LED LIGHTS THE ACTUAL TRUTH!

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Show me a typical 4x4' grow that yields 18-20 oz 4 to 5 times a year or basically in every season with an actually decrease of grow -cost $/gram (I don't even care about the initial investment of the LEDs) and I will seriously start considering switching to LED.
The 500W I mentioned is about 4'X5' canopy. It yields 14-16z ~6 times/year in organic soil. These are not high yielding varieties, only looking for the very dankest. I expect a commercial hydro grower could work miracles with it regarding yields.

One of the thing that keeps me interested is being able to build a closet of 2x8' instead of 4x4', a long double wall instead of closet, adding to the stealth factor. And yes, "eventually"... which comes down to the same old "LED is the future", a fact I've been hearing/reading for many years :)
Large COBs really changed the game and made "eventually" finally arrive :leaf:
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
there are tons if your search around here of people growing with the stupid par 38 lights. im sure a 50W honeycomb will do wonders.. it only take some self thought to realize that you guys are arguing nonsense.. and the truth is in the grows.. I will buy these lights or something close and start a grow to prove my words. im pretyty sure i stated that.. what you are doing is nit picking everything i say and trying to cause an argument.. for what i dont know maybe you have a small penis... but the point is.. im trying to show that you dont need to spend tons of cash to get good bud. im not saying its commercially viable.. hell if you want that go to plasma..
So you don't actually have any of these lights?
 

spazatak

Well-Known Member
there are tons if your search around here of people growing with the stupid par 38 lights. im sure a 50W honeycomb will do wonders.. it only take some self thought to realize that you guys are arguing nonsense.. and the truth is in the grows.. I will buy these lights or something close and start a grow to prove my words. im pretyty sure i stated that.. what you are doing is nit picking everything i say and trying to cause an argument.. for what i dont know maybe you have a small penis... but the point is.. im trying to show that you dont need to spend tons of cash to get good bud. im not saying its commercially viable.. hell if you want that go to plasma..
yet you have no grows with this...

I hear that four sided wheels are the best way to get around on bikes....I dont own a bike with fours sided wheels but im telling you that you dont need round wheels to have a good ride...
 

HolyGhost23

Well-Known Member
yet you have no grows with this...

I hear that four sided wheels are the best way to get around on bikes....I dont own a bike with fours sided wheels but im telling you that you dont need round wheels to have a good ride...
I dont your right.. but supra has a grow with a light that is close to the one i listed.. I will have a grow with these style of lights. and post my journal on here.. i will let the result s speak for themselves.. and put your banter to an end. you can get good bud with out wasting tons of cash on crap bullshit and lies..or in the case of the A51 light simply way too much mark up.
 

spazatak

Well-Known Member
I dont your right.. but supra has a grow with a light that is close to the one i listed.. I will have a grow with these style of lights. and post my journal on here.. i will let the result s speak for themselves.. and put your banter to an end. you can get good bud with out wasting tons of cash on crap bullshit and lies..or in the case of the A51 light simply way too much mark up.
there is a reason people choose certain lights and the a51 has had many successful grows.... yours is still in the brainstorming stage and doubt very much whether you will back up your claims...
 

Chronikool

Well-Known Member
I dont your right.. but supra has a grow with a light that is close to the one i listed.. I will have a grow with these style of lights. and post my journal on here.. i will let the result s speak for themselves.. and put your banter to an end. you can get good bud with out wasting tons of cash on crap bullshit and lies..or in the case of the A51 light simply way too much mark up.
I have used the generic multichip 50 x 1w diodes (can grow)
I have used the multichip 50w (10 x 5w cree xpg (and xpg2)) modules (better at growing)
i have used the CXA cree COBs 3050 and 3070 (best i have tried at growing (thus far) )

Also are you sure Supra has used a light that is close to the 50 x 1w multichip? Lookz can be deceiving... :)
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
The 500W I mentioned is about 4'X5' canopy. It yields 14-16z ~6 times/year in organic soil. These are not high yielding varieties, only looking for the very dankest. I expect a commercial hydro grower could work miracles with it regarding yields.


Large COBs really changed the game and made "eventually" finally arrive :leaf:
They're certainly much cheaper and easier to build. Though for years I've heard that the main benefit of LEDs was they didn't waste electric on "unneeded" spectra. Now, everyone seems to being moving towards using white COB chips.
 

Chronikool

Well-Known Member
They're certainly much cheaper and easier to build. Though for years I've heard that the main benefit of LEDs was they didn't waste electric on "unneeded" spectra. Now, everyone seems to being towards using white COB chips.
I dont think the 'correct spectrum' or formula has been found yet....the quest for finding this out, is what half of this LED sub forum is about....isnt it fun! :)
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
KNNA has been onto the white thing for years, mixing whites in with reds n blues. He said it seemed that some varieties required white for flowering. Back in those days there werent any decent whites. Now the whites are the highest efficiency available but I still like to add deep red.
 
