LED and driver setup, will it work?

Templeman420

Templeman420

Member
Hey guys ive been lurking for some time, and finally registered having my first post.

I have a few questions if my setup will work, and your opinions are appreciated.

5 of these
SI-B8UZ91B20WW F-Series Gen3 3500K Linear Light Strip
Current - Test 2.24A
Temperature - Test 65°C
Voltage - Forward (Vf) (Typ) 46V
Current - Max 3.6A
CRI 80
108.4 watt max
1120.00mm L x 39.80mm W

SI-B8UZ91B20WW Samsung Semiconductor, Inc. | Optoelectronics | DigiKey

Order today, ships today. SI-B8UZ91B20WW – LED Lighting COBs Engines Modules LED Module series White, Warm Linear Light Strip from Samsung Semiconductor, Inc.. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.
www.digikey.ca www.digikey.ca

And the driver is Constant Current Hlg-480H-C2100A
95% efficient
1050 - 2100 m/a
481 watt
Open circuit 280v
Voltage - Output 114 ~ 229V
Current - Output (Max) 2.1A

HLG-480H-C2100A MEAN WELL USA Inc. | Power Supplies - External/Internal (Off-Board) | DigiKey

Order today, ships today. HLG-480H-C2100A – 2.1A 114 ~ 229V Constant Current LED Driver AC DC Converter Topology 1 Output from MEAN WELL USA Inc.. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.
www.digikey.ca www.digikey.ca

This is a A series driver and my question is if this is going to be an issue?
Thank you for your time.
 
GrassBurner

GrassBurner

Well-Known Member
How big of an area are you covering? 480 watts sounds like a lot for 5 strips. The numbers appear to work, but you're gonna be running those strips full tilt boogie. I'd say add a few more strips, give you a little better light spread if nothing else.
 
Templeman420

Templeman420

Member
Thank you for the input guys.
My area is 4x6.

The biggest concern is damaging any of this expensive shit.
 
Last edited:
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
GrassBurner said:
How big of an area are you covering? 480 watts sounds like a lot for 5 strips. The numbers appear to work, but you're gonna be running those strips full tilt boogie. I'd say add a few more strips, give you a little better light spread if nothing else.
Click to expand...
the driver only puts out 2.1A tho so he will be running them lower than test (2.24 and max is 3.6) so should be ok in that way.

but the issue is 46V x 5 = 230V and the driver only outputs 229V so its going to be close. maybe will work since the current is slightly lower.. someone else can advise better here.
 
Templeman420

Templeman420

Member
Last edited:
JOO©E

JOO©E

Member
ilovereggae said:
the driver only puts out 2.1A tho so he will be running them lower than test (2.24 and max is 3.6) so should be ok in that way.

but the issue is 46V x 5 = 230V and the driver only outputs 229V so its going to be close. maybe will work since the current is slightly lower.. someone else can advise better here.
Click to expand...
The 46V forward voltage is in reference to a 2.2A current as opposed 2.1A. Also, the drivers have a little more V/I than rated for. The only ambiguity comes when maxing the driver out, but even still, should be good.

@Templeman420
Use 16awg wire if you can. Thin long wires will steal voltage from your strips. If using 16awg at 2.1A, then every 10ft of wire will only steal about 0.084V (so nothing to worry about).

You could go with a 480h 48A and wire in parallel, but the 2100A wired in series will work just as well.
 
JOO©E

JOO©E

Member
Templeman420 said:
Leds datasheet can handle 43.7v - 48.4v
The main reason for my question is the driver also suggests open circuit of 280v, not exactly sure if the power will reach the leds or not. If its 239v i should be ok?

Data Sheet for the Samsung LTFB24B strips

Data sheet for the HLG-480H-C2100A
Click to expand...
Bottom left shows 16S18P, and slightly above you can see the strips are populated with LM561C
Screenshot_2020-12-22-14-06-20-1.png
(It's similar to a QB288 except in a strip form factor, and using 288 LM561C instead of 288 LM301B)


Generic LM561C Vf vs I chart
Screenshot_2020-12-22-14-05-47-1.png


A datasheet Vf of 46V (but at 2.24A) multiplied by 5 strips yields a total voltage requirement of 230V, or 1V more than what the driver is rated for. The question then, is how will this possibly effect operation? We need to get a few bits of info first before it can be determined.


