Led Users Unite!

BuddJohnson

BuddJohnson

Member
Hi, I'm considering a DIY strip light build for a 4' x 4' using 12 x 4' Samsung F series or Bridgelux EB strips.
Do the LED strip lights burn out often? Do people buy extra strips just in case?
TIA
 
A

Alien87

Member
Anyone know if these are any good? I was about to buy the yehsence 1500w from Amazon at around 150$ but from what I've heard cob's are better, and this one is cheaper at AliExpress, I would get the 1500w model which consumes around 250 actual w
 

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Firstgrow1969

Firstgrow1969

Member
http://leds.hrt.msu.edu/publications/ apologies if this has been posted before. The site gives many good links to LED information.

Heres a good one.
https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/48/4/article-p428.xml
Conclusions
When our data on the effect of supplemental light source during propagation on growth, morphology, and gas exchange of cuttings at the end of propagation are taken together with data collected for flowering plants finished in a common environment, there is no significant difference between HPS lamps and LEDs. Furthermore, we observed no significant differences among LEDs varying in their spectral composition of red and blue light. Therefore, the paucity of both statistically and commercially significant differences or negative effects of LEDs on growth and development during subsequent forcing after transplant further supports the transient nature of the impact of supplemental light quality during propagation of cuttings.
 
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Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Firstgrow1969 said:
http://leds.hrt.msu.edu/publications/ apologies if this has been posted before. The site gives many good links to LED information.

Heres a good one.
https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/48/4/article-p428.xml
Conclusions
When our data on the effect of supplemental light source during propagation on growth, morphology, and gas exchange of cuttings at the end of propagation are taken together with data collected for flowering plants finished in a common environment, there is no significant difference between HPS lamps and LEDs. Furthermore, we observed no significant differences among LEDs varying in their spectral composition of red and blue light. Therefore, the paucity of both statistically and commercially significant differences or negative effects of LEDs on growth and development during subsequent forcing after transplant further supports the transient nature of the impact of supplemental light quality during propagation of cuttings.
Click to expand...
What do you want to say, buddy? HPS/MH light is the same like LED or what?
There are a few good articles but I really don't understand your intension.

The article is only about rooting clones. As long as clones get the same intensity/amount of light(5-10klx or ~75-150μMol/s/m²) the light source really does'nt matters. They difference between 75 and 150μMol/s is also only 1 or 2 days!
There are also ways to speed up rooting times other than light.
Remove most of the nitrogene stored in the leaves and clones root a lot faster. To remove it you only need to spray them a few times with demi water(for 2-3 days, 2-3 times the day) before cutting them. It also makes a difference where you cut them. Cuttings cut near the bottom of the plant root much faster as clones cut from the canopy.(codeword: auxins)
The article is also from 2012. Deepred LEDs reach meanwhile up to 66% efficiency(28% increase) and blue diodes up to 70%(20% increase). That means they deliver 40 respective 75% more light compared to 2012!

The 1st reason we use LED's is their better efficiency. A 600w HPS can be replaced by only 350-400w LED, a 1000w HPS can be replaced by 550-650w LED and to replace a DE gravita you need ~700-800w LED.
The 2nd reason is spectrum tuning. You can use white base diodes combinated with monochromatic LEDs in UV, purple, blue, red, deep- and far-red to "communicate" with the plants and "control" them. Stature, colors, stretch, branching, flowering times and root growth for instance. All this and more can be influenced just by adding different colors to the spectrum.

There is much more to learn about LED's and how to use them properly. It happed a lot until today. Many conmpanies have developed horticulture LED modules in the meantime. Samsung new horti strips are based on coolwhite and deep-red diodes and reach 2,74μMol/J. The most efficient CMH bulbs reach 1,9 and a 600w HPS only 1,3μMol/J.
 

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The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Firstgrow1969 said:
http://leds.hrt.msu.edu/publications/ apologies if this has been posted before. The site gives many good links to LED information.

