Led Users Unite!

budlover909 said:

so i been doing a lot of reading and these 12 spectrum panels are bull unles you trying to grow algae and bacteria go read up on wikipedia then follow every source and read thats what i been doing these past several days andof almostevery spectrum i see in these many spetrum panels half only work on bacteria and algae and a couple of the wavelengths are actually emited by other side plasmids so trying to put those in the panel makes zero sense as the plant totally rejects that light anything mo than 290 420 460 630 660 740 looks like its pretty much wasted I made a chart of every plasmid and what wavelengths is absorbed or emitted and crossed of copies or too close to matter stuff and when it gets down to it for land plants those 6 are al you need for a full crop all those other spectrums are almostentirely wasted light carotene is already hit by 460 near one of its peaks so trying to add 50 whatever aint worth it and most other chlorophylls are in algae or bacteria so no sense trying to target those unles you want that stuff growing

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Yeah I don't know much about all that stuff myself, but people are saying that the some of differen't chlorophyl and other bits running around in cannabis have differen't wavelength/spectrums preferences just like whole plants do (that plants like lettuce which has few preferences because its simple but cannabis has many because its complicated. I absolutely believe that most plants can all get by with the same few lights like you say, but I also believe that all the different microorganisms and such that operate the plants have adapted to specific wavelengths/spectrums.

It seems to me that while most all plants can get by with say a 6 band or whatever, but a complicated plant with as much going on as cannabis may be optimized for more than 6 bands. 12 spectrum panels have been around for awhile now, nobody seems to be trying and besting that to get ahead in the market which only leads me to believe it more. growledhydro grows medical marijuana and says they did all the testing on differen't watt diodes, lens angles, spectrums , etc. and found that 12 wavelengths/whateverthehellpeoplecallem worked best for cannabis. I think the race for specific wavelenths is now over and things have settled at 12, the contest has become making more powerful watt diodes of certain wavelengths (some reds run weaker than most others). There is nothing to compete over now except the wattage of the diodes

jdizzle22 said:

Yeah I don't know much about all that stuff myself, but people are saying that the some of differen't chlorophyl and other bits running around in cannabis have differen't wavelength/spectrums preferences just like whole plants do (that plants like lettuce which has few preferences because its simple but cannabis has many because its complicated. I absolutely believe that most plants can all get by with the same few lights like you say, but I also believe that all the different microorganisms and such that operate the plants have adapted to specific wavelengths/spectrums.

It seems to me that while most all plants can get by with say a 6 band or whatever, but a complicated plant with as much going on as cannabis may be optimized for more than 6 bands. 12 spectrum panels have been around for awhile now, nobody seems to be trying and besting that to get ahead in the market which only leads me to believe it more. growledhydro grows medical marijuana and says they did all the testing on differen't watt diodes, lens angles, spectrums , etc. and found that 12 wavelengths/whateverthehellpeoplecallem worked best for cannabis. I think the race for specific wavelenths is now over and things have settled at 12, the contest has become making more powerful watt diodes of certain wavelengths (some reds run weaker than most others). There is nothing to compete over now except the wattage of the diodes

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The LED I'm running is 11 spectrum and I'm kinda inclined to agree with you on the spectrum thing. The only issue is that the highest yielding LED grow I've found so far used ISIS-1 panels which are 5 spectrum. LBG pulled 1.27 grams per watt running 6 of them over 24 Master Kush. I am yet to see an 11 or 12 spectrum light hit that production benchmark but maybe I'll get lucky this run

dunit said:

The LED I'm running is 11 spectrum and I'm kinda inclined to agree with you on the spectrum thing. The only issue is that the highest yielding LED grow I've found so far used ISIS-1 panels which are 5 spectrum. LBG pulled 1.27 grams per watt running 6 of them over 24 Master Kush. I am yet to see an 11 or 12 spectrum light hit that production benchmark but maybe I'll get lucky this run

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people are growing too differently with too different lights

the people which have tested such things as 2-4 band lights and then getting a 12 band light always seem to go with the 12s

budlover909 said:

so i been doing a lot of reading and these 12 spectrum panels are bull unles you trying to grow algae and bacteria go read up on wikipedia then follow every source and read thats what i been doing these past several days andof almostevery spectrum i see in these many spetrum panels half only work on bacteria and algae and a couple of the wavelengths are actually emited by other side plasmids so trying to put those in the panel makes zero sense as the plant totally rejects that light anything mo than 290 420 460 630 660 740 looks like its pretty much wasted I made a chart of every plasmid and what wavelengths is absorbed or emitted and crossed of copies or too close to matter stuff and when it gets down to it for land plants those 6 are al you need for a full crop all those other spectrums are almostentirely wasted light carotene is already hit by 460 near one of its peaks so trying to add 50 whatever aint worth it and most other chlorophylls are in algae or bacteria so no sense trying to target those unles you want that stuff growing

