Latest soil test for recycling/re-amending - looking for some thoughts on input choices

So after the last run I got my soil test back to check what I was needing this next time. Prior run was excellent in a SIP hitting my best quality and yield yet (though I got a few stress seeds from an otherwise stable strain). Prior to that run I had a bad run as I went into it with a known low N level. I thought 'they say you don't need much N for flowering' and I wasn't going to veg long after transplanting into that soil and it definitely impacted my yield. This last time I had compensated and bumped the N up a good bit with that lesson learned.

This time I'm finding they sure do suck the N right out of things - I'm extremely low so this time I'll give it the same as last but maybe a tiny bit more. I believe it's pretty typical to need a full refresh of your N inputs each run (no point in aiming for stockpiling in the soil). What was really surprising was my S level is through the roof. I had been very liberal with the PhotoSyntesis+ and it uses S as the food source so I thought perhaps it came from that. I had also used the Big6 for micros and when I mentioned this S level elsewhere someone mentioned it might be from the solubility of the Big6 but I'm not sure that's the case or not. Based on this test it looks like I could use a dash of the Big6/Azomite again so I hope it's not the big contributor. I do look to avoid raising my aluminum levels so the Azomite may get skipped.

I also used some NFTG throughout this run, with their heavy inclusion of the Herculean Harvest I'm not shocked to see my P levels are still good/elevated but my K definitely needs brought in alignment - not sure on preferred ratio's so will be doing some homework still. I have SRP somewhere on hand.

It does look like I need to avoid some specific inputs though, I don't want my salts up or the P up any further, I know for my N inputs I plan to add Crab Meal, Neem/Karanja and I have Alfalfa all on hand (some blood meal but moving away from using it when what I have is gone). I've got a bunch of (old) kelp still needing used up but I'm leary of the salt input from it so looking for something else. I have greensand as well as other odds & ends I've accumulated over the years (small scale, shit goes a looooong way).



For the other soil geeks, what would you be thinking to re-amend with given that history and the current test? I've got some Bu's compost as well for this time and some castings so I'll be looking to include those. While I plan things I dumped the soil into totes, threw in some oldish malted barley from before the run, dumped the last of some grokashi in there and covered - so it's sitting with a nice white fuzzy beard as I sort things out.

WWYD?

The 1st step of the deed is done, I decided to go with each tote being around 10-12 gallons and plan to mix new aeration/maybe some fresh NFTG #4 when all said and done.

While the soil is 'cooking' and I'm not ready to run I wanted to get things breaking down so I went ahead with 1 full cup each of Feather/Alafalfa meal and 1/2 cup each of Neem/Karanja. That should get the N up there somewhat, hopefully not too much. First time trying Neem with Karanja which I hear work better together.

For the K bump I went with 1 full cup of the kelp I've got here - will take me forever to use that 1st bulk bag I bought years ago. Hopefully the salt doesn't jump from it too bad.

To get Ca/Mg and another N source I did a full cup of crab meal and then for the Ca another full cup of OSF. I'm avoiding any gypsum due to the sulfur it contributes and I'm getting a big of Mg from the other inputs and I can always add epsom salt/foilar/etc.

For now I've held off on any micros, I'll probably do a water-in of those (unless someone thinks I should add while cooking??) when I do a final inoculation at transplant time with my mykos & bennies after any 'cooking' so I don't waste them.

And to get 'er going I've put 2 full cups each of castings & Bu's compost. This was all thrown on top of the mat that had built up from the past week plus of letting it get nice & fuzzy. It was well matted and needing watered actually as it was drying up a bit. Give this a stir and throw the trashbags back on top and let her sit.

I'll probably do another soil test before using it for reference point later, I think it's worth the cost to have the insight to what's going on and this time I may get both types of test to check what's really in there vs available. Hopefully didn't fuck up relying on just the availability based test.

NewGrower2011 said:

For the K bump I went with 1 full cup of the kelp I've got here - will take me forever to use that 1st bulk bag I bought years ago. Hopefully the salt doesn't jump from it too bad.

