LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

Oh man! go to his profile and add to ignore list! you dont have to see all his BS! I didnt know you could do that. It says post not visible because he's on your ignore list... much less to scroll through on every page! lol sweet!

okthanks2 said:

I have yet to see good results posted. I've searched this whole thread and do not see one photo of an actual quality looking bud that makes this whole PAR T5 idea even remotely convincing that it is better than using only cheap daylight bulb. The only buds that look nice are Calrt's who vegged under a 600w MH. There are just not even close to enough lumens in a T5 bulb to provide enough energy for plants to flower properly.

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You clearly missed the videos I posted on the last page

Lucius Vorenus said:

You clearly missed the videos I posted on the last page

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well he says that carlt's got the best buds... that were vegged under a 600wMH. irrelevent because vegging doesnt make those nice looking buds... note he flowered under PAR t5's and a HPS to compare results, and I appreciate the scientific input from Carlt.

But Im done with that idiot, I dont care if he cures cancer he's proven himself unworthy of my time anymore. I feel dumber for having taken so much time replying to his immaturity in the first place...
ignore list

anyway lucius, I saw yer buds... nice! but how many total bulbs again? just curious cuz those are pretty tall for indoor, but have really nice lower bud development...sidelighting?

edit... saw another vid of yours and your setup, no sidelights... love it, you're getting nice buds downlow at 2ft+ from the bulbs! one of those tops looks like an artichoke lol, all them fingers just reaching for the heavens! nice

okthanks:
Just because I felt a little personally indicated in your posts and exuding positivity is part and parcel to my being, pm me a very specific question and I will do my best to assist you. I can assure you that I have had no problem confirming the indications of the research reading I've undertaken using PAR specific t5 bulbs. Things like yield and quality have more to do with container size (soil) reservoir size (-ponics) and nutes +biota than light given certain ideals are met. You think you got a NL strain? (or know I mean no disrespect) Most likely its been grown under HPS for decades and chances are you have a pheno which prefers something close. What are you trying to do with it? "Get better results" -can be relative, but I'm even willing to talk it through with ya, just play nice please. Thanks for your time,
-MPP
p.s. general offer open to anyone, my experience will not be our limitation as the vastness of the web is open to us

WHY THE FUCK CANT PEOPLE GET ALONG

look i have read this entire thread like 4 times it is very usefull it has a bunch of indepth information on the bulbs and different combonations you can use NOWHERE in the thread does it say these are better than these ect ect

people are here to SHARE there experaments with eachouther and to get help with chooseing par lights IF they choose to use them

i have sat here and read all the stupidity not saying anything and not boosting egos by replying this thread has gone to shyt it was once a good information place now its rittled with bullshyt IMO everyone needs to get off the computer go smoke your self retarded and just stop being a dush if the person that keeps saying negative things is makeing you mad my advice is LEAVE IT ALONE DONT POST BACK posting back to the stupidity will only cause more stupidity to come along thus taking up more room on the thread

now i know someone is gonna have something bad to say abiut this but his is what you should do instead of posting back some dumbass shyt about me SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DONT WASTE YOR TIME the energy you spend typing replies to me is useless energy used cuz im not going to boost your ego by answering you im jst gonna read it and laugh it off

P.S to thoes who are trying to solve this problem i thank you

pedro420 said:

WHY THE FUCK CANT PEOPLE GET ALONG

look i have read this entire thread like 4 times it is very usefull it has a bunch of indepth information on the bulbs and different combonations you can use NOWHERE in the thread does it say these are better than these ect ect

people are here to SHARE there experaments with eachouther and to get help with chooseing par lights IF they choose to use them

i have sat here and read all the stupidity not saying anything and not boosting egos by replying this thread has gone to shyt it was once a good information place now its rittled with bullshyt IMO everyone needs to get off the computer go smoke your self retarded and just stop being a dush if the person that keeps saying negative things is makeing you mad my advice is LEAVE IT ALONE DONT POST BACK posting back to the stupidity will only cause more stupidity to come along thus taking up more room on the thread

now i know someone is gonna have something bad to say abiut this but his is what you should do instead of posting back some dumbass shyt about me SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DONT WASTE YOR TIME the energy you spend typing replies to me is useless energy used cuz im not going to boost your ego by answering you im jst gonna read it and laugh it off

P.S to thoes who are trying to solve this problem i thank you

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Very very very very well spoken sir! Can't answer your question as to what the fuck is wrong with people!

