshami.
"We're going to help them out, to explain themselves," said Rep. Pete Sessions, R-Texas. "We're going to give them their day in court."

Kucinich has long pushed for a vote to impeach Cheney, but has failed to win the backing of the Democratic leadership. After Kucinich introduced the resolution, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., immediately moved to table it.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said "impeachment is off the table"

mockingbird131313 · Nov 11, 2007

Reuters 30 Oct 2007
"I seriously believe we have to start asking questions about his mental health," Kucinich, a quirky, long-shot candidate in the race for his party's presidential nomination in the November, 2008 election. "There's something wrong. He does not seem to understand his words have real impact."
..
Kucinich spoke to the editorial board of The Philadelphia Inquirer ahead of a Democratic debate in Philadelphia.

Rush Limbaugh, 31 Oct 2007
Dennis Kucinich, presidential candidate, Democrat, said he saw a UFO, has questioned President Bush's mental health in light of comments he made about a nuclear Iran precipitating World War III. That's just rich, isn't it? That's just really, really rich.
Flip Flop of Position
Sunday, February 23, 2003 by the San Francisco Chronicle
Ohio Presidential Hopeful Pivots Over to Pro-Choice Camp Ex-abortion foe Kucinich defends move
Flip Flop of Position
San Fran. Chronicle, Carolyn Lochhead, Wash. Bureau
Rift deepens among gays as rights bill moves to House floor
Democrats voting against the bill were Reps. Linda Sanchez of Lakewood (Los Angeles County), Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, Rush Holt of New Jersey and Yvette Clarke of New York. The bill passed 27 to 21, with three Republicans in support

Flip Flop of Position
St. Petersburg Times, October 10, 2007
In May, the Ohio congressman and presidential candidate said on "Political Connections" that he'd campaign in Florida no matter what the DNC primary rules decree: "I don't think you can tell a politician not to campaign. That's like telling a bird not to fly or a fish not to swim."
But now the Kucinich campaign tells us he's signed the pledge to IA, NV, NH and SC not to campaign in any state violating the DNC schedule: "We signed a public pledge recently, promising to stand with New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and the DNC-approved 'early window', and the action we are taking today protects New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary status, and Nevada's early caucus..."

towlie · Nov 11, 2007

Thanks for the kind words Mockingbird. Ill admit that those links are laugh out loud funny and theres no way that little guy is 5-7 Theyre clearly smear pages however, and Im sure you could find similar sites sullying each candidate. Certainly Hillary has the most and Im embarrassed to admit that I wished they worked better. I dont think I can take another administration based in ignoble nepotism. Personally I think the 22 amendment should extend to immediate relatives just to keep her from running but thats another thread.

Honestly. If Kucinich has an ounce of sanity Ill bet hed admit that he doesnt stand a snow balls chance in hell of winning the presidency. The reason I herald Paul & Kucinich is that I think they represent their parties true, unperverted ideologies. Right or wrong theyre main purpose is to keep a realistic dialogue. And ultimately I believe the healthiest governments are formed from contentious debate.

This is why Guiliani flies off the handle when Ron Paul presents 911 in ways that cannot be bottled in clever marketing campaigns that exploit the tragedy. And its also why I feel compelled to defend him when I hear people call him a communist. While I get the point, hes clearly left of center, but hes most definitely never advocated the US government acquisition of all domestic commerce. I hear this shit all the time during socialized medicine debates and its always an argument based on conventional wisdom, or Memes if you prefer the Richard Dawkins terminology.

So my point is that Kucinich is not a guy to be feared because as youve already admitted hell never win. So when asked about homosexuality during the debates and hes the only one (Democrat or Republican) with the courage to use the word equality I say attack his words but dont perpetuate the smear campaign. This is designed at subverting debate.

GrowRebel · Nov 11, 2007

ViRedd said:
Same thing with GrowRebel.
And by the way, why does one have to provide a link to prove the comunistic tendencies of anyone in the democrat party? As I've said many times here ... the term "progressive" is nothing more than a comfortable term for the statists in the democrat party to hide behind.

Vi

It's not my problem if you're too stupid to look at the links I provide ... and of course only a bushie would make a statmemt like this.

GrowRebel · Nov 11, 2007

mockingbird131313 said:
Reuters 30 .."

Fat boy Limberger and smear websites as a source ... well that fit with your rhetoric. The link to the SFC lead to the home page not to an article. Common dreams merely reported his speech and you tried to twist it to suit your rhetoric.

He was right in that speech about Katrina survivors.

Bad try and definitely no cigar. :roll:

mockingbird131313 · Nov 11, 2007

You and I agree on almost every point. I am thrilled that non-conventional candidates are willing to come forth and state their opinions at the forum. My surprise, after doing hours of additional research at your behest, is that Kucinich was more main stream than I thought. He is NOT a raging lunatic. But, he is pretty far off the beaten path.

The thing that gets me the most is his hypocrisy. He condemns the republicans for bad behavior and then will stand on the floor of Congress and do same stunts, he has just condemned. Mr. Truman often complained about members of both parties, because they demagogue the issues. Kucinich does this probably more than any other candidate. This is my point about lies.

For instance, when he claims that the levy breaks in New Orleans is the fault of "the governement" he was saying the Bush government failed. However, the report occured in 2001. The Bush administration did not have much time to correct a decades old problem. That approach is really a bald faced lie, encouraging unrest and hatred. There were plenty of people to rest this issue of neglect with. So I believe when Kucinich brings a one-sided dishonest approach to the cameras and microphones, it is a lie.