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Sulfur really doesn't affect anything but the Ph, it lowers it. However, high Na levels will give you what looks like drought damage. Your plants will look like they are thirsty, but the soil could be soaking wet. To get rid of excessive Na, you just flush it with a LOT of water. Maybe, you should use a waterhose? Ca will help the Na leach out too. When you flush, you should expect your N, K, and Na levels to drop. You just re-amended, so it might not be the best thing to flush right now unless you have a lawn that you don't mind feeding. Your P is high, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem unless your micronutrient drop, but they look fine. I wouldn't even add Big-6 for a while and that is where your sulfur is coming from. Every ingredient in Big-6 is a sulfate of some kind like Mn sulfate, copper sulfate, Zn sulfate, and if it had iron it would be iron sulfate too.

NewGrower2011 said:

Hopefully didn't fuck up relying on just the availability based test.

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I just had the Mehlich 3 and saturated paste test done on my yard and I wish that I had just got the Soil Savvy test. Soil Savvy tells you what the problem is and I think that is more than adequate. It's better than looking at a Mehlich 3 test that shows that everything is in the normal range when it's not.

NewGrower2011 said:

This time I'm finding they sure do suck the N right out of things - I'm extremely low so this time I'll give it the same as last but maybe a tiny bit more.

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N is the most mobile of all the nutrients, so it will be used up the fastest and leached out the fastest. The problem with N is having it in excess. Excessive N(and P) will cause your roots to not produce root exudes and that will hinder your myco growth. You want to have N and P but in excess. This is why I was impressed with Malibu compost, it has low P. The thing about having too much N in flower is that it will lower your brix levels. During flower, you don't want your plant to stretch from excessive N because it will encourage insect infestations and lower the amount of carbohydrates in the plant. When using these soil tests, the amount of K needs to be 2x the amount recommended and I can leave the link to the podcast where they talk about it. This is the creator of the soil savvy test:

NewGrower2011 said:

I have greensand as well as other odds & ends I've accumulated over the years (small scale, shit goes a looooong way).

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I'm pretty big on greensand now, it's the only rock dust that has a decent amount of Mn. Plus, it has iron and K that is always helpful. It's hard to find a K input that is not kelp and doesn't have Na.

MustangStudFarm said:

I'm pretty big on greensand now, it's the only rock dust that has a decent amount of Mn. Plus, it has iron and K that is always helpful. It's hard to find a K input that is not kelp and doesn't have Na.

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I like using triple shifted hardwood ash 0-1-3, and Colloidal Soft Rock Phosphate 0-3-0, instead of kelp meal, fish bone meal in my mix, as those two things take care of all the -P-K, plus calcium and 30+ other trace minerals that my plants seem to like very much!

So on the Big6 being sulfate based, didn't think about that angle so now the trick question becomes if I want some select items bumped up without a sulphate form what options would I have for those micro inputs. Guess its time for more homework!

Even with just 1 day of being mixed, the trashbags are very heavy with condenstation and the room has this really strong funk going on - turned my fan/filter back on just to cut down the stank. That crab meal must be potent when breaking down - I'm guessing it's the big contributor to the smell.

piratebug said:

Colloidal Soft Rock Phosphate 0-3-0,

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I'm not trying to be down on you or anything, but I think that rock phosphate is not worth it. There seem to be so many inputs that raise P levels that it is more of a chore to NOT raise P than anything. The reason that Clackamas cuts out P inputs is that it will prevent your roots from producing root exudes. My problem is that it keeps locking out micronutrients. I'm not trying to be a dick or a know it all, just giving info that I wish that someone would have given me back in 2016.
The other problem with excessive P is that it will lock out your Mn, Zn, and Fe. It will look like a yellow fade and it's easy to mistake it for a N def. They call micronutrient lock out "iron chlorosis" specifically when dealing with excessive P.

NewGrower2011 said:

So on the Big6 being sulfate based, didn't think about that angle so now the trick question becomes if I want some select items bumped up without a sulphate form what options would I have for those micro inputs. Guess its time for more homework!

