L.E.D. grow lights?

J

justthefacts

Active Member
Hi,
There is so much talk about the LED grow lights and just not enough data!

Someone has got to test these things, so
here ya go, here are some photos...

I like the Lumigrow lights the best. I considered the theoreme too, maybe someone else can try that one...

The unit seems really well built. It runs incredibly cool. , it's blue (oooh pretty...) and you can adjust the red / Blue balance. I think I might be able to use this light for veg and flowering.

Here is what I have so far.

setup - 2 lights, 500 watts total. table 3x6, sativa strain
Plants were vegg'ed under different lights and then placed under the lumigrow lights for flowering.
This photo after 21 days of flowering.

It is a little weird working in the magenta pink light, one thing that is bizarre is when I leave the room, everything looks intensely green for just a second.

I asked lumigrow tech support about this, they said that your eyes compensate for the lack of green while looking at the light from the lumigrow light. When you look at normally illuminated areas, your eyes overcompensate...

Like any powerful light, they suggest protective eyewear when working around the light.
 

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Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
justthefacts said:
Hi,
There is so much talk about the LED grow lights and just not enough data!

Someone has got to test these things, so
here ya go, here are some photos...
Click to expand...

People have tested/tried them before and what it all boils down to is they work damn good IF you have enough of them and position them all over and around your plants and even in between them.

I mentioned it earlier, at least I believe I mentioned it in this thread but it may have been another that is about LED’s and a grow thread I followed at another site a few years back was an all LED and it was FANTASTIC but it was only fantastic because the guy had the bucks to buy a ton of lights and virtually surround the plants with them top, sides and in between them.

His plants were maybe the most lush plants I have ever seen and even the bottom branches had big buds on them instead of smaller ones or popcorn buds like so many people will get.

So they work and they work well but you can’t get off cheap and expect good results. They do not have the light penetration needed so you have to augment that by adding lower lights on the sides and even if possible in between your plants. If you have the bucks for as many lights as is needed you cannot beat LED’s but if you try to do it with a setup that more or less emulates a CFL or a HID setup you will not begin to get the results you could get with enough lights. You may still think your results are good but they can be AMAZING when you totally flood your plants with LED lighting from any and every direction.
 
J

justthefacts

Active Member
I have heard the stuff about penetration before and I have a question. So far as I understand, a photon from an LED is the same as a photon from the sun or any artificial light source. It's ability to penetrate is the same. What is boils down to, it seems to me, is that any light will penetrate the same.


So the basic idea of an LED light (in theory) is to put out as many photons in the red and blue spectrum (leaving out geen, yellow,etc ) as the light it claims to replace (in the case of my lumigrow lights, a 600 watt HPS) Lets assume for a moment that their claim is not just lies, damm lies, and marketing. If the two lights then are equal in their ability to produce red and blue photons, how can they be less able to penetrate?

How does one verify the claims of the LED fixture manufacturer? According to my brief internet seaches we need something that can measure "radiometric" power in specific bandwidths. The tool for the job seems to be a radiospectrometer and it's cost is way out of my league.
 
southern homegrower

southern homegrower

Well-Known Member
ledgrower i would like to talk to u. i am thinking about getting a procyon 100 w led.have done research and it sounds good. just not a lot of info out there. or i just cant find it.
 
GrowGreenGreen

GrowGreenGreen

Well-Known Member
justthefacts said:
I have heard the stuff about penetration before and I have a question. So far as I understand, a photon from an LED is the same as a photon from the sun or any artificial light source. It's ability to penetrate is the same. What is boils down to, it seems to me, is that any light will penetrate the same.


So the basic idea of an LED light (in theory) is to put out as many photons in the red and blue spectrum (leaving out geen, yellow,etc ) as the light it claims to replace (in the case of my lumigrow lights, a 600 watt HPS) Lets assume for a moment that their claim is not just lies, damm lies, and marketing. If the two lights then are equal in their ability to produce red and blue photons, how can they be less able to penetrate?

How does one verify the claims of the LED fixture manufacturer? According to my brief internet seaches we need something that can measure "radiometric" power in specific bandwidths. The tool for the job seems to be a radiospectrometer and it's cost is way out of my league.
Click to expand...
@ Justthefacts, I've heard the same argument re: canopy penetration. One of the differences with LED is that each emitter (diode) sends very directional light, straight down. This is basically why an LED fixture needs no reflector. I just employ shiny wall covering and a light mover, and I've got excellent penetration. Even my girlfriend has noticed the improvement, now that we got the mover... ;-)

I've got crazy hairs all the way down to the bucket.
 
TeaTreeOil

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
I have this to add, if you think light(lumens/lux) is not additive(I'm laughing at you, but ya, here goes):

If I had three spotlights, red, green, and blue, and focues them into a single spot, you'd get white light.

