LED, Inda-Gro Induction, Plasma, CMH, MH or HPS? This may help you decide...

BML Guys

I just completed a grow using a SPYDR 600 (Link to my thread in signature)

I chose to mix blues/whites/reds to be capable for both veg and flower

Acid, I would go with 2 @ 3ft instead. Gives you a lot more flexibility

I would not mix 730 into the SPYDR bars

You could by a couple 2ft bars with 730 and put them on separate timer

PetFlora said:

BML Guys
I just completed a grow using a SPYDR 600 (Link to my thread in signature)

I chose to mix blues/whites/reds to be capable for both veg and flower

Acid, I would go with 2 @ 3ft instead. Gives you a lot more flexibility

I would not mix 730 into the SPYDR bars

You could by a couple 2ft bars with 730 and put them on separate timer

Click to expand...

I read some where on here that far red was good for flowering. Ahhh, here it is. Stardustsailor said this in a thread a week or two ago.

"Notice how much less transmitance and reflectance ,occur after 700 nm ,during flowering ....
Cannabis absorbs those wls during flowering ...
Massively ,in fact ..."
https://www.rollitup.org/p/10684830/

In light of this info. Would you still say to not add 730nm to a flowering led bar? I honestly don't have a clue about this stuff but Stardustsailor sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Am I misinterpreting his post? I realize that there is a little far red in the white leds but i figured adding one far red couldn't hurt.

Dojoking - In my theoretical setup of 7 bars across 24", the spacing is 1.1 inches between bars, so the light spread should be very even. At 12" above the canopy, with a 90° lens, each LED should cover an 18"x18" area, so there will be plenty of overlap, the end caps (the last 6" on both ends), would have approximately 1/2 the intensity as the rest of the canopy.

I do like the Apache, but I'm looking to do stand alone units with dedicated lighting, I'm planning on 6'Lx24W"x8'H wire shelving, chosen so that I have easy access all around the plants, both above the canopy and below. Anything wider than 24" and accessing the inner plants becomes much more difficult.

PetFlora - Testing that Inda-Gro did showed that exposure to 730nm almost doubled the Flowering/Fruiting sites, Tomatoes in their case, from 49 to 92. Their pontoon only added 40 watts of light (a mix of 660nm and 730nm) figure evenly split 20w each for the 660nm & 730nm.

The 660nm added about 27% more umol/s in the red spectrum, but that wouldn't account for the yield increasing by 2.14x at the most conservative estimate. The 730nm's are definitely playing their part.

Some light sources and their comparisons to sunlight.

About 17% of sunlight falls in the far red, I think I'll be safe with my 8% combined

acidking said:

Dojoking - In my theoretical setup of 7 bars across 24", the spacing is 1.1 inches between bars, so the light spread should be very even. At 12" above the canopy, with a 90° lens, each LED should cover an 18"x18" area, so there will be plenty of overlap, the end caps (the last 6" on both ends), would have approximately 1/2 the intensity as the rest of the canopy.

I do like the Apache, but I'm looking to do stand alone units with dedicated lighting, I'm planning on 6'Lx24W"x8'H wire shelving, chosen so that I have easy access all around the plants, both above the canopy and below. Anything wider than 24" and accessing the inner plants becomes much more difficult.

Click to expand...

Ahh I see, I forgot about the spread from a 90 degree lens. Sounds good to me

Here is some info about percentage of blue light for flowering I found when reading about Gavita's plasma fixtures you might find interesting.

"Research indicates a requirement for 7% blue light spectrum as a good balance with the HPS light for quality plant development. The highest measurable increase in quality of added blue light was found within the 0-10% more blue light. Above that level blue light still increases the quality and yield of the crop, but it doesn’t increase as much as within the 0-10% range. Below that level plants can suffer from the imbalance in the spectrum, as in a deterioration of their photosynthetic system, more compact growth, vulnerability for disease and fungi and a less efficient morphogenesis."

http://www.gavita-holland.com/helpdesk/download_attachment.php?kb_att=1

dojoking - Since HPS lights are severely lacking in the blue spectrum it's no surprise that the first 10% has such a huge effect. I'd liken it to being dehydrated in the desert, the first 10 oz of water is going to help you a lot, the next 10 oz less so, by the time you hit 50 oz your bladders full and you really can't use any more water.