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Yep u are correct , I been researching for a long time and I've read tons of papers and the 6 wavelengths that you mentioned are the only ones that are required. Mind you I thought the 420 was supposed to be 425, I may be wrong

maxpesh said:

Yep u are correct , I been researching for a long time and I've read tons of papers and the 6 wavelengths that you mentioned are the only ones that are required. Mind you I thought the 420 was supposed to be 425, I may be wrong

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heres what i gathered so far

chlorophyll a uses between 420-440nm blue and 660-665nm red
chlorophyll b uses 450-470nm blue and 630-645nm red
beta carotene has two peaks at 470nm and 515nm with 470nm being the more reactive peak (460 is close enough)

that only covers visible range we know there are reactive wavelengths in the uv and ir

ir - 720-760nm works with chlorophyll in the pr-pfr reaction
uva at 370nm is a flavoprotein absorption peak for production of flavinoids and terpenoids also works on the blue side of the pr-pfr reaction
uvb at 290-310 forces our favorite plant to produce loads of thc to protect itself from ionizing radiation that can cause dna damage

whats funny is i learned most of this reading about food coloring pigments it had way more detail than any wiki page regarding chlorophyll

Can anyone suggest a decent LED light for under 100 dollars? I don't even know if this is possible, I've found them under 100 but don't know of quality for growing. Want something that can run well during both veg and flowering, but am willing to get separate as needed.

LED's intrigue me, help a poor man out!

Edit: and I'm not growing in a big box, I can keep the lights as close proximity as needed. My grow space is enough for 3-4 plants but no larger. LEDs put out little heat correct? So I wouldn't need to worry about a fancy cooling system would I?

georgeisabamf said:

Can anyone suggest a decent LED light for under 100 dollars? I don't even know if this is possible, I've found them under 100 but don't know of quality for growing. Want something that can run well during both veg and flowering, but am willing to get separate as needed.

LED's intrigue me, help a poor man out!

Edit: and I'm not growing in a big box, I can keep the lights as close proximity as needed. My grow space is enough for 3-4 plants but no larger. LEDs put out little heat correct? So I wouldn't need to worry about a fancy cooling system would I?

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I don't think any LED under $100 would be worth it, but if you are doing micro grows in a PC box then some of those ~$100 UFO (small circular LED) should be the best you can get for that price. No if the LED is worth anything it will have its own cooling fans. But LEDs do put out some heat (probably 20% as much or less than HID of = wattage), so you won't need cooling just for the light, but you may still need to actively exhaust air from the growing area (depending on how large it is). I can run a 395w LED panel in a tent in my room and have the filter vent straight into my room and it doesn't raise my bedroom temp more than 2 degrees in 16hrs

"whats funny is i learned most of this reading about food coloring pigments it had way more detail than any wiki page regarding chlorophyll"

Yeah I thought something like that might happen, do you have the better links for wiki?

So what wattage of LED light should I get for my grow space? I have a basically a 2x2x1 foot grow space to start plants in that I plan on using the LED in. I have at least doubled the size of the box so it is larger, but I want something I can run close to my plants to get them to veg out some. For reference I guess you could say my grow space is maybe 2-3 times the size of a PC case. I know it's hard to shop for LED on such a low budget but it's all I can work with unless i save up for some time.

Being a poor college student sucks ass.

georgeisabamf said:

So what wattage of LED light should I get for my grow space? I have a basically a 2x2x1 foot grow space to start plants in that I plan on using the LED in. I have at least doubled the size of the box so it is larger, but I want something I can run close to my plants to get them to veg out some. For reference I guess you could say my grow space is maybe 2-3 times the size of a PC case. I know it's hard to shop for LED on such a low budget but it's all I can work with unless i save up for some time.

Being a poor college student sucks ass.

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I'd get as much wattage as you can for your $100. And get a part time job, then you can get whatever light you want!

ColoradoLove said:

I'd get as much wattage as you can for your $100. And get a part time job, then you can get whatever light you want!

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I wish I could get a job but my school schedule is odd man. I get a new schedule every month and my class hours are on a 24/7 basis. Meaning I can have class from 9 PM-4 AM the next day. So it's hard to get a job flexible enough with their hours.

Ah bummer man. I was fortunate enough to be able to schedule my classes so I could still work full time at a restaurant. Just paid my last semester out of pocket with no student loans! Im pretty stoked

http://cgi.ebay.com/90-Watt-45x-2W-LED-Grow-Light-Quad-Band-Hydroponic-Lamp-/200599181407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb4a4985f#ht_4110wt_1002

http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Red-Blue-225-LED-Hydroponic-Plant-Grow-Light-Panel-/250788237272?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6424cfd8#ht_2032wt_1141

What about those? Cheap ebay LEDs, but what if I buy multiple of them? (2 or 3) I'm scared to buy the shit LED's solely because I don't want them burning out. Especially if half of them die then it's useless. Anyhow, I need help because I'm only running CFL right now and it isn't cutting it. I want something that puts out little heat and runs smoothly. I feel LED is also the future of growing, and I've seen great things.