Demonstration:

 

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J

justthefacts

Active Member
Hi Brick Top,
I get what you are saying about the ability of the light dependent on the setup and using enough LED fixtures. Given the high cost of LED units , it seems an expensive proposition to outfit a room. ( I calculate that there seems to be an average of about 6 dollars a watt for LED fixtures, versus about 2 bucks a watt for HPS , given 1600 for the LumiGrow light and about 600 for an hps rig... )
Now the LED manufacturers claim that they are equivelent to a light that is about double the power ( for example LumiGrow claims equivelance to a 600 watt HPS , sunshine wildly claims to equal a 1500 watt, and theoreme claims to equal a 600 watt. ) that would put the "effective watts " per dollar to equal about 3 bucks a watt.

So we are now down to a buck a watt difference. That is indeed significant, but if you are a long term grower, then the cost of power starts to make a difference. I pay about .25 a kilowatt hour, plus I have to run really expensive airconditioning.... I think that , if the lights produce satisfactory results, I am going to start seeing a payback in less than a year. That is going to be worth it to me. If I get a decent yield, then I don't care what they cost, I am going to get my money back in just a few harvests.
 
M

Moonkeysniffle

Active Member
I know I am new to this site but I have been doing a lot of research on LED's. I would really like to see someone do an equivalent test of LED wattage to HPS wattage. Not test a 300w LED to a 600w HPS. How about someone test a 600w LED to a 600w HPS? I think this would be very interesting and I don't have wonder if people might start changing their minds about LED's. Don't get me wrong I know a lot of it all comes back to cost, but if we could take that all away for a second and just look at the yeild and quality of the yeild, I think it would be very interesting. Just my two cents. I agree tho that there is some good info on this thread and a lot of bull arguing. Kinda sad.. peace
 
Spliffious

Spliffious

Well-Known Member
Is anyone still around wanting to talk LED lighting. Specifically UFO model 90w.... Ebay special from Cali.....? I'd like to here some good and bad stuff about the product.

:bigjoint:
 

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G

Ganja Alchemy

Active Member
Wow I'm impressed that someone is actually putting some of these Hi-Tech LED claims to the test. From what I gather the top 3 products on the market right now are the LumiGrow and TI 600 and the Procyon.

Sorry Sunshine Systems and the UFO's and any other mass produced LED's coming out of China...No Offense... Your Product Claims Are Bogus and the products over-priced for the technology used in the design.

I like the fact that the LumiGrow is made here in the USA. And the unit uses the 5 watt Phillips Luxeon Bulbs. The technology is from Silicon Valley and the LG 250 seems like a better design than the TI 600. I noticed to that the TI 600 uses more electricity. I think the product runs at 330 watts and the LG at 260 watts... 70 watts difference it all adds up.

The Procyon is an alright unit and the red spectrum they use is only like in the 620 range.

I took alook at the TI Smart Bar and I don't want to have to deal with another contraption. Water cooled is a neat idea...overkill. No Go on the TI Smartbar

HHHMMM seems like the LED race is heating up and it appears the technology is finally avaliable and growers can now get results.

I'm betting on LumiGrow.
 
James Bond

James Bond

Well-Known Member
Ganja Alchemy said:
Wow I'm impressed that someone is actually putting some of these Hi-Tech LED claims to the test. From what I gather the top 3 products on the market right now are the LumiGrow and TI 600 and the Procyon.

Sorry Sunshine Systems and the UFO's and any other mass produced LED's coming out of China...No Offense... Your Product Claims Are Bogus and the products over-priced for the technology used in the design.

I like the fact that the LumiGrow is made here in the USA. And the unit uses the 5 watt Phillips Luxeon Bulbs. The technology is from Silicon Valley and the LG 250 seems like a better design than the TI 600. I noticed to that the TI 600 uses more electricity. I think the product runs at 330 watts and the LG at 260 watts... 70 watts difference it all adds up.

The Procyon is an alright unit and the red spectrum they use is only like in the 620 range.

I took alook at the TI Smart Bar and I don't want to have to deal with another contraption. Water cooled is a neat idea...overkill. No Go on the TI Smartbar

HHHMMM seems like the LED race is heating up and it appears the technology is finally avaliable and growers can now get results.

I'm betting on LumiGrow.
Click to expand...
With only two posts, I'm guessing your a salesperson. LED=inferior at present time.
 
Spliffious

Spliffious

Well-Known Member
James Bond said:
With only two posts, I'm guessing your a salesperson. LED=inferior at present time.
Click to expand...