Heres a good one.
https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/48/4/article-p428.xml
Conclusions
When our data on the effect of supplemental light source during propagation on growth, morphology, and gas exchange of cuttings at the end of propagation are taken together with data collected for flowering plants finished in a common environment, there is no significant difference between HPS lamps and LEDs. Furthermore, we observed no significant differences among LEDs varying in their spectral composition of red and blue light. Therefore, the paucity of both statistically and commercially significant differences or negative effects of LEDs on growth and development during subsequent forcing after transplant further supports the transient nature of the impact of supplemental light quality during propagation of cuttings.
Click to expand...
:roll::spew:
 
Firstgrow1969

Firstgrow1969

Member
Im sharing LED information. The example was only one subject about LEDs on the original link. I see studies, reviews and published papers all sited and sourced in one place.
I dont hold much value in University institutions but studies in agriculture are always informative and contain nuggets of knowledge.
Randomblame said:
What do you want to say, buddy? HPS/MH light is the same like LED or what?
There are a few good articles but I really don't understand your intension.

The article is only about rooting clones. As long as clones get the same intensity/amount of light(5-10klx or ~75-150μMol/s/m²) the light source really does'nt matters. They difference between 75 and 150μMol/s is also only 1 or 2 days!
There are also ways to speed up rooting times other than light.
Remove most of the nitrogene stored in the leaves and clones root a lot faster. To remove it you only need to spray them a few times with demi water(for 2-3 days, 2-3 times the day) before cutting them. It also makes a difference where you cut them. Cuttings cut near the bottom of the plant root much faster as clones cut from the canopy.(codeword: auxins)
The article is also from 2012. Deepred LEDs reach meanwhile up to 66% efficiency(28% increase) and blue diodes up to 70%(20% increase). That means they deliver 40 respective 75% more light compared to 2012!

The 1st reason we use LED's is their better efficiency. A 600w HPS can be replaced by only 350-400w LED, a 1000w HPS can be replaced by 550-650w LED and to replace a DE gravita you need ~700-800w LED.
The 2nd reason is spectrum tuning. You can use white base diodes combinated with monochromatic LEDs in UV, purple, blue, red, deep- and far-red to "communicate" with the plants and "control" them. Stature, colors, stretch, branching, flowering times and root growth for instance. All this and more can be influenced just by adding different colors to the spectrum.

There is much more to learn about LED's and how to use them properly. It happed a lot until today. Many conmpanies have developed horticulture LED modules in the meantime. Samsung new horti strips are based on coolwhite and deep-red diodes and reach 2,74μMol/J. The most efficient CMH bulbs reach 1,9 and a 600w HPS only 1,3μMol/J.
Click to expand...
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Firstgrow1969 said:
Im sharing LED information. The example was only one subject about LEDs on the original link. I see studies, reviews and published papers all sited and sourced in one place.
I dont hold much value in University institutions but studies in agriculture are always informative and contain nuggets of knowledge.
Click to expand...
Ah, okay.. now I underestand.
Yeah, research is important and I for myself always try to stay up to date. I just thought you mean there is no difference with LED and have used especially this research about cuttings as example.
Sorry, my bad!
 
Fawkes420

Fawkes420

Well-Known Member
Need ideas what to do with 12 x 1-footers (EB2), complete with driver?
I have upgraded my lightning and now i have no use for these.
Thinking of some vertically mount giving light sideways.
Hit me with pics and ideas :).
If i'm not completely wrong, i think i have seen some pics earlier but i have forgot where.
Growing in 3x3 tent
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Fawkes420 said:
Need ideas what to do with 12 x 1-footers (EB2), complete with driver?
I have upgraded my lightning and now i have no use for these.
Thinking of some vertically mount giving light sideways.
Hit me with pics and ideas :).
If i'm not completely wrong, i think i have seen some pics earlier but i have forgot where.
Growing in 3x3 tent
Click to expand...
Yeah, strips are perfect for side lights. I would use 1" aluminum c-channels in 2ft. length and mount each 2 strips wired in series to the alli channels.
You would have six 2ft. bars and each bar would need 39v at 350mA(2x 19,5v, at nominal current) and 41v at 700mA(2x 20,5v at max. current). That's 13,65w nominal and around 28,7w at maximum current.