Ive heard scary stories regarding Ebay LEDs. I dunno man. I'd look at Blackstars UFOs. They're a known company and definitely at the lower end of the price spectrum. I think they're over $100 but not by much. Wait til you sell your books back in 2 weeks and get one!

If you cant cut a good LED and are straped go with CFL cheap LEDs are not worth the money JMO

ColoradoLove said:

Ive heard scary stories regarding Ebay LEDs. I dunno man. I'd look at Blackstars UFOs. They're a known company and definitely at the lower end of the price spectrum. I think they're over $100 but not by much. Wait til you sell your books back in 2 weeks and get one!

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haha my school doesn't even get books. I shit you not, it might as well not even be considered a real college. Any textbook we get is free but it's written by faculty/teachers at my school.

But I hear ya, I am growing with CFL's now. I want something better during budding mostly and these CFL's haven't given me a lot of success thus far. Maybe I'll invest in something else, the UFO Led's interest me. My local Hydro store has the large ones on display. Though everyone there rags on LED in ANY situation. Haters.

georgeisabamf said:

haha my school doesn't even get books. I shit you not, it might as well not even be considered a real college. Any textbook we get is free but it's written by faculty/teachers at my school.

But I hear ya, I am growing with CFL's now. I want something better during budding mostly and these CFL's haven't given me a lot of success thus far. Maybe I'll invest in something else, the UFO Led's interest me. My local Hydro store has the large ones on display. Though everyone there rags on LED in ANY situation. Haters.

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Cause all they know is what the shitty LEDs can do. You can avoid the losing half your lights to one dead LED if you buy from a decent company, GLH and others (not sure which but at least 1 other big one) build their models so that if 1 LED dies its the only one that goes out. If you can't spend at least a couple hundred on LED then I would just not bother with it at this point (the lights under $200 just aren't that great of an investment yet).

I would aim for a 240w blackstar (although its really only 130-140w). You shouldn't have too much trouble getting one for $250-300 with shipping and all that. Should work as good or better than anything you can get for less than $200 concerning LED. Just be sure that whatever you decide on that it uses 3w diodes, has fans built in, that the lens angles are no greater than 90 degrees (120 is common but too wide/wasteful).

I still recommend GLH above the others because they seem to have the most/best features for $ per true watt upfront without costing much more than the cheaper more basic models such as the UFOs and blackstar*(which usually sits at $2.1-2.2 per watt compared to GLH that is about $2.75-2.9 and some others which go as high as 3 or 4 without as many features)

Features meaning things like: Proper lens angles (not too wide like 120), good diode strength (3w single chip not 3 1w in the same dome or 2w or 1w), finned heat sink, PCB board or not between LEDs and heatsink, more breakers, the bits that keep more than 1 LED from dieing at a time, good cooling fans, warranty, which nm/wavelengths are used and in what ratios, customer service, etc

Yeah use CFL, just make sure to get good strength and ones designed for plants or high output ones if possible, not just based on K rating, k? Once you can afford it (keep saving on top of what ya got!) get a good LED, but in another 6 months your choice will be even easier. Blackstar is cheapest reputable, but you can order straight from China like they do and save some money while losing some customer service. But, as many users have shown, CFL can grow some nice ones! Check out kush groove's sig, since he's within a couple pages of here. GL in the ghetto!

It's interesting especially about the uvb info... care to share a link? Also, 610(?-don't recall) I think has special note, check out U.S. patent 6921182. Thanks for sharing good info

budlover909 said:

heres what i gathered so far

chlorophyll a uses between 420-440nm blue and 660-665nm red
chlorophyll b uses 450-470nm blue and 630-645nm red
beta carotene has two peaks at 470nm and 515nm with 470nm being the more reactive peak (460 is close enough)

that only covers visible range we know there are reactive wavelengths in the uv and ir

ir - 720-760nm works with chlorophyll in the pr-pfr reaction
uva at 370nm is a flavoprotein absorption peak for production of flavinoids and terpenoids also works on the blue side of the pr-pfr reaction
uvb at 290-310 forces our favorite plant to produce loads of thc to protect itself from ionizing radiation that can cause dna damage

whats funny is i learned most of this reading about food coloring pigments it had way more detail than any wiki page regarding chlorophyll

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I want to go on record, g/w should not be used at all unless comparing one grow to another with exact light cycle, etc. We should use g/Wh for a true comparison of energy use vs. results.

meharmon said:

It's interesting especially about the uvb info... care to share a link? Also, 610(?-don't recall) I think has special note, check out U.S. patent 6921182. Thanks for sharing good info

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from what i understand those particular readings happened only because of the testing method they used and more scientific studies done by other universities invalidated that and brought the peak right back to 630-640 different solvents cause different absorption issues i think was the main problem in figuring out which ones were right