Undercover Cop said:

Oh man! go to his profile and add to ignore list! you dont have to see all his BS! I didnt know you could do that. It says post not visible because he's on your ignore list... much less to scroll through on every page! lol sweet!

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Hallelujah!!!

Just what I was looking for!

Sorry to run on with short posts all, but when you go switching light sources, remember that you are causing significant stress to your little leafy friends. Different nm's of EMrad have different energy levels associated with them and the best results have been seen with a more constant exposure (cut or seed to harvest). Drastic changes in the light type will disrupt circadian rhythms more than even dark times alone would and stress (like in humans) is not a force to under-reckon.
My last 2 cents for tonight, the lady's got me doing all the responsible stuff around the house 2night.
PEace,
MPP

Lucius Vorenus said:

As a guy who current
Y is begging my plants under 4 8 bulb batboys and 2 4 bulb generic T5's I can say you are all probably over thinking it.

I have yet to see growth from anyone like what can be achieved just simply begging und 6500 grow bulbs from Quantum and vegging under ALL Bloom bulbs which are 3000k and also from Quantum. $10 each.

I will be running more experiments as well soon mixing in some Red Suns and Fiji Purples in flower.

Check out this vid. All Bloom Bulbs 3000k. No clue of spectrum but cheap. Also a C02 burner in room and solid growing methods methods using a sealed room.

[video=youtube;gyG_SfvHCHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyG_SfvHCHE&sns=em[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyG_SfvHCHE&sns=em

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Very nice post Lucius!

Those are some great looking bud filled plants you have there!

Do you have a link to your grow thread? I'd like to check it out and probably others too.

+Rep on the sweet grow room!

JUP-1360 Magnesium arsenate phosphor
Mg5As2O11: Mn Red 660nm

Available after searcing phosphor 660nm on yahoo. Now we know what ingredient our bulbs need, yes? Sorry if this was covered and I missed it. From second result in that yahoo search, made-in-china.com

So, um, anyone have the balls to contact mfr to see who has it and who doesn't? And maybe who makes reliable inexpensive bulbs already and might want to, ahem *cough* expand their prospective market? Just a thought . . .

Edit: searching Magnesium arsenate phosphor one of the first results mentions that it's 20x more expensive than most other phosphors. Methinks this explains the Fiji's price.

aoyanagi said:

JUP-1360 Magnesium arsenate phosphor
Mg5As2O11: Mn Red 660nm

Available after searcing phosphor 660nm on yahoo. Now we know what ingredient our bulbs need, yes? Sorry if this was covered and I missed it. From second result in that yahoo search, made-in-china.com

So, um, anyone have the balls to contact mfr to see who has it and who doesn't? And maybe who makes reliable inexpensive bulbs already and might want to, ahem *cough* expand their prospective market? Just a thought . . .

Edit: searching Magnesium arsenate phosphor one of the first results mentions that it's 20x more expensive than most other phosphors. Methinks this explains the Fiji's price.

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Welcome, aoyanagi.

I believe that information comes from the following site: http://www.itgcchem.com/phosphor/phosphor.htm - correct? It's great to have you along. We'll both be waiting to hear from the experts on those phosphor blends!

...

Today, the pr0fesseur's thread taught me about ignore lists and how to use them. This thread is always a good read.



