Leaf deficiency. Need help to identify.

Jetlifeuk · Mar 5, 2019

Hey everyone,

Just after some opinions as to what might be causing this leaf issue.

Growing in soil. pH runoff varies from 6.7 to 7.1.

Had it the previous time around with some Afgan Kush. It was suggested I added some dolomite lime at 1 tbsp per gallon so said i would try it on the next attempt. This was to stabilise my pH and supply more Ca and Mg, as it used to run on the acidic side, lower than 6.

I chose to grow some Northern Lights this time around, added dolomite lime during potting up as recommended. However, week 6 of flowering it rapidly taking over within a couple of days!

Let me know if any of you require any more info.

Thanks in advance.

Aussieaceae · Mar 5, 2019

Hi Jetlifeuk,

Being on the tops, and considering how fast it's progressing, i'd guess it's a lockout, rather than deficiency.

Wouldn't worry about your waste readings if in soil.
You are growing in soil?

Been supplementing any nutrients?
If so, how much, and how often?

Fandangle · Mar 5, 2019

I'd say it's a calcium deficiency, either that or manganese but I'd go with calcium.

I'm a hydro grower so I'd just add some calmag to the res. Hopefully someone else can tell you the best thing to do with your setup.

Jetlifeuk · Mar 5, 2019

Aussieaceae said:
Hi Jetlifeuk,

Being on the tops, and considering how fast it's progressing, i'd guess it's a lockout, rather than deficiency.

Wouldn't worry about your waste readings if in soil.
You are growing in soil?

Been supplementing any nutrients?
If so, how much, and how often?

Yes I am going in soil.

I've been supplementing with Canna Terra - Flores. 1/2 recommend strength, Every other watering. From week 5 I added an additional PK13/14 at 1/2 strength on top of base nutrients. The issue arose shortly after, to which I then added more PK13/14 thinking it was a K deficiency the feeding after.

All 4 plants are showing the same issue, have also now been flushed with 3 times pot volume 2 days ago.

Thank you for the quick reply.

Jetlifeuk · Mar 5, 2019

Blitz35 said:
No mention of what you are growing in (soil is very general, and most people call anything that is dirt...soil), no mention of feedings/watering habits..temps/humidity (which by the way, you show issues with), lights used...so it's a complete guessing game...from the symptoms you are showing, it appears to be a magnesium issue. Do you have a pic of the plant from 1-2 weeks ago?

I'm more than happy to provide these details.

Specifically, the soil is Canna Terra - Seed Mix with 25% perlite added.

Watering and feedings have been posted as you have already seen.

Temps are 26C, humidity is around 35%.
The edges curling (looks like heat stress) conicided with the leaf markings, also got twisted growth after strong feeding.

Not adding any Mg as it's contained in the flowering nutrients. Base tap water is soft at 0.2E.

Hope this answers your question.

Aussieaceae · Mar 5, 2019

Jetlifeuk said:
Yes I am going in soil.

I've been supplementing with Canna Terra - Flores. 1/2 recommend strength, Every other watering. From week 5 I added an additional PK13/14 at 1/2 strength on top of base nutrients. The issue arose shortly after, to which I then added more PK13/14 thinking it was a K deficiency the feeding after.

All 4 plants are showing the same issue, have also now been flushed with 3 times pot volume 2 days ago.

Thank you for the quick reply.

Yeah i'd say you've locked out.

My initial thoughts was something potassium related. Gotta be wary with potassium, because it can lock itself, and other nutrients out as well.

If it were deficient, you'd likely see symptoms on your lower leaves.

I think sticking to plain water for a little while will help things.

1/2 strength aqua flores + 1/2 strength pk 13/14, every other watering, your ppms have to be up there.

Plain water. Ride it out, and see how it goes. That's what i'd do myself anyway.

Jetlifeuk · Mar 5, 2019

Aussieaceae said:
Yeah i'd say you've locked out.

My initial thoughts was something potassium related. Gotta be wary with potassium, because it can lock itself, and other nutrients out as well.

If it were deficient, you'd likely see symptoms on your lower leaves.

