LED Thread regarding stalk weight difference between LED & HPS

[Johnny Lawrence]

I agree with %100 of this. What is really frustrating is the low availability of high quality OTS led fixtures. As I said, HLG and Timber do it right but they sell out nearly the second they become available. As a consumer I would love it if a wealth of companies sprouted up who put out the kind of quality those companies do. Competition spurs innovation and brings prices down. But the poor quality of the vast majority of readily available ots lights leads to people feeling the way you do. Ripped off and disappointed.
All I can say is that the difference between those lights and the top of the line QB, COB and strips is huge and the THC producing metric you talked about becomes every bit as good as HID.
All that being said, if HID works really well in your environment I would never see a reason to tell you to switch.

The idiot you're replying to has seen links to HLG and Timber, and still continues to spew stupid fucking rants as if they somehow make sense.

 

[sparkygeek]

Sorry I must have misread your earlier post as I thought you had built one either for yourself or a friend. I don’t have a problem with you, however if your an electrician wouldn’t you email and ask the company on the actual draw and what components they use? I mean I work with computers and networks for many clients. I always email and ask these sort of questions if they can’t answer them I’m not buying from them. I want folks that can tell me about the product inside and out especially if they selling it. I mean what if I need parts later on or warranty work. I have no issue with anyone evaluating technologies on any front but there should be some red flags waving in your head when you see certain numbers or claims.

Asking for specs works well when you're buried by hype... You should know that. I never said I was an electrician... For some reason you've mentioned it twice... You'll probably feel better if you just get that out of your head...

 

[sparkygeek]

You should maybe try and stick with one story.

Disjointed much?

Everyones' favorite troll! Got anything to add to the conversation... No, why am I not surprised...

 

[Lordhooha]

Asking for specs works well when you're buried by hype... You should know that. I never said I was an electrician... For some reason you've mentioned it twice... You'll probably feel better if you just get that out of your head...

Well you said you were an “engineeer” I assumed electrical engineer I guess I was mistaken.

 

[ANC]

I flipped my Gen 3 girls just now so we will see in about 7 weeks how tight the buds are they grew.
CXM22s grew rock hard buds.

The only over the counter I would consider is HLG, basically as it is the same thing as a Gen 3 in a different form factor.

 

[Lordhooha]

Asking for specs works well when you're buried by hype... You should know that. I never said I was an electrician... For some reason you've mentioned it twice... You'll probably feel better if you just get that out of your head...

When I said spec I meant drivers used, voltage that’s being pushed to said lights, where did you source the chips from and what they’re rated for. A reputable company will either a: already give you these deals or b: give them to you without issue. Most companies like timber, hlg and a few others will give the details right off the bat.

 

[churchhaze]

Specs mean you have to give more information than "i bought it in 2017". People sell the crap they couldn't sell in 2016 in 2017.

Driver (efficiency?, power factor correction?), chip make/model, bins, phosphor used, current through cobs would tell you the most. I've always said if even bin isn't listed (when applicable), I'd pass.

Any information they're not telling you, assume the worst. Having companies list things like bin gives companies a good way to build their integrity.

 

[CobKits]

Based on my informal tests of a Gen 1 COB vs HPS, it's still a no-brainer. I am estimating 20-40% higher electrical costs per gram THC. Yes, you read that right. The overall efficiency of my OTS 1st-gen COB was significantly lower than my HPS. (I was surprised how bad it compared.) The upfront costs were the same for a 200 watt COB LED vs 150 watt HPS. (At least it no longer costs you more up front.) Now that the focus is on COB hopefully the advances will make COB LED competitive with HPS in the near future. All the best!

just as an aside
"Gen 1" is meaningless to most people as
vero is on gen 7
citizen is on gen 6
luminus is on gen 3
cree doesnt even use "gen" notation

sorry you got burned with the cheap no name fixture.. of which there are many that are no more efficient than HPS. if you ever want to give good cob tech a try holler there are many people here that can make some recs

wasnt giving you shade on the "bought in 2012"? comment... thats what i think of when i think of first gen cobs (by legit manufacturers). yours may have been at efficiency level... or maybe worse depending on a number of factors (relative efficiency of the cobs used as well as how hard they were driven and how well they were cooled

there is a reason people are constantly taking "off the shelf" lights and retrofitting them with good cobs.... the performance differences are staggering

 

[Chip Green]

Asking for specs works well when you're buried by hype...

Its only "hype" to the naysayers....

Asking for specs also allows the many extremely knowledgeable members, who fully understand the concept of how LED technologies can be applied for PAR range photon output, to make valid comparisons on expected results, from one product to the next....

 

[CobKits]

but I will be replacing 1200W of hps with 500W of CXB 3590. are they that much better than vero?

vero C are better than cxb3590 (and slightly cheaper)
at 50-70W luminus cxm22 is as efficient as vero C and the lowest price of all of the chips mentioned above

 

[CobKits]

The cheap lights are what is in production therefore all that is currently available to anyone not wanting to DIY.

thats not true at all
timber
HLG
PLC
ChilLED
California Lightworks
Amare

all legit plug and play options

 

[sparkygeek]

When I said spec I meant drivers used, voltage that’s being pushed to said lights, where did you source the chips from and what they’re rated for. A reputable company will either a: already give you these deals or b: give them to you without issue. Most companies like timber, hlg and a few others will give the details right off the bat.