Happy Growing.

aoyanagi said:

JUP-1360 Magnesium arsenate phosphor
Mg5As2O11: Mn Red 660nm

Available after searcing phosphor 660nm on yahoo. Now we know what ingredient our bulbs need, yes? Sorry if this was covered and I missed it. From second result in that yahoo search, made-in-china.com

So, um, anyone have the balls to contact mfr to see who has it and who doesn't? And maybe who makes reliable inexpensive bulbs already and might want to, ahem *cough* expand their prospective market? Just a thought . . .

Edit: searching Magnesium arsenate phosphor one of the first results mentions that it's 20x more expensive than most other phosphors. Methinks this explains the Fiji's price.

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Yup, and the majority of specialty T5 tubes are for coral/saltwater setups where red is much less important to marine life especially at any depth, they dont have much reason to research/develop/produce the deeper red tubes that we're missing. Blue is a dime a dozen, its the good solid red bulb that is like gold, that can really fill in a full spectrum fixture.

Ideally (my opinion is) if T5 tubes were made more like LED's with single individual spikes of output at our choice of wavelengths, a 6 bulb fixture with 4 tubes (two blues/two reds) to hit each of the 4 peaks of chlorophyll A+B ... with two other wide spectrum tubes like some 6500k, redwave or plantgrows to cover the phycoeyrthrin, phycocyanin and beta carotine, in the green/yellow/orange ranges between the red/blue peaks, would provide an optimal blend and would MORE than compete with the HID eqivalent (two 150w HPS spaced about 2ft apart = 300w vs 326w 6bulb T5) Ive used two 150's before, for several years infact. The response and bushiness I saw when I ran my plants under a single 4tube (216w) fixture for two weeks during trans to flower -tight nodes and minimal stretch- was much improved over the 300w of HPS I had before (using the same shitty mexican sativa genetics). I still say watt for watt, T5's compete with HID. Is it the cheapest? hell no, but the extra cost hurts less than the extra heat and issues that come with HID's. Again today, my AC came on lol. 87+outside

Undercover Cop said:

Ideally (my opinion is) if T5 tubes were made more like LED's with single individual spikes of output at our choice of wavelengths, a 6 bulb fixture with 4 tubes (two blues/two reds) to hit each of the 4 peaks of chlorophyll A+B ... with two other wide spectrum tubes like some 6500k, redwave or plantgrows to cover the phycoeyrthrin, phycocyanin and beta carotine, in the green/yellow/orange ranges between the red/blue peaks, would provide an optimal blend and would MORE than compete with the HID eqivalent

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..
Yo bro, got nothin but love for ya but check this from the wiki on phycocyanin:
"Phycocyanins are found in Cyanobacteria (previously called blue-green algae)."

Doesn't mean you shouldn't target for those, just the graph that im pretty sure we both have seen gives a lot of significance to something that may not even be that useful to higher plants.
Analyze my posted pic of the sunlight radiance. Many studies (im happy to post another time) have associated "sun emulating" bulb spectrums with positive results, including UV emissions (selective spectrum studies have shown UV linked to essential oil/terpenoid production) the far red are important as I said in an earlier post because their ratio to PAR light is actually a driver for generative genetic expression (if it doesn't make sense google it ((( no seriously, I did after posting and found this, looks like a good read---going into the archive for a sleepless night http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC159944/pdf/020953.pdf )))). Yo got the right idea methinks with the multi single-ish spectrum peak bulbs to dial in a balanced, hopefully blue heavy emission.
Just a brain fart on stunting:
Blue light, via cryptochrome is known for initiation of positive phototropism in plants. If you want your plant to stretch, move your blue light away. Get it? Got it? Good. You can even do some crazy LST stuff with blue light, did I give any of you ideas yet?
Word.
MPP
p.s. you do know you can run blue light at night right? Just make sure its pure... if only we knew of a wavelength specific efficient (ultra?) light source...naw not on this thread... (just teasing, we all love a little semantic play) I keep looking at those combo-light aquarium hoods. HID (despite my oaths against it- more for safety and conservation than for moral objections, its not a superiority game y'all) + t5 + LED moonlights? excuse me while I change my pants