It seems both of you missed me saying 730 is best on separate bars/timer

How much and for how long has been debated

Being pragmatic, I don't see the increase worth the cost (quality 730s ain't cheap), but then my SPYDR has 3000/2700 and 625, which somewhat extend into FR

funny, they don't say what ballasts or bulbs they used, Because they do have different outputs, Just saying.
Not putting down L.E.D, but UNTIL there is an affordable plug and play unit that competes with a hps, You really can't compare the two.

chuck estevez said:

funny, they don't say what ballasts or bulbs they used, Because they do have different outputs, Just saying.
Not putting down L.E.D, but UNTIL there is an affordable plug and play unit that competes with a hps, You really can't compare the two.

Click to expand...

https://www.rollitup.org/t/apache-at600-led-vs-1000w-hps-blue-dream-grow.813412/

chuck estevez said:

funny, they don't say what ballasts or bulbs they used, Because they do have different outputs, Just saying.
Not putting down L.E.D, but UNTIL there is an affordable plug and play unit that competes with a hps, You really can't compare the two.

Click to expand...

Well if you look at the total watts consumed, you'll notice that they are using quality HID gear. Above average power factors on the digi/mag ballasts. Your correct on the bulbs though=== it's an important unknown here.

"affordability" varies from consumer to consumer, ROI isn't that great on any new light tech.

PetFlora said:

It seems both of you missed me saying 730 is best on separate bars/timer

Click to expand...

Actually, you didn't say that, at least not on this thread. what you said was...

PetFlora said:

You could by a couple 2ft bars with 730 and put them on separate timer

Click to expand...

Granted, having the 730's on a separate timer would be ideal, but that's an added expense, better, in my opinion, just to throw a couple on the Bloom bars so they're evenly spaced and live with them being always on during the Bloom cycle.

PetFlora said:

I MAY have the answer for everyone who cannot afford $500 panels to cover 2.5^ ft

Supposed to be getting a 150 and 260w panels to test/report soon

Should be here before I start my next grow ~ mid August

Click to expand...

Can you state from what company yet?

acidking said:

Actually, you didn't say that, at least not on this thread. what you said was...


Granted, having the 730's on a separate timer would be ideal, but that's an added expense, better, in my opinion, just to throw a couple on the Bloom bars so they're evenly spaced and live with them being always on during the Bloom cycle.

Click to expand...

WTF?

C& P from my original reply...

I would not mix 730 into the SPYDR bars

You could by a couple 2ft bars with 730 and put them on separate timer

hyroot said:

Can you state from what company yet?

Click to expand...

Not until I get the word

Totally new, but developed by a grower for growers

PetFlora said:

WTF?

C& P from my original reply...

I would not mix 730 into the SPYDR bars

You could by a couple 2ft bars with 730 and put them on separate timer

Click to expand...

My understanding is the benefit of 730's is to be used as an initiator at lights out for 5-10 minutes to trigger the plants into sleep mode faster. imo it wouldn't make sense to have them on all the time, am I off track? I'm thinking of a couple of these BML bars on separate timers would work well down the road if their pricing isn't ridiculous.

PetFlora said:

It seems both of you missed me saying 730 is best on separate bars/timer

How much and for how long has been debated

Being pragmatic, I don't see the increase worth the cost (quality 730s ain't cheap), but then my SPYDR has 3000/2700 and 625, which somewhat extend into FR

Click to expand...

In my instance, I want the Far Red to be included in my spectrum with the other leds for the entire flowering process. If I were looking to induce flowering at the end of my lighting schedule with this by using Far Red to put my plants to sleep faster then a separate bars/timer setup like you mentioned would be used. Which I do plan on doing as well.

SDS is suggesting 730 on with the regular light schedule AND as an initiator is beneficial to buds after flowers have set in (after your two week stretch) because it makes the rest of the red wavelengths more readily available/absorbed. I'll be doing this too...well after stretch. Probably week 4 on.

Hmmm, sounds like more to research. If there is a benefit to having them on towards the end, those bars separate timers would still work, just run them for 12 hours and 10 minutes for the last 3-4 weeks, rather than having integrated 730's + separate initiators.

GroErr said:

Hmmm, sounds like more to research. If there is a benefit to having them on towards the end, those bars separate timers would still work, just run them for 12 hours and 10 minutes for the last 3-4 weeks, rather than having integrated 730's + separate initiators.

Click to expand...

Please see my earlier post on this same page that quoted Stardustsailor. It has the link to another thread containing the details he provided.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-inda-gro-induction-plasma-cmh-mh-or-hps-this-may-help-you-decide.836806/page-2#post-10725441