As a driver you could use an HLG-150H-42(A or B) and connect all these 6 bars in parallel. This driver would have 3,55-3,8A which means each strip would run with 590-630mA. That's up to 26w per strip in the best case.
If you think that's too much, you can also use an HLG-80H-42(1,9-2A,~320-335mA per strip) or 100H-42(2,4A,~400mA per strip).

6 bars is not the best fit for a squared area but I would just hang one in each corner and the other two in the middle on two walls. So actually 2x 3pcs in a row on two of 4 walls.
Side lights are a good way to maximize yield per sft. cuz you can grow taller plants without getting larf at the lower nodes.
Google "sun cloak" or search the forum here for a sun cloak thread(hybridway2 should at least have one thread about these system). Its a really efficient grow system cause it allows you to use almost all available height. They use ⅔ of the total watts for side lights and only ⅓ is used from above. Yeah, it sounds strange but the results are outstanding and prove them doing it right.
 
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Fawkes420

Fawkes420

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Yeah, strips are perfect for side lights. I would use 1" aluminum c-channels in 2ft. length and mount each 2 strips wired in series to the alli channels.
You would have six 2ft. bars and each bar would need 39v at 350mA(2x 19,5v, at nominal current) and 41v at 700mA(2x 20,5v at max. current). That's 13,65w nominal and around 28,7w at maximum current.

As a driver you could use an HLG-150H-42(A or B) and connect all these 6 bars in parallel. This driver would have 3,55-3,8A which means each strip would run with 590-630mA. That's up to 26w per strip in the best case.
If you think that's too much, you can also use an HLG-80H-42(1,9-2A,~320-335mA per strip) or 100H-42(2,4A,~400mA per strip).

6 bars is not the best fit for a squared area but I would just hang one in each corner and the other two in the middle on two walls. So actually 2x 3pcs in a row on tow walls.
Side lights are a good way to maximize yield per sft. cuz you can grow taller plants without getting larf at the lower nodes.
Google "sun cloak" or search the forum here for a sun cloak thread(hybridway2 should at least have one thread about these system). Its a really efficient grow system cause it allows you to use almost all available height. They use ⅔ of the total watts for side lights and only ⅓ is used from above. Yeah, it sounds strange but the results are outstanding and prove them doing it right.
Click to expand...
Great! Will check "sun cloak".
I have hlg 150H-20A wired paralell today. Is that driver to small? Have been running that for one year now :)
 
Z

z3rgling

Well-Known Member
Alien87 said:
Anyone know if these are any good? I was about to buy the yehsence 1500w from Amazon at around 150$ but from what I've heard cob's are better, and this one is cheaper at AliExpress, I would get the 1500w model which consumes around 250 actual w
Click to expand...
I have the "1800 watt" version with a different brand stamp. 300 watt actual draw. I paid just under $100 on the bay with free shipping. It is bright as can be. Have used it to veg 4 girls in a 4x4 with excellent results.
 
A

Alien87

Member
z3rgling said:
I have the "1800 watt" version with a different brand stamp. 300 watt actual draw. I paid just under $100 on the bay with free shipping. It is bright as can be. Have used it to veg 4 girls in a 4x4 with excellent results.
Click to expand...
Thats good to hear, do you use them for bloom aswell?
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Fawkes420 said:
Great! Will check "sun cloak".
I have hlg 150H-20A wired paralell today. Is that driver to small? Have been running that for one year now :)
Click to expand...

No, its not a problem. You only need to connect all the 12 other strips in parallel and it would work. With my 2 strip in series bars you would need a driver with twice as much voltage.
But when you add 12 more strips in parallel to your exsisting driver the strips run at a lower wattage. More efficiently but you would stay with o ly 150-165w for the whole tent.
I would order a small extra HLG-80H-20 or 42 (36$) just for the sidelights.
165w for a 3x 3' area is anyway no enough and with an additional HLG-80(90w) you have at least ~255w total.
Rule of thumb says, you need ~30-35w/sft to get 700-800μMol/s/m² PPFD.
With 28,5w you are in the 650μMol/s range. But with lots of low driven strips and a sun cloak like setup thats already enough cuz you can literally use them with no distance. An with only 7,5w each strip you also need no heat-sinks/c-channels. Simply use zip ties to mount them to the tent frame.
 
