LED Lights Staying Slightly Lit When Timer Switches Off!!!

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Gumpf

Member
So if that timer above is breaking the neutral circuit as well as the live surely its doing the same as adding an in line neutral timer as I've suggested...whatta you reckon?
 
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1212ham

Well-Known Member
Star Dog said:
It might have been said, I've read about this before fairly recently, what some members thought was that the live and neutral are back to front in the wall or in the unit?
The timer is shutting down the neutral so there's live still leaking in?
I've a led with a digital timer and it goes off completely.
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That's what I've read, it's an issue with the outlet wiring.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Gumpf said:
Yep I've got this occurring with a mars ts1000 it also did it with a viparspectra p600....so if we've got a trickle voltage thru the neutral could we break the neutral wire, put a plug on the two ends and put it in another relay timer to flick the neutral off ? Then set the neutral timer 5 mins before and after the live wire timer.
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You'd be much better off to simply make a reverse wiring cable to place between your timer and the wall plug. Swap the hot and neutral. What you are describing seems to be reversed AC wiring to your circuit, so if you simply reverse that again with a short power cable before it gets to the timer, the problem should resolve. $5 fix
 
1

1212ham

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
You'd be much better off to simply make a reverse wiring cable to place between your timer and the wall plug. Swap the hot and neutral. What you are describing seems to be reversed AC wiring to your circuit, so if you simply reverse that again with a short power cable before it gets to the timer, the problem should resolve. $5 fix
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No! Wire the outlet correctly if that's the problem!
 
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PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
1212ham said:
No! Wire the outlet correctly if that's the problem!
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Sure you could do that too, and you are correct that is the best solution, but my fix is simpler and does not require calling an electrician. Plus it will tell you whether or not that is the issue before changing your home wiring.
 
ColoradoHighGrower

ColoradoHighGrower

Well-Known Member
Cutting the neutral independently using a second timer is super dangerous, because then you could become the return (ground) much easier every time you touch anything plugged in to that line. Ground is a safety, but without neutral, ground is the only voltage return for the hot line, and electricity will ALWAYS take path of least resistance. That means you standing on moist floor and touching an electrified lamp or other metal surface. Not worth it. Just get one of these to test your outlet, turn off power at the main, check it's actuallyoff with a voltmeter before changing any wires, and simply swap out the neutral and hot or neutral and ground wires or whatever is reversed. Simple, just swapping wires under two screws and done: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Socket-Tester-Polarity-Electrical-Wiring/dp/B013WWKQV0

Just make sure power is off before sticking your tools or fingers in there!! (only millivolts between any combination of the three wires).
 
Psyphish

Psyphish

Well-Known Member
People are still having this problem? I used to have it with my old 240w Blackstar in 2010 or so. I fixed it by turning the power cord's plug in the wall socket 180 degrees. Yes, it does work. No, I don't know why or how, but it does and did. So just flip that plug.
 
G

Gumpf

Member
ColoradoHighGrower said:
Cutting the neutral independently using a second timer is super dangerous, because then you could become the return (ground) much easier every time you touch anything plugged in to that line. Ground is a safety, but without neutral, ground is the only voltage return for the hot line, and electricity will ALWAYS take path of least resistance. That means you standing on moist floor and touching an electrified lamp or other metal surface. Not worth it. Just get one of these to test your outlet, turn off power at the main, check it's actuallyoff with a voltmeter before changing any wires, and simply swap out the neutral and hot or neutral and ground wires or whatever is reversed. Simple, just swapping wires under two screws and done: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Socket-Tester-Polarity-Electrical-Wiring/dp/B013WWKQV0

Just make sure power is off before sticking your tools or fingers in there!! (only millivolts between any combination of the three wires).
Click to expand...
I got a belt last night checking for loose connections with the plug in the wall but switched off ( switched double)... so I was the voltage tester but dont know if was live or neutral. Thanks for the info. ..ill try swapping the main plug /extension leads live and neutral over....could I do this from the back of the double wall socket and make it a more permenant job? Or would that screw up the ring circuit in the room?
 
