LED Companies w/ LINKS

puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
Perro Negro, I have a question about the new universal series if you don't mind. How many watts are each of the 5w leds pushing out? My math estimates roughly 2.4w each (360u is 340w/140chips) but I would expect it to be more from a 5w chip, are some color chips powered more/less than others? Thanks!
 
Perro Negro

Perro Negro

Member
puffenuff said:
Perro Negro, I have a question about the new universal series if you don't mind. How many watts are each of the 5w leds pushing out? My math estimates roughly 2.4w each (360u is 340w/140chips) but I would expect it to be more from a 5w chip, are some color chips powered more/less than others? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hey puffenuff, good question since it is definitely not intuitive at this point. A lot of what we say is driven by the industry in terms of sticking with industry standard terms. The LEDs we use are listed by the manufacturer as 5w LEDs which simply means they can theoretically be run at 5w and still maintain respectable longevity. I say theoretically because to do this you would have to put outrageous cooling on each LED to maintain a proper temperature otherwise the LED would not last, meaning the spectrum and light output for each LED would degrade very quickly. If we put the kind of cooling necessary (think water cooling or heat pipes for you computer geeks) to cool them in that situation and the price would be out of all of our reach as growers.

So, our goal is to balance all of the factors with proper engineering and hard learned lessons. The factors include maintaining our spectrum, light output, lifetime of the LED, etc.

The other part of your question can get even more technical, but the short answer is yes, LEDs rated at the same wattage can be run at different wattage based on the color. This is directly related to heat as well like the above answer. A simple example for all of us growers would be a 5w blue LED vs. a 5w red LED. As you may know the more red you go towards far red or even infrared, the more heat you produce for the power you are putting into the LED. Where as with blue there us much less heat generated for the power being applied. So, as the companies that sell the actual LEDs will show in the spec sheets you can definitely run the exact same design LED at different levels of power and obtain the same longevity due to decreased heat output on the blues.

We understand this and while it costs us more in terms of manufacturing and A LOT more in terms of shipping, we completely redesigned the housing for our needs as a custom housing that can hold heat sinks as large as we want. These heat sinks are the largest in the industry. To put this into perspective, by cutting no corners on the Universal Series, our old Platinum XL weighed in at about 25 pounds, our new Platinum XL Universal Series weighs in at 47 pounds and the new BD-360 Universal Series (our smallest light) weighs in at 28 pounds. Hope your tent can handle it ;)

Let me know if you want more details or have any additional questions. Thanks again for the good question.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
lol^^^^^^you haven't answered puff's question...........what are your driving your "true" 5w leds at(not stacked I hope)???? you say your proud of your panel, so let's get some specs: led manufacturer(s) used/ bin #/ pcb used/ acrylic or glass primary led lens/driver manufacturer/etc..........

California light works drives their 5w led engin emitters a little over 4w on average due to the high quality mcpcb and MASSIVE heatsinks used >>http://www.californialightworks.com/About.htm ....Lumigrow stopped using all 5w leds in their panels with the pro series, and i'm not even gonna talk about Hydroponic hut's X5 (all 5w panel lol) cause it smells like bs just like Ben's other bs panels..........so let's get some REAL specs from you Perro

BTW welcome to RIU...........
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
and a next point...

A simple example for all of us growers would be a 5w blue LED vs. a 5w red LED. As you may know the more red you go towards far red or even infrared, the more heat you produce for the power you are putting into the LED. Where as with blue there us much less heat generated for the power being applied.
Click to expand...
exactly the opposite
 
Perro Negro

Perro Negro

Member
PSUAGRO. said:
lol^^^^^^you haven't answered puff's question...........what are your driving your "true" 5w leds at(not stacked I hope)???? you say your proud of your panel, so let's get some specs: led manufacturer(s) used/ bin #/ pcb used/ acrylic or glass primary led lens/driver manufacturer/etc..........