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According to Dr. Steve Solomon, you won't be able to find a good source of Mn or Zn from rock dust and kelp alone. He said that you basically have to use Mn sulfate. It sounds like there is not really a way around this one. However, I have been using greensand but it is supposed to take it 12mo to break down. The part that a lot of people leave out is that it is about 11% soluble, which means that 11% will break down instantly with water. Really though, I don't see S as being your problem because your Ph looks fine. You could probably get rid of a majority of your Na and S by flushing, but you would also lose any N and half of your K that you added. Wasn't your Ph around 6.4 or so?

NewGrower2011 said:

That crab meal must be potent when breaking down - I'm guessing it's the big contributor to the smell.

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Are you using barley seed? It has Chitinase the enzyme that breaks down chitin. Clackamas said that he figured it out while he was at an artisan bakery school.

Yes, I had previously ordered some unmilled malted barley so this was the leftovers from that batch. Aged a bit but figured it wouldn't hurt to toss in while I was letting things cook.

Last round of amendments went in, a little greensand some azomite since I'm not doing the Big6 due to sulfate levels and some fresh perlite since I did add casting/bu's in earlier. Watered with some SLF-100, Photo+ and even a dash of Mammoth with a dab of molasses and some fish hydrolysate to make the fungi and bennies as happy as I can while things sit. Gave it all a good in-place mix as best I could in the totes and they'll get a final mix when they go back into the SIPs themselves with fresh mykos/azos and the new occupants.

I figure I'll let things sit one more week before considering putting anything in. The plants bound for these have been sitting waiting forever and are beyond mature themselves (i.e. their 1/2 gals had to be root pruned and re-amended as they were yellowing a few weeks ago).

Last mod I'm looking at for my next run in SIPs is a little wheeled dolly under each, a scrog which I've made the 1st prototype of already and have my dimensions for and then what I'll use for a 'shower cap' to keep the top moist this time. I'm also going to go with a longer veg for the scrog and a single plant per container this time. Hoping going single plant per SIP doesn't wreck my yield -- as last one was my best so far but I do aim to keep plant counts down while maximizing output of my little 4x4 space. I find these SIPs are very promising and low maintenance. Basically a setut/reset/repeat next run deal and works exceptionally well with organics it seems so far from my little adventure.

NewGrower2011 said:

Last round of amendments went in, a little greensand some azomite since I'm not doing the Big6 due to sulfate levels and some fresh perlite since I did add casting/bu's in earlier. Watered with some SLF-100, Photo+ and even a dash of Mammoth with a dab of molasses and some fish hydrolysate to make the fungi and bennies as happy as I can while things sit. Gave it all a good in-place mix as best I could in the totes and they'll get a final mix when they go back into the SIPs themselves with fresh mykos/azos and the new occupants.

I figure I'll let things sit one more week before considering putting anything in. The plants bound for these have been sitting waiting forever and are beyond mature themselves (i.e. their 1/2 gals had to be root pruned and re-amended as they were yellowing a few weeks ago).

Last mod I'm looking at for my next run in SIPs is a little wheeled dolly under each, a scrog which I've made the 1st prototype of already and have my dimensions for and then what I'll use for a 'shower cap' to keep the top moist this time. I'm also going to go with a longer veg for the scrog and a single plant per container this time. Hoping going single plant per SIP doesn't wreck my yield -- as last one was my best so far but I do aim to keep plant counts down while maximizing output of my little 4x4 space. I find these SIPs are very promising and low maintenance. Basically a setut/reset/repeat next run deal and works exceptionally well with organics it seems so far from my little adventure.

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Good to know about the sulfur in the big 6, didn’t think about that either

Yeah once you look at the raw materials everything is a sulfate. I kept eyeballing the photo+ but once another member pointed out the sulphate angle it all makes sense. I've got a new soil test kit on its way so once its here I'll probably go ahead and submit it - things have sat for a good little bit now so I'll be mixing/stirring and then getting some random samples to draw from. Wish there was reasonable priced equipment to do your own true soil testing at home... I hate waiting on results!

NewGrower2011 said:

Yeah once you look at the raw materials everything is a sulfate. I kept eyeballing the photo+ but once another member pointed out the sulphate angle it all makes sense. I've got a new soil test kit on its way so once its here I'll probably go ahead and submit it - things have sat for a good little bit now so I'll be mixing/stirring and then getting some random samples to draw from. Wish there was reasonable priced equipment to do your own true soil testing at home... I hate waiting on results!