Each one of these posts prove my point...
A grower just wants a light to grow flowers. The grower reaches out to the folks here at RIU and they hear lots of babble an insults regarding LED but no clear recommendations on a specific system. The growers using HPS reach out about their results and they receive nothing but insults and babble. If someone dares post anything that appears to counter the LED hype, let's make sure we do everything we work to discredit the poster. Maybe just focusing on the posters' facts would be a better tack? The emperor is wearing no clothes.

thats not true at all
timber
HLG
PLC
ChilLED
California Lightworks
Amare

all legit plug and play options

This is almost the sort of stuff that can help someone navigate the options to find what works best for them in their application. I say almost only because there is some information missing... Model numbers. Model Numbers point to specific systems that people can compare as closely as possible. The uproar over my gen1 COB estimates is a perfect example... Count how many posters wanted to know specifics about a light that was inferior. It didn't matter that everyone commenting knew the facts were accurate (the light was inferior), only that they felt it countered their LED argument (not the intent) so it had to be torn apart. My purpose for running the estimate was for me to understand where production COB systems stood at the time of my purchase. As I honestly believe COB is a game-changer for LED in terms of cost and scalability, I wanted to see where COB stood in relative cost efficiency, in my application, at the time of my purchase. The industry created this mess by puffing up LED ratings with nonsense like "comparable wattage". Sure, the puffing up of ratings was started by the cheap COB vendors in order to move inventory... The major problem with the outrageous marketing is typically on-the-level vendors are forced to overcome a tidal wave of misinformation. It's usually easier to ignore the cheap marketers rather than sink into the minutia, ultimately leaving the quality COB vendors tarred with the same brush as the cheap COB vendors. Vendors of Uninterruptible Power Supplies (UPS) faced the same issue when Chinese vendors first entered the U.S. market... Unlike quality UPS vendors, quality COB vendors can't count on the advent of power correction power supplies to drive the quality point home. On it's current path, the LED industry is on it's own to clean up this mess...

 

[sparkygeek]

Its only "hype" to the naysayers....

Asking for specs also allows the many extremely knowledgeable members, who fully understand the concept of how LED technologies can be applied for PAR range photon output, to make valid comparisons on expected results, from one product to the next....

How about the unknowledgeable growers that reach out about the LED they just purchased or were considering purchasing and are greeted with, "That LED is junk". What if a grower is only interested in how much THC/CBD they can produce for every dollar they spend? Can you provide the necessary correlation between the PAR range photon output and the amount of THC produced per dollar? I understand PAR range photon output provides comparative information to those evaluating different LED configurations. What does it provide to someone trying to make an apples to apples comparison? For a grower, efficiency is measured in how much meds do I produce for how much money... Nothing else matters to the grower so that is the metric that matters.

 

[Lordhooha]

Each one of these posts prove my point...
A grower just wants a light to grow flowers. The grower reaches out to the folks here at RIU and they hear lots of babble an insults regarding LED but no clear recommendations on a specific system. The growers using HPS reach out about their results and they receive nothing but insults and babble. If someone dares post anything that appears to counter the LED hype, let's make sure we do everything we work to discredit the poster. Maybe just focusing on the posters' facts would be a better tack? The emperor is wearing no clothes.

I feel like there have been more than enough people that had recommended a quality light many times over. Most of us simply pointed out you apparently had no clue what you were talking about in the led realm yet you continued to use your shitty Chinese light that you most likely bought off eBay to show that in no way or form could led be on par or better than your light of choice. But alas I’ve concluded your a simple mined asshat how more than likely also believes the earth is flat. I’m done trying to inform you or anyone else on anything led. It’s a lost cause on most people with your mindset and simply a waste of my time. Thank you and good day sir.

 

[sparkygeek]

I feel like there have been more than enough people that had recommended a quality light many times over. Most of us simply pointed out you apparently had no clue what you were talking about in the led realm yet you continued to use your shitty Chinese light that you most likely bought off eBay to show that in no way or form could led be on par or better than your light of choice. But alas I’ve concluded your a simple mined asshat how more than likely also believes the earth is flat. I’m done trying to inform you or anyone else on anything led. It’s a lost cause on most people with your mindset and simply a waste of my time. Thank you and good day sir.

I must have been mistaken... I didn't see any model numbers in any of the posts recommending LED. Now I understand why you can't wrap your head around the problem... The world is not flat my friend... No matter how much you believe it!

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

I must have been mistaken... I didn't see any model numbers in any of the posts recommending LED. Now I understand why you can't wrap your head around the problem... The world is not flat my friend... No matter how much you believe it!

What's the model number on your "first gen cob"? Who made it? What's the company?

 

[Lordhooha]

I must have been mistaken... I didn't see any model numbers in any of the posts recommending LED. Now I understand why you can't wrap your head around the problem... The world is not flat my friend... No matter how much you believe it!

I said you more than likely believes the earth is flat. Sadly autocorrect is also an asshat. I know the earth is a ball.

 

[Kingrow1]

Sorry i dont get on here as much as i need to ta keep you led growers from these outlandish claims.

Another point thats become obvious fro grows here is that in veg leds never grew plants as quick as the equivelant mh. If they really did give off more and fuller spectrum light this simply wouldnt be the case.

Theres too many obvious flaws to leds to pick on...

 

[Kingrow1]

I said you more than likely believes the earth is flat. Sadly autocorrect is also an asshat. I know the earth is a ball.

Led thread dude, the earth is a spherical plane from our view point, a ball is like seven gens of science ago....

 

[Kingrow1]

Its only "hype" to the naysayers....

Asking for specs also allows the many extremely knowledgeable members, who fully understand the concept of how LED technologies can be applied for PAR range photon output, to make valid comparisons on expected results, from one product to the next....

Led growers use par in a simplistic way, you know very little of the higher science really, kind of why knowledgeable members been laughing at the claims for quite some time.