When you are talking your blackstars and you say a 240w and a 500w, how much do they actually draw? If its like what I've seen with Blackstar before, then those lights are really only 120w and 250w. I'm not hating on blackstar, I feel they may be misleading people, but for actual watt draw their lights seem to be as good as most. Ex: there would be a pretty big difference in those pics between 370w of LED and 740w
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Does each of those 12 units actually pull 500w from the wall? Or are they simply called 500w units? Blackstar seems to label them by the sum of the max draw of the LEDS and not what they actually run on (ex: a 3w LED can't run at 3w only about 1.5w)
You have to be certain of what they actuall run on otherwise you might only be getting 3000w of LED instead of 6000w
Well if they pull 250-375w each then you will be charged 3000-4500w every hour so it might cost you as much as $.50 an hour to run the lights? The electric bill should be reasonable as long as you don't go 24/0 and stick to 18/6 or less
On 18/6 I imagine you will pay between 250 and 400 depending on your local rates
bajafox
Well-Known Member
Any idea how much the ISIS-2 400w actually draws? I'm almost set on going with an ISIS-1 and an ISIS-2 to replace my 600w HID this summer. The Spectra's are really nice but way outside of my budget and the ISIS systems seem to be up there in quality with fair prices.
Why the 500s and not the 600s?
http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/lighthouse-blackstar-600w-led-grow-light-2w-cree.html
TKronic
Member
Yes, I have the blackstars that apparently run at half the advertised wattage.
Bro is your going to drop that much money on an operation, I say do it right. Get the panels that irishboy used, check his grow out, its impressive. Just on the fact that "gotham hydroponics" and "lighhouse hydro" are sketchy companies, whose products definitely come straight from china. Its your choice in the end. I went with the cheap solution because I am inexperienced, and broke. However, I have the 500W flowering model, and it is pretty bad ass
honestly, i'd love to make a purchase, but the more i research LEDs, the more questions I have. It seems like the main benefit is less heat, but the energy savings really aren't there. To fill one of my 11 by 11 room, it would take at least six 500-watt blackstars. that's 3,000 watts, though they apparently only draw half of that. still. if you had three 600 watt HPS, wouldn't that be just as good. everyone's talking about using supplemental light with these things. if you need all that, what exactly is the benefit, other than less heat? If I only did one room at 11 by 11, I think my electricity bill would still be really crazy.
longranger
Active Member
The issue of listed watts vs draw has been beaten to death on this thread. The vendors really cannot win. If they list only draw it makes their lights sound feeble even though the actual amount of PAR may be equivalent to an HID that does truly draw 4 or 5x as much current. If they list the total Watts of the diodes they are accused of lying about the power of the light. If they list both many people are just cranky and confused.
Simple truth is that the Wattage rating of diodes is essentially a maximum rating. That is well understood in the diode industry. It just so happens that most have a nominal current draw that calculates to 50 or 60% of the max. It is called nominal because if you bump the current to max most of the extra consumed current is converted to heat--NOT LIGHT. If the PAR generated is efficiently directed at the plants by prisms or reflectors you should have a good result.
The issue of penetration is less straightforward. Theoretically PAR directed at the canopy in a small concentrated footprint will "penetrate" the canopy. Well maybe and maybe not. The canopy is very efficient diffusing light in the first few inches. Another approach is to use a blend of prism angles to allow light to find direct pathways through the canopy without diffusion. I can assure you that the most reputable companies like Stealth and Kessil are evaluating the efficiency of penetration with PAR meters and experimental grows.
Other companies like Lighthouse may not approach their design quite as scientifically but by taking out middlemen and using good diodes they can provide exceptional value. The more precise design of the premim LEDs may give a little better spectrum and penetration but not neccesarily better bang for the buck.
Worst of all are all the panels that are manufactured overseas using crappy inefficient diodes in the wrong spectra. That is a large majority of the generic chinese panels on Ebay including a significant proportion of the panels advertised as 7 bands and above. General rule of thumb is to only trust brick and mortar stores with knowledgable people you can talk to and hopefully references in the form of grow journals. Lots of others have said the same things on this thread but usually in bits and pieces. Hope this clarifies things for some of my fellow growers that get confused by the same questions 1000 times.
Simple truth is that the Wattage rating of diodes is essentially a maximum rating. That is well understood in the diode industry. It just so happens that most have a nominal current draw that calculates to 50 or 60% of the max. It is called nominal because if you bump the current to max most of the extra consumed current is converted to heat--NOT LIGHT. If the PAR generated is efficiently directed at the plants by prisms or reflectors you should have a good result.
The issue of penetration is less straightforward. Theoretically PAR directed at the canopy in a small concentrated footprint will "penetrate" the canopy. Well maybe and maybe not. The canopy is very efficient diffusing light in the first few inches. Another approach is to use a blend of prism angles to allow light to find direct pathways through the canopy without diffusion. I can assure you that the most reputable companies like Stealth and Kessil are evaluating the efficiency of penetration with PAR meters and experimental grows.
Other companies like Lighthouse may not approach their design quite as scientifically but by taking out middlemen and using good diodes they can provide exceptional value. The more precise design of the premim LEDs may give a little better spectrum and penetration but not neccesarily better bang for the buck.