3 day money back guarantee..... wtf? should i do? I it worth experimenting with or is it a waste of time and money? 90w ufo 80 red 10 blue? It's taking forever to get to me... and I'm just a few states away... wtf again? :wall:
 
James Bond

James Bond

Well-Known Member
Spliffious said:
3 day money back guarantee..... wtf? should i do? I it worth experimenting with or is it a waste of time and money? 90w ufo 80 red 10 blue? It's taking forever to get to me... and I'm just a few states away... wtf again? :wall:
Click to expand...
Lol, "3 day money back guarantee" what the hell are you going see in 3 days that will help you decide if the product is effective?
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
James Bond said:
LED=inferior at present time.
Click to expand...

LED lighting is anything but inferior to other types of grow lights and is in fact far superior.

Where the problems are found is that all LED’s are expensive and the high quality ones are very expensive.

Because of that most pot growers, who normally do not have large budgets, purchase low quality LED’s and in low numbers.

They do not purchase high quality LED’s and they do not purchase enough LED’s. Also most pot growers have little to no idea of how to use them in the best way.

What that all adds up to is people purchased garbage and purchased to few and used them incorrectly and were unhappy with the results they got from them and blamed the lighting instead of their poor choice of what to buy, not buying enough of them and not knowing how to use them properly.

Then they say they are inferior and that they are unproven.

NASA has had fantastic success growing both on earth and in space using nothing but LED lighting. LED’s have been proven to be far superior to any other form of grow lighting.

No other form of grow lighting puts out 100% PAR light. No other form of grow lighting puts of as little heat. No other form of grow lighting uses so little energy. No other form of grow lighting has a life expectancy that comes close to that of high quality LED’s. Some high quality LED’s can last 11 years under continual use without any degradation of their 100% PAR light.

One smaller LED light that only uses 80 watts of power exceeds the amount of light put off by a 400 watt HID grow light and it is 100% PAR light.

It uses highly efficient 1 watt LED’s, uses only the exact spectrums required for photosynthesis, and uses wide angle directional bulbs. The 1 watt LED is one of the most efficient light sources in the world (lumens per watt).

By using only the spectrum required, no light is wasted in the spectrums of light that do little or nothing for a plants growth – such as green light.

Lastly the directional LED’s ensure 100% of the light is pointed downwards – they do not rely upon reflective materials to direct the light.

It covers an area of 9 square feet, which is not much, but then for people with small cabinet grows or small closet grows that is more than enough.

It has an 80,000 hour life expectancy and comes with a 3 year warranty, one year of complete coverage and two years prorated coverage.

What other form of grow lighting gives you that?

But it costs between $499.00 to $599.00 depending on who you purchase from. That puts it out of reach budget-wise for most pot growers.

You can purchase a panel of LED grow lights that uses 300 watts and out performs a 1000 watt HID light and does it using 80% less energy and puts off an extremely small amount of heat and puts out 100% PAR light which HID lighting and CFL lighting is totally incapable of doing.

But is will cost you $1,795.00 (plus shipping and handling if you purchase it online).

How many pot growers have room in their budgets for a light setup like that? Not many. If you do not believe me start keeping track of the number of threads and messages here that use words like cheap and low cost and low priced and inexpensive being a requirement for the lighting the person who started the thread or wrote the messages said was what they had to stick to because of budgetary constraints.

LED grow lighting is absolutely unbeatable IF you can afford to purchase high quality LED’s and IF you purchase them in large enough numbers and or sizes for your needs and IF you know how to use them.

If not you will be dissatisfied and blame it on LED lighting even though the real problem was the purchasing of low quality LED’s, not purchasing enough LED’s and not knowing how to use them properly.

The blame for failure will wrongly be placed on them being LED’s instead of on the purchaser where it rightly would belong.
 
James Bond

James Bond

Well-Known Member
Brick Top said:
LED lighting is anything but inferior to other types of grow lights and is in fact far superior.

Where the problems are found is that all LED’s are expensive and the high quality ones are very expensive.

Because of that most pot growers, who normally do not have large budgets, purchase low quality LED’s and in low numbers.

They do not purchase high quality LED’s and they do not purchase enough LED’s. Also most pot growers have little to no idea of how to use them in the best way.

What that all adds up to is people purchased garbage and purchased to few and used them incorrectly and were unhappy with the results they got from them and blamed the lighting instead of their poor choice of what to buy, not buying enough of them and not knowing how to use them properly.

Then they say they are inferior and that they are unproven.

NASA has had fantastic success growing both on earth and in space using nothing but LED lighting. LED’s have been proven to be far superior to any other form of grow lighting.

No other form of grow lighting puts out 100% PAR light. No other form of grow lighting puts of as little heat. No other form of grow lighting uses so little energy. No other form of grow lighting has a life expectancy that comes close to that of high quality LED’s. Some high quality LED’s can last 11 years under continual use without any degradation of their 100% PAR light.

One smaller LED light that only uses 80 watts of power exceeds the amount of light put off by a 400 watt HID grow light and it is 100% PAR light.