I think sticking to plain water for a little while will help things.

1/2 strength aqua flores + 1/2 strength pk 13/14, every other watering, your ppms have to be up there.

Plain water. Ride it out, and see how it goes. That's what i'd do myself anyway.

Thank you for your advise and opinion.

When do you think would be best to reintroduce nutrients again at 1/2 strength?

They were flushed with 3 times to pot volume on Sunday. Due to water tomorrow evening.

Aussieaceae · Mar 5, 2019

Jetlifeuk said:
Thank you for your advise and opinion.

When do you think would be best to reintroduce nutrients again at 1/2 strength?

They were flushed with 3 times to pot volume on Sunday. Due to water tomorrow evening.

I'd stick to water myself, until i started seeing some improvement.

Good luck.

Jetlifeuk · Mar 5, 2019

Aussieaceae said:
I'd stick to water myself, until i started seeing some improvement.

Good luck.

Will do. I also think it's most likely the excess P and K causing lockout. Always good to get someone elses opinion on the matter.

Thank you for your help. I'll update in a couple of weeks on final outcome. And try not to over do it next time around, after summer has passed.

Kind regards

Aussieaceae · Mar 5, 2019

No worries,

I really don't like referring to cannabis related grow information, but maximum yield have a great chart on the basic antagonists.
Mulder's chart's always been far too complex for me.

Here's a link-

https://www.maximumyield.com/how-nutrient-antagonism-leads-to-nutrient-deficiency-in-plants/2/2092

3rd Monkey · Mar 5, 2019

Jetlifeuk said:
Hey everyone,

Just after some opinions as to what might be causing this leaf issue.

Growing in soil. pH runoff varies from 6.7 to 7.1.

Had it the previous time around with some Afgan Kush. It was suggested I added some dolomite lime at 1 tbsp per gallon so said i would try it on the next attempt. This was to stabilise my pH and supply more Ca and Mg, as it used to run on the acidic side, lower than 6.

I chose to grow some Northern Lights this time around, added dolomite lime during potting up as recommended. However, week 6 of flowering it rapidly taking over within a couple of days!

Let me know if any of you require any more info.

Thanks in advance.

They are praying real hard... How far is the light and what kind? Also, is that canopy temp or just tent temp.

Definitely a heat/light issue. Not saying you don't have a def, but that is certainly not helping.

Aussieaceae · Mar 5, 2019

3rd Monkey said:
They are praying real hard... How far is the light and what kind? Also, is that canopy temp or just tent temp.

Definitely a heat/light issue. Not saying you don't have a def, but that is certainly not helping.

This is a good point too...

hawse · Mar 5, 2019

Does this strain normally get purple leaves? Just curious, those flowers seem to have a lot of purple too. Just in case this changes your perspective at all, IDK - it looks a lot like a strain I have that turns purple, but more towards the end of the flowering cycle the leaves will do that... It could be too much heat too maybe.

Jetlifeuk · Mar 5, 2019

3rd Monkey said:
They are praying real hard... How far is the light and what kind? Also, is that canopy temp or just tent temp.

Definitely a heat/light issue. Not saying you don't have a def, but that is certainly not helping.

Light is a 250w HPS. It's about 30cm away from the canopy.

Canopy temperature most probably higher than my recorded temp as it not directly below the centre of the bulb on the canopy, it's the same height but at the back of the tent.

It's maxed out now in terms of height. I usually top my plants due to limited height, I didn't this time around. Slightly regretting that decision now. Didn't think the Northern Lights would stretch as much as it did. Learnt for next time anyway.

We just had an unusually warm week or 2 in the UK for winter, breaking temperatures for this time of the year. Didn't help either...

Blitz35 · Mar 5, 2019

Aussieaceae said:
No worries,

I really don't like referring to cannabis related grow information, but maximum yield have a great chart on the basic antagonists.
Mulder's chart's always been far too complex for me.