California light works drives their 5w led engin emitters a little over 4w on average due to the high quality mcpcb and MASSIVE heatsinks used >>http://www.californialightworks.com/About.htm ....Lumigrow stopped using all 5w leds in their panels with the pro series, and i'm not even gonna talk about Hydroponic hut's X5 (all 5w panel lol) cause it smells like bs just like Ben's other bs panels..........so let's get some REAL specs from you Perro

BTW welcome to RIU...........
Click to expand...
Thanks for the welcome. Before I go into the details of your query can you tell me if you have any affiliation with California Light Works? I have been honest about my working at Black Dog LED. My issue is that if you were just asking about our lights and had not brought any of our competition into the mix it would be more simple. If i explain why we are better than them it will be looked at as bashing them and they are not even here to defend themselves. I would not want the same done to Black Dog LED. If I don't respond to your accusations it will look like we are afraid of addressing the issue, which is not the case. Either way it is a no-win situation and I look like an ass. I was trying to answer some questions, which I can back up with research and spec sheets from leading LED manufacturers, not start a flame war.

PSUAGRO, if you are accusing me or Black Dog LED of not being honest in any way with my answers above or the specifications on the Black Dog LED website please state that clearly and be specific so I can address them. Further, if you work for California Light Works then let us know and I will happily draw direct comparisons between our lights based on our research, I would be happy to post spec sheets from respected companies such Cree and Osram to back my answers up, along with data from scientific instruments to prove my point. If you are not affiliated with them it wouldn't really be fair would it? As a previous grower I could not have known what I now know before joining Black Dog LED over a year ago and this conversation would quickly go over my head.

If you are a grower asking honest questions I will be happy to answer those questions about OUR lights. Let me know.
 
Perro Negro

Perro Negro

Member
guod said:
100leds... 400W... 1599$

Jungle Light is designed and assembled in the U.S.A. with U.S.A. labor.
Click to expand...
Are you serious with that light for flowering cannabis? With that spectrum? And your comment "exactly the opposite", is that a joke or a real comment?
 
E

Eraserhead

Well-Known Member
Your website says you use Epistar LEDs.

We use the best LEDs available that allow us to have our complete Phytogenesis spectrum.The only manufacturer that makes enough different nanometer (nm) LEDs in all of the wavelengths necessary to provide a full spectrum is Epistar. If a manufacturer claims to be using other LEDs exclusively you can be assured they are either not being honest about the LEDs they are using or they do not have a complete spectrum including Infrared and Ultraviolet.
Click to expand...
Do you have any manufacturer data spec sheets for these 5w Epistar LEDs? Website links? Anything?

I can't seem to find any info regarding their existence anywhere, including the Epistar website.


Perro Negro said:
Thanks for the welcome. Before I go into the details of your query can you tell me if you have any affiliation with California Light Works? I have been honest about my working at Black Dog LED. My issue is that if you were just asking about our lights and had not brought any of our competition into the mix it would be more simple. If i explain why we are better than them it will be looked at as bashing them and they are not even here to defend themselves. I would not want the same done to Black Dog LED. If I don't respond to your accusations it will look like we are afraid of addressing the issue, which is not the case. Either way it is a no-win situation and I look like an ass. I was trying to answer some questions, which I can back up with research and spec sheets from leading LED manufacturers, not start a flame war.

PSUAGRO, if you are accusing me or Black Dog LED of not being honest in any way with my answers above or the specifications on the Black Dog LED website please state that clearly and be specific so I can address them. Further, if you work for California Light Works then let us know and I will happily draw direct comparisons between our lights based on our research, I would be happy to post spec sheets from respected companies such Cree and Osram to back my answers up, along with data from scientific instruments to prove my point. If you are not affiliated with them it wouldn't really be fair would it? As a previous grower I could not have known what I now know before joining Black Dog LED over a year ago and this conversation would quickly go over my head.

If you are a grower asking honest questions I will be happy to answer those questions about OUR lights. Let me know.
Click to expand...
 
jubiare

jubiare

Active Member
Ok Guys, the reds run hotter than the blues that is a true thing! Guod, your last three comments on the entire led section are more a piss taking than anything

and you know it. You know the blues run cooler, you are a diyer aren't you? So why do you have to be picky on that? It's not that I intend to defend Perro, but I am

more concerned about the leds debate. Blues and whites run cooler than reds, blues and whites burn more watts and can handle more watts.
 
jubiare

jubiare

Active Member
Now, perro; You know, consumers are becoming more aware of everything on this LED game. As you can see, even if not always technically correct, most end users can express their dissatisfaction with little precise little revealing answers from vendors. Do yourself and your company a massive favor: Become one of the fewest more honest more revealing companies and stop with those claims "the best light in the world" and such.