Strip datasheet per chip specs:
2.24A ÷ 18rows = 0.1244A; 124.4mA/chip
46V ÷ 16chips/row = 2.875V/chip

Intended per chip specs:
2.1A ÷ 18rows = 0.1166A; 116.6mA/chip

Compare generic chart w strip datasheet:
The generic LM561C Vf vs I chart shows only ~119mA flowed at 2.875V compared to the calculated 124.4mA. This means that the strips will actually require less voltage in real life to flow the desired amount of current compared to what the LM561C generic Vf vs I chart tells us.
USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_orca-image-1825103217.jpeg_1608675810898.jpeg

Convert intended I into generic I, to determine intended V:
At 116.6mA the generic LM561C Vf vs I chart will give us an exaggerated voltage correlation. So in order to use the generic LM561C Vf vs I chart to determine real life voltage per chip, we first need to subract ~5.5mA from our intended 116.6mA to offset and maintain the difference we've noticed (strips flow ~5.5mA more than chart V shows). When we look at the Vf vs I chart we can see ~111mA correlates to ~2.8625V.
USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_orca-image--1496431947.jpeg_1608676580201.jpeg

2.8625V × 16 = 45.8V

If we supply 45.8V per 5 strips, we require 229V which is exactly what the 480h 2100 is rated for. Ok great!

********************************************


What about if 1V shy?:
Lets dig deeper and see what 1V less in total circuit voltage does to our total current flow.

230V ÷ 5 = 46V/
229V ÷ 5 = 45.8V/

46V ÷ 16chips/row = 2.875V/chip
45.8V ÷ 16chips/row = 2.8625V/chip

When looking on the Vf vs I chart for the LM561C, you can see 2.875V looks to align with ~119mA.

When looking on the Vf vs I chart for the LM561C, you can see 2.8625V looks to align with ~110mA.
USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_orca-image-1093873554.jpeg_1608674931942.jpeg

There are several different LM561C chips and each model will have a slightly different Vf vs I chart, shifted right or left essentially, but it looks like a 0.2V difference across an entire 16chip string (46V vs 45.48V) will reduce current flow by ~9mA per string. There are 18 strings per strip, so at first glance, it looks like a possible reduction of ~165mA in current flowed per every 1V reduced from max, or ~7.75% reduction.

The Vf vs I chart has portions where it's more or less linear, and then portions that are non linear, so this scaling, 7.75%/1V will distort as the voltage drop increases, so it's just to get an idea. The slope of the chart should more or less be the same from model to model, although its position in relation to the axis changes. This above estimation is relying upon the slope remaining constant.

********************************************


All in all it looks like the driver will be sized perfectly. And for every 1V that the circuit requires over what the driver can supply to flow its rated 2.1A (or for every volt you dim), you'll notice a reduction in total current by an estimated ~165mA, or ~7.75%.

The numbers arent exact, and the plot points used could be visually misinterpreted and these things will effect the final estimation, but hopefully this gives a better picture.

If the strips require 46V to flow 2.1A, then you'll only be able to flow ~1.935A, but the datasheet shows 46V for 2.24A, not 2.1A, and when looking at the LM561C and comparing to the strip datasheet, it looks like your driver matches your load almost perfectly.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
JOO©E said:
Bottom left shows 16S18P, and slightly above you can see the strips are populated with LM561C
View attachment 4775330
(It's similar to a QB288 except in a strip form factor, and using 288 LM561C instead of 288 LM301B)


Generic LM561C Vf vs I chart
View attachment 4775332


A datasheet Vf of 46V (but at 2.24A) multiplied by 5 strips yields a total voltage requirement of 230V, or 1V more than what the driver is rated for. The question then, is how will this possibly effect operation? We need to get a few bits of info first before it can be determined.