Here's a link-

https://www.maximumyield.com/how-nutrient-antagonism-leads-to-nutrient-deficiency-in-plants/2/2092

I'd say that chart is a bit basic and doesn't really include all combinations. Also does not mention ph, which is what's responsible for the precipitates...iron bonding to phosphorus, or calcium bonding to phosphorus etc. If you want something that can really help you understand the concept of plant growth and how they feed..try this http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_Exchange_Simplified.htm
http://www.soilquality.org.au/factsheets/cation-exchange-capacity

That's half of the story, the rest is your environment..temps/humidity, air movement..as that has to be in check as well to ensure proper transpiration. If the plant drinks too quickly or too slowly, it can induce deficiencies, so having the right temps/humidity is equally important as to understanding what's in your medium, and how the plant interacts with it

Best of luck in your grows!

Jetlifeuk · Mar 5, 2019

hawse said:
Does this strain normally get purple leaves? Just curious, those flowers seem to have a lot of purple too. Just in case this changes your perspective at all, IDK - it looks a lot like a strain I have that turns purple, but more towards the end of the flowering cycle the leaves will do that... It could be too much heat too maybe.

Its Northern Lights (NL5xNL2) from Seedstockers.

It's the first attempt growing this strain, so I'm not sure if this has a tendency to turn purple. I'll be trying again in a couple of month times.

Thank you for your input.

3rd Monkey · Mar 5, 2019

Jetlifeuk said:
Light is a 250w HPS. It's about 30cm away from the canopy.

Canopy temperature most probably higher than my recorded temp as it not directly below the centre of the bulb on the canopy, it's the same height but at the back of the tent.

It's maxed out now in terms of height. I usually top my plants due to limited height, I didn't this time around. Slightly regretting that decision now. Didn't think the Northern Lights would stretch as much as it did. Learnt for next time anyway.

We just had an unusually warm week or 2 in the UK for winter, breaking temperatures for this time of the year. Didn't help either...

That's not a bad height, but it's either too close or too warm in there.

Aussieaceae · Mar 5, 2019

Blitz35 said:
I'd say that chart is a bit basic and doesn't really include all combinations. Also does not mention ph, which is what's responsible for the precipitates...iron bonding to phosphorus, or calcium bonding to phosphorus etc. If you want something that can really help you understand the concept of plant growth and how they feed..try this http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_Exchange_Simplified.htm
http://www.soilquality.org.au/factsheets/cation-exchange-capacity

That's half of the story, the rest is your environment..temps/humidity, air movement..as that has to be in check as well to ensure proper transpiration. If the plant drinks too quickly or too slowly, it can induce deficiencies, so having the right temps/humidity is equally important as to understanding what's in your medium, and how the plant interacts with it
Best of luck in your grows!

I can agree with you, that it is basic. Though i don't believe ph is an issue. Given the amount of fertilizer used, i find a nutrient lockout to be likely.

Generally a soil grower myself, and that seems like a lot of nutrient to me.

I'm quite familiar with Cation Exchange Capacity. Just don't believe it to be the issue, given the data. Also from soil, to soil CEC is going to vary.

Thanks for the info.

Blitz35 · Mar 5, 2019

Aussieaceae said:
I can agree with you, that it is basic. Though i don't believe ph is an issue. Given the amount of fertilizer used, i find a nutrient lockout to be likely.

Generally a soil grower myself, and that seems like a lot of nutrient to me.

I'm quite familiar with Cation Exchange Capacity. Just don't believe it to be the issue, given the data. Also from soil, to soil CEC is going to vary.

Thanks for the info.

The links were more for the op

Also, cec is not 'something you believe in'..it's the science of how plants feed!

Good luck!

Aussieaceae · Mar 5, 2019

Blitz35 said:
The links were more for the op Also, cec is not 'something you believe in'..it's the science of how plants feed! Good luck!

Well i was quoted, so excuse me for answering.

Fact is, depending on amendments and ingredients in the soil, CEC is going to vary.

There is such a thing as Anion Exchange Capacity as well.

Soil leaches, it absorbs, and it breaks down.

Tbf we can't accurately tell the CEC of a soil without a lab analysis. There's just too many variables.

Best of luck to you too.
I'm sure the info you provided will help the OP.

Cheers.

Leaf deficiency. Need help to identify.

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