Worst of all are all the panels that are manufactured overseas using crappy inefficient diodes in the wrong spectra. That is a large majority of the generic chinese panels on Ebay including a significant proportion of the panels advertised as 7 bands and above. General rule of thumb is to only trust brick and mortar stores with knowledgable people you can talk to and hopefully references in the form of grow journals. Lots of others have said the same things on this thread but usually in bits and pieces. Hope this clarifies things for some of my fellow growers that get confused by the same questions 1000 times.
surgedup
Active Member
Not too bad man they look really frosty may I ask what type of strain it was and how long did it take did you supplement anything with the grow also what nutes did you use... would like to know gj man looks like some great smoke!!
TKronic
Member
The first pic shows my hindu kush plant. the 3rd and last pic are pictures of a completed blue dream plant. I used jacks classic nutrients on the blue dream. I have since switched from jacks classic to the GH 3 part for the rest of my plants. For the blue dream I can't really give good data on how long it took to flower under LEDs because it was grown under CFLs for most of its life.
Watt for Watt a good LED should grow more than HID. But its hard to say how much because there are so many differen't kinds of LED light with differen't features that make all kinds of differences (wavelengths, 1/2/3/4/5/etc w lights, different angles for lenses, etc) that you can't really make a general statement with them like you can with MH or HPS. You should grow more with LED than HID but theres just know way to know how much more for what company unless you have read a lot of grows with the same light and/or same grower theres just know way except to figure it out by yourself.
I'm choosing to go with Spectra because Mike who designs these grows marijuana himself and says that he has done all the research and testing himself. He figured out which watt lights, with which lens angles, with which wavelengths/nanometers, etc etc work better than Mh/HPS for growing marijuana. Get the good parts from good companies, build a great series of lights that Irishboy and many others have put to amazing use over at 420magazine.com You go with what you think works best for you, but I'm telling you 10 or 12 240w(actual draw) lights would rock your 11x11 spaces with 5 or 6 units each especially if you got light movers. Oh and he has a pretty good gurantee for his units I think its either 3 or 5 years
I know I must come off like a shill, but I really am not one. I've just been so impressed by the many grows with growledhydos lights I highly recommend them http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-49.html
Hudsonvalley82
Well-Known Member
Try more like 6-8 600W HPS per room. (3600W-4800W) I have 1 1000W HPS and I needed to get 2 LEDs to fill in where that isn't reaching in a 6x4 room (im looking to saturate my plants with light - and my room is one fifth the size of your room), in order to do that you need to pump the shit out of your place with HID. The actual draw from 500W models is about 291W. To completely fill the room at maximum saturation, you will need ten, and could probably get away with 8. Thats only 2328W - 2910W. Even if you go with the straight 500W Math you win.
unorthodox
Active Member
hey, i havnt finished reading through the entire thread yet but i will. i have subbed and will tag along with you all and learn a bit before i drop the cash. just 1 question for now: whats a good company to buy LED lights from thats based in europe?
Hudsonvalley82
Well-Known Member
unorthodox
Active Member
I dont want to pay 50+ for shipping if i can get it around the cornor...
660nm420
Active Member
So to everyone who I recommended KEssil to, hold up if you haven't purchased them yet. I ordered a full cycle purple and I got a red in a purple casing which is really screwing up the veg part of my all kessil test grow. They are obviously having problems with product control since 1 of my three purples came as red so i'd give them a 66% so far since only 1 of 3 and I still haven't got a satisfactory response from them so for now I would hold off if you haven't bought yours yet. I'll keep you posted on how they resolve this but I'm leaning toward returning these three and the 2 magentas that are on their way and sink the cash for all five and what I have left into the top of the line Stealth or all blackstars!
Or it could be a reason to buy, maybe if you get a screwed up order you will get a refund or free replacement units! lol Thats a pretty big screw up though, but they do have the most technologically advanced LED grow lights out there with the greatest growing power watt for watt (their lights are what like 30w?) so I'd cut them a little slack
Whats up fellas, just skimmed through most of this thread and I got kind of dizzy. I'm going to be setting up a grow that is 5X5. I will have 4 plants in 10 gallon pots using subcools super soil. The plants will end up being between 3 and 4 feet tall. I was thinking of using leds. So far I have narrowed it down to:
4-240W Blackstars-$1200
2-357 Magnums-$1400
2-500W Blackstars-$1200
Any opinions or suggestions would be very helpfull. I want to stay in that price range.
4-240W Blackstars-$1200
2-357 Magnums-$1400
2-500W Blackstars-$1200
Any opinions or suggestions would be very helpfull. I want to stay in that price range.
kush groove
Active Member
THIS GUYS ON TO SOMETHING.....
All the damn lights are made in china blackstars are the cheapest lights on the market that are guaranteed to work....end of story
no one is growing in controlled environments so we are all gonna get differents resullts......everyone who grows hps doesnt have huge massive buds.....theres just way too many other variables that have to be taken into consideration before you start comparing closet grows against closet grows.....
the redstars, oops i mean 357 magnums are just way to expensive....and it isnt even branded...lol
just go with the blackstars and general hydroponics nutrients or botanicare.......everything else is just tender love and care