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Hey, I did my a couple of soil runs with Big 6 and I started to notice that the Na levels were rising. Then, I looked up the label for TM-7, because Big-6 don't have one yet, and they use sodium molybdenite. So, sodium levels are fucking me now. The only thing that I know to do is to add Big-6 and then leach the soil with water. I'm in the process of doing this myself. I mixed my soil, watered in Big6, leached with water, and add alfalfa meal back in. It's a fucking process, but I can replicate it if it happens to work out. I really don't know of any other way to raise Mn levels... Didn't I say that I've been working on this Mn problem for about 3yrs now?

Yup, hard to find amendments that don't have undesirables in tow. My salt levels are elevated as well so it sounds like Big6 is awesome on paper but in practice leaves something to be desired. I'm sure it's the best options given the folks behind it - this time I only used some Azomite and then the other N inputs like alfalfa, karanja, neem and feather meal. My chitin from crab shell meal and then later some insect frass for the SAR deal. Some coco water sitting in fridge (expired for human consumption but who cares for this type of use - right?)

I've got some left-overs in the tub from mixing/resetting my SIP(s) that should be good representation of the amended mix after a couple weeks of sitting and cooking and a SLF100 bath during. Got my test kit yesterday so will be submitting it in the next few to see where things landed.

NewGrower2011 said:

Yup, hard to find amendments that don't have undesirables in tow. My salt levels are elevated as well so it sounds like Big6 is awesome on paper but in practice leaves something to be desired.

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My wife is going to school for horticulture and she gives me insight sometimes, she has only been going for about a year now, but she said that if Big 6 was used outside that the rain would have washed the Na away. So, leeching indoor soil might be something that I have overlooked. I'm trying to plant some seeds right now and I was getting sporadic results because seeds don't like salt. Anyways, I'm not going to be using kelp anytime soon lol. Also, I leeched the soil from my previous test and I sent it to get tested again, results should be in today...

Yeah I'm letting some EM activate right now and plan to top off the SIP rezs by the occasional top feed/water and let it run through - sure the salt would be down in the rez and hopefully diluted while any other good things leached out may remain in the rez at least and get drawn back up slowly... In theory at least.

So far my transplants don't seem to be freaking out or anything and are taking hold/starting to root. Another week or so and I'll probably flip since I put 3 small plants in each SIP. 2 totes have 'mature' clones that sat for far too long in 1gal plastic pots with 3 per tote. Then I had my cloner with several who again had been in far too long and were getting large/thick stemmed and massive roots so those were plopped in 3 per tote so I can compare the benefit of well established root balls vs straight from cloner.

The plants from the cloner wilted like crazy going into the soil while the others weren't phased at all which is to be expected and the cloner had 'water roots' if I follow the thinking and had to adapt to moving into a soil environment. Couple days of misting them every now & then and they started recovering finally - good thing I was home/on vacation days to tend to them otherwise I think they would have wilted/died potentially. .

NewGrower2011 said:

Yeah I'm letting some EM activate right now and plan to top off the SIP rezs by the occasional top feed/water and let it run through - sure the salt would be down in the rez and hopefully diluted while any other good things leached out may remain in the rez at least and get drawn back up slowly... In theory at least.

So far my transplants don't seem to be freaking out or anything and are taking hold/starting to root. Another week or so and I'll probably flip since I put 3 small plants in each SIP. 2 totes have 'mature' clones that sat for far too long in 1gal plastic pots with 3 per tote. Then I had my cloner with several who again had been in far too long and were getting large/thick stemmed and massive roots so those were plopped in 3 per tote so I can compare the benefit of well established root balls vs straight from cloner.

The plants from the cloner wilted like crazy going into the soil while the others weren't phased at all which is to be expected and the cloner had 'water roots' if I follow the thinking and had to adapt to moving into a soil environment. Couple days of misting them every now & then and they started recovering finally - good thing I was home/on vacation days to tend to them otherwise I think they would have wilted/died potentially. .

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I'm dealing with germination issues with my salty soil... I cut all of my plants down to get rid of spider mites, so I'm starting all over from seed. I'm impatiently waiting for my soil test, it should def be ready today.