Do you really think that this thing of secrets with leds lights can carry on for much longer? When you buy a quality car, can you access all the specs and things regarding that Car? Of course you can!

I mean you do what you want and I apologize for being harsh ... but I am telling you ... people are waking up on this LED game
 
jubiare

jubiare

Active Member
I firmly believe that, as things stand now, area51(fero?) is everybody's best bet. This is why:

FACTS:
- All datasheets of diodes are listed and disclosed
- They use good diodes, helixeon
- They run their diodes at 600mA ..... They are nearly the only ones! You might think that's not important but that is REALLY important! Especially for the reds! How long do you want your panel lasting for? Even if you want to sell it.. do you want to make a politically correct sell or you don't give a flying duck? They are the ONLY ONES I heard doinG this .... and that's UNBELIEVABLE, very responsible of them but crazy no one else look into that.
- Prices are not bad!!!! compared to those companies that states "the best grow light in the world blah blah blah"!!!!
-Live time warranty.
-disclosure of all other components
-open research of spectrum employed
- customer service you can speak to

OPINIONS:
- good compromise between new tech, money invested and quality ..... I mean in a few years you'll be prob wanting something NEW? given the technology advancement you most likely will .... so.
- you want better than that, there is some better than that, but if costs you more, and you'll want something new anyway in a few years?

- Those guys are here to stay, so the life time policy is there, in my view.

I am a diyer, I don't work for nobody I don't sell my panels.
I would go with a51 if I was an end user, honest to God. There is a few highest components panels perhaps, but why spend all that money right now if I can have a good compromise?

And one thing is for sure, between the "commercial" companies shipping from China etc, a51 is the winner those days, you should have no doubts! It's when we are talking about some higher tech, all disclosed, all serious business ....... that's when you can consider something else, but as I said, spend more.

Or Diy before you die

Peace and fairness
J.

 
J

Jennylasting

Active Member
^^^ i completely agree, i researched for a month before i bought my light and although AF51 has a realllly bare webstie, everything you need is there and no wild claims.
 
J

Jennylasting

Active Member
Perro your gonna have to come up with something good now eh? i hope so, i'd like to see more honest companies, but you said you'd reference Cree led sheets for your product, which you dont use? jumping on the Cree bandwagon is a bit easy isnt it, they're good but they arent the holy grail
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
Perro Negro said:
Are you serious with that light for flowering cannabis? With that spectrum? And your comment "exactly the opposite", is that a joke or a real comment?
Click to expand...
ups..Ok, that link is misplaced in this part of the thread

anyway...

i post a link and some facts/jokes from the link. there is no comment from me over this light, good or bad. did the same with your light, and sorry, no jokes! ;-)


some facts for "exactly the opposite"

....
The above inverse relationship means that light consisting of high energy photons (such as "blue" light) has a short wavelength. Light consisting of low energy photons (such as "red" light) has a long wavelength.

http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/properties-of-sunlight/energy-of-photon
-----------
the same we see at the Bandgap energie on various wavelength for leds

http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/~schubert/Light-Emitting-Diodes-dot-org/chap12/F12-09 AlGaInP Eg vs a0.jpg

but i know also that humans tends to red for warm and blue stays for cold.
it´s misleading all the time.
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
Ok Guys, the reds run hotter than the blues that is a true thing!
true things have true facts... waiting...

Guod, your last three comments on the entire led section are more a piss taking than anything and you know it... ...thanks!