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Red1966

Well-Known Member
We really never had a way to experiment with different spectra until we had LED. I doubt all plants use light exactly the same way or in the same proportions, either.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
We really never had a way to experiment with different spectra until we had LED. I doubt all plants use light exactly the same way or in the same proportions, either.
not true. Before led finally improved. Many of use were playing with various spectrums with par t5 with Aquariam reef and fresh water bulbs.. Everything I learned about spectra I got from years of par t5 and constantly changing up spectrum.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
T5 don't emit a single spectrum like LEDs. Useful, sure, but not as useful as LEDs. But I can see where you could gain insight that way. I suppose various filters could be used, also. So I'll retract my statement. It came from a comment of Ed Rosenthal I heard. (Did I spell "Rosethal" correctly?)
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
T5 don't emit a single spectrum like LEDs. Useful, sure, but not as useful as LEDs. But I can see where you could gain insight that way. I suppose various filters could be used, also. So I'll retract my statement. It came from a comment of Ed Rosenthal I heard. (Did I spell "Rosethal" correctly?)

not quite monochromatic.


they have a 660 with only a 660 spike. I have to dig through emails to find the spd
 

HolyGhost23

Well-Known Member
i know a chinese nock off is not going perform as well as an american made CREE cob style light but i believe the idea is the same... hell when i was a lad.. we used mercury vapour lights.. and those put out about 6-8000 lumens a piece.. they did wonders when chronic was the king strain.. so yeah the cheap 50x1w might not be the best of the LED world. but i think a grow can still be done..

also you have no idea what im planning for my grow journal.. ive been on this fourm for years and what im planning for my first real grow journal is going to be an idea ive wanted to put out there for a while.. so don't go assuming im all words..

on that note is there any way of testing thc content of a plant in your own home.. and if not is there a lab that will take samples?
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
not quite monochromatic.


they have a 660 with only a 660 spike. I have to dig through emails to find the spd
I was on their site recently. Looks like the 660 did not go into production.

The two 660s I had did not last past 2 grows
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
That sucks that so much of the season is high humidity, but HPS is not going to help with that either and it actually increases transpiration putting more water in the air.
Yeah it does suck, especially during the fall you can actually notice the decreased quality in coffeeshops, sometimes referred to as 'wet-basement-weed' (sounds better in dutch). You say the HPS is not 'going' to help, yet the reality is it has been successfully doing so for many decades, and again in combination with a tried and proven design in which the HPS+exhaust+space balance is key to creating a workeable environment without having to spend a lot on airco and climate control.

It is high humidity combined with cold that causes rot and mold and some of the abundant airborne spores and plant diseases to thrive. The HPS warmth/heat helps prevent problems that arise from not being able to suck in air that's far less humid than what the plants create by transpiration during lights on. HPS causes more transpiration than LED, of course, the better temp alone will do that. Although there is a point of no return, generally more transpiration isn't a bad thing unless it becomes too much, on the contrary. Also warm air can retain humid more easily, a good exhaust takes care of that increase. Lowering the exhaust output, as would be necessary to prevent it from getting too cold, is only going to make matters worse.

And of course during lights out the true humidity levels will set in regardless of which light is used.
Indeed, but at least with HPS and the inherit high exhaust output it lowers and warms up significantly during lights on. When replacing that HPS with LED and lowering the exhaust it will remain closer to the 'true humidity level' which is a combination of the environment the plants create AND the air sucked in.

Another reason LED is the best option for a limited space is - it uses vertical space more efficiently. The LEDs can be as close as 6" to the canopy and they have a slim vertical profile. So you could use LED in a shelving situation to really maximize a space.

For example, I stack vegging and cloning boxes.
My cloning box uses a Cree XML2 4500K U2 that is running at 300mA <1W and is creating 175 lumens/W. That is about 55% efficient and it is running so cool that it will last indefinitely without lumen depreciation (my lifetime).
So do some large greenhouses here, stacking many layers of clones and tissue culture and using LED, in which case it is specifically meant to replace T5 and T8 and not HPS SON-T. Stacking multiple grows that normally use HPS isn't going to work in our rooms, basements, tents, and attics so I cannot really consider that a valid argument.

The 500W I mentioned is about 4'X5' canopy. It yields 14-16z
That's good enough to match HPS in gpw but again you underestimate the surface area factor. Someone with a 4x5' space here is going to use a 600 watt HPS +10% boast and get 20+ oz instead. Or use a 1000watter with dimmer to save some electricity the first weeks before the canopy fully fills the room and get 30+ oz from it. Saving 100W would effectively mean a pretty huge loss for a typical 'breadgrower' here (based on 6 cycles a year that would be roughly $4500. Not even mentioning the additional investment and climate control costs as I outlined in previous posts. When you actually need to pay bills and put food on the table by growing mj 'efficiency' takes on a more realistic, and practical form.
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Regarding humidity, my approach is to take in cold dry air from the outside when it is available. When the humidity rises outside, I recirculate the indoor air. If it stays humid outside for long enough I am forced to use a dehumidifier because I am not willing to compromise on bud quality. Luckily it is only during the warmest season that I have to use it. That situation is made worse by HPS because it drives more water into the air. Since switching to LED I use my AC and dehumidifier much less, but never use a heater.

Sure you could stack flowering shelves with LED, whats to stop it?

Regarding my yield, you have to take into consideration that yield is not my first priority in selection, it is quality. Out of 120 females so far, I have never found a large yielder that had enough funk to make the cut. Also consider, when I was using 600 HPS my very best yield was .56 gr/W. As the bulbs aged I was getting .3 -.4 gr/W consistently. Using the same space, same soil, same bucket and the same rotation of cuttings LED gets me almost 1 gr/W. So if your guys are getting 30 oz, I expect they will continue to get their 30oz but using only half the wattage and less electricity on AC and ventilation.

Anyway, I am just trying to show the potential for improvement that exists out there, I don't want to be telling you that your way is wrong. If it is working for you then I am all for it :joint:

Nothing wrong with the good old HPS. Best HPS run:
DSC06100a.jpg
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
@ supra what if its dry but very hot outside. even at night... do you still bring air. I do. If i dont the humidity rises quite a bit inside.. I havent had pm once since living in this spot. I don't want to either.

Idk just still figuring shit out as I go. Almost 15 years at this. Sometimes still feel like a noob
 
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