It uses highly efficient 1 watt LED’s, uses only the exact spectrums required for photosynthesis, and uses wide angle directional bulbs. The 1 watt LED is one of the most efficient light sources in the world (lumens per watt).

By using only the spectrum required, no light is wasted in the spectrums of light that do little or nothing for a plants growth – such as green light.

Lastly the directional LED’s ensure 100% of the light is pointed downwards – they do not rely upon reflective materials to direct the light.

It covers an area of 9 square feet, which is not much, but then for people with small cabinet grows or small closet grows that is more than enough.

It has an 80,000 hour life expectancy and comes with a 3 year warranty, one year of complete coverage and two years prorated coverage.

What other form of grow lighting gives you that?

But it costs between $499.00 to $599.00 depending on who you purchase from. That puts it out of reach budget-wise for most pot growers.

You can purchase a panel of LED grow lights that uses 300 watts and out performs a 1000 watt HID light and does it using 80% less energy and puts off an extremely small amount of heat and puts out 100% PAR light which HID lighting and CFL lighting is totally incapable of doing.

But is will cost you $1,795.00 (plus shipping and handling if you purchase it online).

How many pot growers have room in their budgets for a light setup like that? Not many. If you do not believe me start keeping track of the number of threads and messages here that use words like cheap and low cost and low priced and inexpensive being a requirement for the lighting the person who started the thread or wrote the messages said was what they had to stick to because of budgetary constraints.

LED grow lighting is absolutely unbeatable IF you can afford to purchase high quality LED’s and IF you purchase them in large enough numbers and or sizes for your needs and IF you know how to use them.

If not you will be dissatisfied and blame it on LED lighting even though the real problem was the purchasing of low quality LED’s, not purchasing enough LED’s and not knowing how to use them properly.

The blame for failure will wrongly be placed on them being LED’s instead of on the purchaser where it rightly would belong.
Click to expand...
The expense is incredibly extreme, you say so yourself. That is one strike against it already. I don't understand why just because NASA uses it it is wonderful. NASA uses them because they use less energy, don't create much heat, and take up little room. NASA shouldn't even be used as an arguing point because we are not growing pot on the international space station. Also NASA is not growing pot on the international space station so we have absolutely no proof that there LEDs will grow "HIGH QUALITY" pot. Until I see an experiment/study/test whatever you want to call it from a reputable source showing that LED lights grow a high yeild and quality marijuana plant I will stay with my current opinion.
 
sittinherebored

sittinherebored

Well-Known Member
nasa only uses them because there is almost no heat and they use very little power.leds work if you have the budget of a cheap car and you have them above, around, and inbetween the plants. i could grow a beast plant if i place cfl's all around the plant too. leds are like big rims, they look cool, are really expensive and do worse(gas milage, ride quailty) than the normal ones(hps, mh). i would never try to grow with thousands of lil keychain lights...... and the pics justthefacts posted saying that there was improvement, the plants would be much thicker and healthier if there was an hps above them, they are lanky.
 
G

Ganja Alchemy

Active Member
No Mr Bond I'm not into LED sales. Actually I'm an old school head who's probably been smoking pot more years than you are old. I remember 10-15 years ago when the big debate among indoor growers was Halide vs. HPS. For years growers wouldn't think of using HPS bulbs over Halides even for flowering. Now try to find an accomplished grower who dosen't flower with an HPS. I was recently laid off from a white collar job and haven't grown for years and am getting back into it. Bond the last time I grew herb the internet wasn't even up and running! So Bond since researching LED's and state of the art grow rooms, I've found that you are wrong about the High Tech LED's...They do work! Having the web to do research is a great tool and I've been waiting to see if someone on any of these forums has purchased any of these High tech LED's. So finally we are now beginning to see some real results...even 6 months ago when I started this research I wasn't considering an LED product...now my mind has changed. The inital start up cost is expensive and I believe the lights will pay for themselves in the long run...lower operating costs, no bulb replacement, no heat signature, no expensive ventilation. And with one good harvest the LED's i am considering purchasing, probably the LumiGrow, one good harvest will pay for the lights.

If the lights don't work shame on me for not listening to you and if they do...you lose! So the debate rages on LED's vs HID's???

I'm not into sales...I'm just a futurist.

And to the guy who bought the UFO... Return it and do some research on Real LED Products.

And the debate rages on...LED's or HID's
 
sittinherebored

sittinherebored

Well-Known Member
i also forgot to mention the person who said you could get an led that out performs a 1000watt hid. wtf are you thinking? for that 1795 price tag i could buy almost ten 1000watt hid systems. so which plants would be better? your couple of lanky plants? or the multiple rooms full of thick lush plants i could grow with that amount of money. for anyone who fell for this lil fad give urself a big :dunce:
 
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