ColoradoHighGrower

ColoradoHighGrower

Well-Known Member
Gumpf said:
I got a belt last night checking for loose connections with the plug in the wall but switched off ( switched double)... so I was the voltage tester but dont know if was live or neutral. Thanks for the info. ..ill try swapping the main plug /extension leads live and neutral over....could I do this from the back of the double wall socket and make it a more permenant job? Or would that screw up the ring circuit in the room?
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What do you mean by double switch? A two-way switch, or to two socket receptacle, or a plug/plate on two side of the same wall (two rooms share same through-wall outlet)? Don't mess with 240v son, or ya gonna get burned! Always turn off entire circuit from the main panel, not just a light switch! If you can't isolate the circuit, or if you suspect and cross wiring between multiple circuits, go find a flashlight and turn the whole house main off if necessary.

The plug under question should have "pigtails" that jumper between the wall circuit wire to the plug. All you need to do is swap the correct ones. Again, you need to verify which ones are reversed (if that's even the problem) with a tester like i shared a link for first. Otherwise, you might be swapping the wrong wires, and could kill yourself. A reversed neutral-ground is just as dangerous, because it can electrifies the grounded portions of a fixture/appliamce even when "shut off" at the switch.
 
G

Gumpf

Member
ColoradoHighGrower said:
What do you mean by double switch? A two-way switch, or to two socket receptacle, or a plug/plate on two side of the same wall (two rooms share same through-wall outlet)? Don't mess with 240v son, or ya gonna get burned! Always turn off entire circuit from the main panel, not just a light switch! If you can't isolate the circuit, or if you suspect and cross wiring between multiple circuits, go find a flashlight and turn the whole house main off if necessary.

The plug under question should have "pigtails" that jumper between the wall circuit wire to the plug. All you need to do is swap the correct ones. Again, you need to verify which ones are reversed (if that's even the problem) with a tester like i shared a link for first. Otherwise, you might be swapping the wrong wires, and could kill yourself. A reversed neutral-ground is just as dangerous, because it can electrifies the grounded portions of a fixture/appliamce even when "shut off" at the switch.
Click to expand...
I haven't a clue where the circuit is reversed....but low and behold I just changed over live and neutral in the plug and the lamp switchs off completely on a timer...phew!
 
G

Gumpf

Member
Psyphish said:
People are still having this problem? I used to have it with my old 240w Blackstar in 2010 or so. I fixed it by turning the power cord's plug in the wall socket 180 degrees. Yes, it does work. No, I don't know why or how, but it does and did. So just flip that plug.
Click to expand...
It worked..Eureeka!..i reversed the polarity of the plug wires. What a relief...cheers.
 
G

Gumpf

Member
Thanks for all the input folks..i reversed the live and neutral in the walk plug and the leds now shuts off fully using a timer....it still doesnt fix the ring circuit problem but ill look into that again when ive got a circuit tester.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Apparently your outlet was wired backwards. In that case your timer was only cutting the neutral pole (instead of the hot), and allowing current to leak thru the ground from the hot line. Since AC technically has no polarity you normally wouldn't notice this sort of reverse wiring.
 
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SmokeyBear77

Member
I am having the exact same problem. After ordering my second mechanical timer power strip from a different manufacturer and lights still growing I have determined it is the power strips. There is still a little current in the recepticle probably bleefing over from the side that stays hot. It looks like my LED lights are sensitive enough to ouck io this current bleed from the hot side if these power strips. I am going to buy a single timer receptacle and plug a standard power strip in there. I will then olug my kights and such in there. I bet the lights will shut off just fine. I will keep you guys posted.
 
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SmokeyBear77

Member
I bet most people that are having this problem have a timer power strip with a "timer side" and a "always on side". I bet the LEDs are low oower enough to pick up the current bleed from the hot side. A standard lightbulb wouldn't be able to pick up such low power, but a few LEDs can.
 
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