Also, with regards to your point about other candidates having hit sites, I am sure you are correct. My challenge was just to proffer citations, in print, of bad behavior. Because, a number of people on this site, said my accusation was too large. That has been done. Anybody can do a Google search. They have at least 20000 choices. And at least 20 percent do not flatter this candidate.

Finally, Kucinich is a communist. His own web sites read like the Manifesto. That is sufficent proof to support my alligation. I wish someone around here could prove to me that Dennis the Menace was not a communist.

Funny thing is this, Kucinich supporters rail at the suggestion that the Congressman is a communist. But most will say Bush or Cheney are fascist. From where I sit, both arguements look pretty well reasoned.

I encourage everyone to support their candidate of choice and not resort to name-calling.

silk · Nov 12, 2007

GrowRebel said:
3. José Padilla was tried on trumped up charges to help the pretence of "fighting the terrorist. Only brownshirt like you think of this as credible.

5. Yeah ... it DOES matter that the 16th amenmend was not ratified. Only a brownshirt would make such a statement.

Brown shirt??? Are you calling Vi a Nazi???

silk · Nov 12, 2007

closet.cult said:
VI- on frontline 2 nights ago there was a report on all people the u.s. has carted away to illegal detention prisons. now, not all these guys are americans. and not all of them were on american soil. but all of them should have the same rights as american citizens. BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME. you know: "we hold these truths to be self evident. that ALL men are created equal."

I don't know why you think people not of U.S. citizenship should have the same rights. I do agree that the U.S. should set the highest standard and treat these people as if they have rights of the citizens.

However, it's way too easy to cite specific instances where some text supports your arguments and forget the rest.

I suggest you first start with the idea that "ALL men are created equal" and then remind me what a woman is. Next start at the beginning of the U.S. constitution and tell me what the declaration is.

Here is a hint: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

silk · Nov 12, 2007

mockingbird131313 said:
You win the laugh of the day award. Funny!

silk · Nov 12, 2007

mockingbird131313 said:
The thing that gets me the most is his hypocrisy. He condemns the republicans for bad behavior and then will stand on the floor of Congress and do same stunts, he has just condemned. Mr. Truman often complained about members of both parties, because they demagogue the issues. Kucinich does this probably more than any other candidate. This is my point about lies.

This is a very interesting point to me. Many of the candidates are also in Congress. What can be more clear than a voting record? I haven't been following congressional voting records lately. However when I did before the last election I found the evidence disgusting.

The [SIZE=-1]demagogy[/SIZE] is the proof in the pudding as far as I am concerned. Any candidate that doesn't have the track record that matches their current presidential platform bid is suspect, highly suspect...

mockingbird131313 · Nov 12, 2007

Silk, thank you.

Secondly, right or wrong, it appears the US has had a two tier view of people on the ground. If you are a foreign national, without a visa or proper passport you are in trouble if caught. At least historically. If you are caught with a weapon you are assumed a criminal. If you have a weapon and are from a hostile country, you may be deemed a spy.

Often, foreign born criminals and spies are viewed to have no protected rights on US soil.

But, it seems like past practice has no real meaning. Because every recent swinging dick that rents the White House has thrown out past precedent.

closet.cult · Nov 12, 2007

silk said:
I don't know why you think people not of U.S. citizenship should have the same rights. I do agree that the U.S. should set the highest standard and treat these people as if they have rights of the citizens.

However, it's way too easy to cite specific instances where some text supports your arguments and forget the rest.

I suggest you first start with the idea that "ALL men are created equal" and then remind me what a woman is. Next start at the beginning of the U.S. constitution and tell me what the declaration is.

Here is a hint: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

first, that statement highlighted in blue is all i am asking for. those in detention prisons: some ARE americans and others are not. but they are being held by americans and we are acking like terrorists.

second: i see no distinction between the rights of men and women. do you?

GrowRebel · Nov 12, 2007

silk said:
Brown shirt??? Are you calling Vi a Nazi???

No ... I called him a brownshirt which he is ... you called him a Nazi ... if the shoe fits ...

People should have the same rights as Americans because they are HUMAN BEINGS ... and people are INOCENT until proven guilty ... a concept I'm sure you and bird find difficult to comprehend.

How do you two know that these people being held are criminals? Because the illegitimate bush regime and their propaganda machine told you so? :roll:

... and it's bullshit about the illegitimate bush not having enough time to correct the levy ... the asswipe cut the funding ... :spew:

mockingbird131313 · Nov 12, 2007

GrowRebel said:
No ... I called him a brownshirt which he is ... you called him a Nazi ... if the shoe fits ...

People should have the same rights as Americans because they are HUMAN BEINGS ... and people are INOCENT until proven guilty ... a concept I'm sure you and bird find difficult to comprehend.

How do you two know that these people being held are criminals? Because the illegitimate bush regime and their propaganda machine told you so?

... and it's bullshit about the illegitimate bush not having enough time to correct the levy ... the asswipe cut the funding ...

Back to name calling again. Which means you can't make an intelligent argument. How ignorant. How sad.

Which, by the way, you can't follow links (I knew that would be hard for you). Limbaugh's comments were about an Associated Press story related to Kucinich, and it was linked. So, to you I suppose this means Limbaugh, The AP, and I have conspired to thwart your candidates chances?

I know you have trouble with reading comprehension, but, I voiced no opinions in my last post. I only stated the facts. If a foreign national is found on US soil, with a weapon, they have NO rights under US law. They could be executed on the spot. This has happened for 200 years in our country. Does this fact somehow tie into your Limbaugh, AP, and mockingbird conspiracy theory?

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Kucinich Needs Your Support NOW!

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