Strip datasheet per chip specs:
2.24A ÷ 18rows = 0.1244A; 124.4mA/chip
46V ÷ 16chips/row = 2.875V/chip

Intended per chip specs:
2.1A ÷ 18rows = 0.1166A; 116.6mA/chip

Compare generic chart w strip datasheet:
The generic LM561C Vf vs I chart shows only ~119mA flowed at 2.875V compared to the calculated 124.4mA. This means that the strips will actually require less voltage in real life to flow the desired amount of current compared to what the LM561C generic Vf vs I chart tells us.
View attachment 4775470

Convert intended I into generic I, to determine intended V:
At 116.6mA the generic LM561C Vf vs I chart will give us an exaggerated voltage correlation. So in order to use the generic LM561C Vf vs I chart to determine real life voltage per chip, we first need to subract ~5.5mA from our intended 116.6mA to offset and maintain the difference we've noticed (strips flow ~5.5mA more than chart V shows). When we look at the Vf vs I chart we can see ~111mA correlates to ~2.8625V.
View attachment 4775469

2.8625V × 16 = 45.8V

If we supply 45.8V per 5 strips, we require 229V which is exactly what the 480h 2100 is rated for. Ok great!

********************************************


What about if 1V shy?:
Lets dig deeper and see what 1V less in total circuit voltage does to our total current flow.

230V ÷ 5 = 46V/
229V ÷ 5 = 45.8V/

46V ÷ 16chips/row = 2.875V/chip
45.8V ÷ 16chips/row = 2.8625V/chip

When looking on the Vf vs I chart for the LM561C, you can see 2.875V looks to align with ~119mA.

When looking on the Vf vs I chart for the LM561C, you can see 2.8625V looks to align with ~110mA.
View attachment 4775471

There are several different LM561C chips and each model will have a slightly different Vf vs I chart, shifted right or left essentially, but it looks like a 0.2V difference across an entire 16chip string (46V vs 45.48V) will reduce current flow by ~9mA per string. There are 18 strings per strip, so at first glance, it looks like a possible reduction of ~165mA in current flowed per every 1V reduced from max, or ~7.75% reduction.

The Vf vs I chart has portions where it's more or less linear, and then portions that are non linear, so this scaling, 7.75%/1V will distort as the voltage drop increases, so it's just to get an idea. The slope of the chart should more or less be the same from model to model, although its position in relation to the axis changes. This above estimation is relying upon the slope remaining constant.

********************************************


All in all it looks like the driver will be sized perfectly. And for every 1V that the circuit requires over what the driver can supply to flow its rated 2.1A (or for every volt you dim), you'll notice a reduction in total current by an estimated ~165mA, or ~7.75%.

The numbers arent exact, and the plot points used could be visually misinterpreted and these things will effect the final estimation, but hopefully this gives a better picture.

If the strips require 46V to flow 2.1A, then you'll only be able to flow ~1.935A, but the datasheet shows 46V for 2.24A, not 2.1A, and when looking at the LM561C and comparing to the strip datasheet, it looks like your driver matches your load almost perfectly.
Click to expand...
thank you for this very detailed explanation. I gotta admit, this is the most exact match of driver to strips ive ever seen. I wish I could get my builds this tight lol.
 
Templeman420

Templeman420

Member
Im using C channel aluminum 2" wide and 1/4" thick.
Have 5 channels 48" long on 1/2" aluminum solid rods.

All holes center punched and tapped to accept m3 screws just like on a computer chip.
Waiting on thermal paste before fastening down the strips.
They can all slide along the rods, but max alowed distance from one another is 16" over 6x4
 

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Templeman420

Templeman420

Member
Running very well. Was on for 12 hours maxxed out the whole time, temps on the back of U channel was 25.7° at the hottest spot i could find.

Driver temps are at 45° and now i need to relocate my driver elcewhere. It's location above my center channel is creating a hotspot of 45°compared to 25° on the rest of the light.

So i will relocate the driver and keep posted.
 

Attachments

JOO©E

JOO©E

Member
Templeman420 said:
Running very well. Was on for 12 hours maxxed out the whole time, temps on the back of U channel was 25.7° at the hottest spot i could find.

Driver temps are at 45° and now i need to relocate my driver elcewhere. It's location above my center channel is creating a hotspot of 45°compared to 25° on the rest of the light.

So i will relocate the driver and keep posted.
Click to expand...
Hell ya! Good work
 
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