Fawkes420

Fawkes420

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
No, its not a problem. You only need to connect all the 12 other strips in parallel and it would work. With my 2 strip in series bars you would need a driver with twice as much voltage.
But when you add 12 more strips in parallel to your exsisting driver the strips run at a lower wattage. More efficiently but you would stay with o ly 150-165w for the whole tent.
I would order a small extra HLG-80H-20 or 42 (36$) just for the sidelights.
165w for a 3x 3' area is anyway no enough and with an additional HLG-80(90w) you have at least ~255w total.
Rule of thumb says, you need ~30-35w/sft to get 700-800μMol/s/m² PPFD.
With 28,5w you are in the 650μMol/s range. But with lots of low driven strips and a sun cloak like setup thats already enough cuz you can literally use them with no distance. An with only 7,5w each strip you also need no heat-sinks/c-channels. Simply use zip ties to mount them to the tent frame.
Click to expand...
Yes! I know that i should be at 30-35w/sft.
Maybe i wasn't explaning my future setup that well....
I'm gonna have 15 x 560mm at top driven by hlg-320H-20A giving me 294W total.
Then,,,, i add the old ones on the side driven with hlg 150H-20A.
Sounds ok?
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Alien87 said:
Thats good to hear, do you use them for bloom aswell?
Click to expand...
Wtf! A 1800w light with 330w at the wall, lol! Really?! You can't get an efficient LED fixture for just 100 bucks. Bright as can be, lol! Every shitty HPS bulb is more efficient even the 150w ones. Such blurples reach 1-1,3μMol/J(watt). 300w would be 300-390μMol/s PPF in the best case!
Do yourself a favor and take something with a white spectrum. Quantumboards for instance are two times more efficient(2,5μMol/J) and only one QB (150w) would blow such a crappy china blurple light out of the water cause you get ~375μMol/s PPF. Also the 300w ones called 1800w replacement, lol.
Cheapest diodes, cheapest drivers and all this in a cheap housing and you guys really think such a light can be good?
They veg okay but for flowering on a 4x4' area you need at least two of them, better 3.

4 Quantumboards aka an HLG-550 would have 550w and would produce more usable light like 3 of these 1800w/300w lights. Within the 1st year you'll see also lots of burned out diodes on these cheapos.. That's for sure!
Yepp, QB's are not that cheap because they use quality top bin Samsung diodes but therefor they last ~50.000h.
And the boards itself are BTW fully assembled by Samsung!

You can do what you want, bro! When you want to go the cheap route..it's your money! But one good ol' rule says, buy cheap and you have to pay two times.
With QB's you can get ~1,7g/w regularily, with cheap blurples you'll get 1g/w maybe.That's a fact!
We all have tried them at the beginning. I myself have tried 3 Mars 300 reflector lights 5 years ago but I've sold them 3 weeks later. No need to mention I've lost 150 bucks because of my stupidity...

Today I only make my own LED fixtures (see signature) and my current one has ~2,6μMol/J. Samsungs new horti strips reach 2,74μMol/J efficiency for instance and they should be available soon. Digikey.com or arrow.com are cheap sources for DIY parts.
 
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Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Fawkes420 said:
Yes! I know that i should be at 30-35w/sft.
Maybe i wasn't explaning my future setup that well....
I'm gonna have 15 x 560mm at top driven by hlg-320H-20A giving me 294W total.
Then,,,, i add the old ones on the side driven with hlg 150H-20A.
Sounds ok?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that sounds much better.
 
A

Alien87

Member
Randomblame
the ones I linked are white spectrum cob's though, not purple lights, and I have no idea what QB's are or which qb light to buy for around 4 plants, I tried asking about these lights but I don't think anyone answered, and idk how to make my self one, I wouldn't even know what parts to buy, the only way I see my self making my own light is if there's a good YouTube video on it. Is not that I want to go the cheap way, I'm trying figure out how to get the best quality for the money and still learning. hps gets way too hot imo
 
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