You know the blues run cooler,... I know that the run hotter

you are a diyer aren't you? ...???
...
Blues and whites run cooler than reds, nop
blues and whites burn more watts and can handle more watts.
more watts for the blue leds ...should be clear
can handle more watts ...better say the output efficiency on higher Die-Temps is better.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Perro Negro said:
Thanks for the welcome. Before I go into the details of your query can you tell me if you have any affiliation with California Light Works? I have been honest about my working at Black Dog LED. My issue is that if you were just asking about our lights and had not brought any of our competition into the mix it would be more simple. If i explain why we are better than them it will be looked at as bashing them and they are not even here to defend themselves. I would not want the same done to Black Dog LED. If I don't respond to your accusations it will look like we are afraid of addressing the issue, which is not the case. Either way it is a no-win situation and I look like an ass. I was trying to answer some questions, which I can back up with research and spec sheets from leading LED manufacturers, not start a flame war.

PSUAGRO, if you are accusing me or Black Dog LED of not being honest in any way with my answers above or the specifications on the Black Dog LED website please state that clearly and be specific so I can address them. Further, if you work for California Light Works then let us know and I will happily draw direct comparisons between our lights based on our research, I would be happy to post spec sheets from respected companies such Cree and Osram to back my answers up, along with data from scientific instruments to prove my point. If you are not affiliated with them it wouldn't really be fair would it? As a previous grower I could not have known what I now know before joining Black Dog LED over a year ago and this conversation would quickly go over my head.

If you are a grower asking honest questions I will be happy to answer those questions about OUR lights. Let me know.
Click to expand...
Nope not affiliated with CLW, just a small scale grower who likes to play with new grow tech:) I brought up CLW because their the only true 5w panel fixtures on the market as of now( don't know why lumi decided to mix 3/5w on the PRO), that's why it's relevant; George (owner) has answered all of the spec ?? I've asked him, And has no qualms about revealing his components used, why? because their very good quality throughout......the same with area 51/ very truthful about specs. I linked that page too show you how "large" the heatsinks are on CLW fixtures, and to be sure when you say blackdog has "the largest heat sinks in the industry", you mean it! (a pic would be nice for proof)..............So again please due tell us what type of "true" 5w diodes (epistar??really?:P) you are using in your proud Universal series and their average forward driving currents????????? Thanks

Not trying to be a dick, but we've seen allot of BS in the led industry over the years and RIU's led community has become very educated in this tech due to some very smart/ unbiased teacher's in this forum..............You're a "previous grower" so you understand what this is all about then...........
 
jubiare

jubiare

Active Member
XLampXP-E-2.jpg

Look at the data sheets.

Whites/blues handle heat at a given mA (current)
Its almost linear?

Reds flux decreases as heat arises, its more like a curve.
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
jubiare said:
...
Reds flux decreases as heat arises, its more like a curve.
Click to expand...
from my last post post
can handle more watts ...better say the output efficiency on higher Die-Temps is better.
Click to expand...
but let´s go for this..

two different red leds on this behavior
on blue/white leds at this temp.(80°C) we see more or less 90%

red-loss.jpg

it´s not the color, it´s the chip material
 
jubiare

jubiare

Active Member
That's right, so it's not the opposite as you stated.

It's not the opposite material.

REDS (DIFFERENT MATERIAL) RUN HOTTEN THAN BLUES. it's not the opposite.

(Not tu you directly) Also running red harder decreases the efficiency, gets them considerably hotter. No good, for a very slight increase in photons.

BEST TO DO NOT RUN REDS HARDER THAN 600mA. You are to be much more efficient and gentle to the diode. Employ slight higher number of red diodes (more costly) as opposed to run them harder (less costly, do that but be really really anal with heat dissipation, and expect diodes to decrease in efficiency at faster rate).

We are talking about 3watters here. Of course 1watters handle heat better, given you run them at 350mA (actually some of them can handle 400mA nicely).

So be very careful when you get excited about 5watters, how much current they can really handle? Without damaging them? Is it really worth it in terms of photons gained?

MORE WATTS IS NOT ALWAYS MORE PHOTONS (usable energy for plants)

Actually sometimes you decrease photons in the name of watts!

You can cool the die with as much water magic things whatever, junction temperature is going to do what it does if you run diodes the hardest..... generate potential damaging heat to the body itself.

Why would you on earth want to spend a fortune for that anyway? For employing a few less diodes? When you can employ a few more, have the realistic thermal path dissipation and be a happy bun?

As things stand now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top