Good catch I dont think that belongs in my mj lol. Just wanted to show that there is more to plant reproduction than chlorophyll A/B. Good food for thought. Thats why some (myself included) use the coral waves to help initiate flowering due to the far red's role in triggering that response. Yup, was going from that same graph, geared toward aquarists. But it just reinforces that there is more to it than the 2red/2blue peaks to worry about, and you shouldnt leave out the rest of the light... even though your garden wont look quite so cool anymore like the leds do

Undercover Cop said:

Good catch I dont think that belongs in my mj lol. Just wanted to show that there is more to plant reproduction than chlorophyll A/B. Good food for thought. Thats why some (myself included) use the coral waves to help initiate flowering due to the far red's role in triggering that response.
...
But it just reinforces that there is more to it than the 2red/2blue peaks to worry about, and you shouldnt leave out the rest of the light... even though your garden wont look quite so cool anymore like the leds do

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yo dawg coral waves are legit for blue spec, same companies super blue is going into testing later. My thoughts on that graph:
Perfect example of PAR. PAR is a scientific concept, not a strain/plant/species/genus/domain specific requirement set. Do what gardeners-philosophers have done for millenia-- got a foreign plant? emulate home environment.
RE: the idea of balanced spec instead of hitting peaks
Ive found study after study that correlate "poor-quality" light with how shall we say...undesirable or unpredictable morphisms. Take from that what you like but it stands to reason to me (and forgive me PLEASE for repeating myself) that providing full spectrum--emulate the graph should get you consistent terrestrial results, despite your effective subterranean environment.

-MPP

p.s. I want to point out that today was one of the more painful days of my life and I totally kept my cool. Not consistent with my internet history/rep or whatever so big ups to the new meds.

Also, the reason why you won't find aquarium market bulbs with the far red phosphors, aside from the fact that they are expensive as all hell:
(that sun graph prevails again)
Why is the ocean water blue? what does that tell you about its properties of absorption? Damn corals never get the red lovin. Enter low kelvin CFLs i guess, or LEDs if you got the moolah or the soldering craft. Been talking to an induction lighting company, anyone else on the same path? these guys use a 13 phosphor blend to target PAR peaks.....
Thanks for the welcome btw undercover, first one on RIU to do so
-MPP

Has anyone else heard of the Wavepoint ULTRA GROWTH WAVE ??? Aoyanagi pointed me to their website, where is says COMING SOON. then in other brand literature from them, they refer to it as the ULTRA COLA model # 01084... waiting to see a SPD for that bulb, sounds interesting, possibly a 10k... or a fiji clone w/ a graph we can see finally red sun replacement ??? hmmm




whats wrong w/ this graph?

lol, seems abit "off" to me

dude I saw that on their site.... (the ultras)
have you emailed them yet?
I had a couple beers and I don't think I should for a while at least.
That graph is interesting ((((perhaps a rearrangment of light waves to show some kind of particular molecular effect? as the sun graph shows, there is kind of a banding of light which has certain absorption properties, the graph I'm looking for ties it all together)))), let me try to find the one my PAR-prof (not the prof here AFAIK) showed me...
(this isn't it but holy crap does it look fun, wish I didn't have to pay to find out how useful it is but maybe worth it even if mostly bust)
http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_49&products_id=398

(damn this is fun too)
"Electromagnetic radiation is often described by its frequency—the number of oscillations of the perpendicular electric and magnetic fields per second—expressed in hertz.Radio frequency radiation is usually measured in kilohertz, megahertz, or gigahertz; this is why radio dials are commonly labeled with kHz, MHz, and GHz. Light is electromagnetic radiation that is even higher in frequency, and has frequencies in the range of tens (infrared) to thousands (ultraviolet) of terahertz." (wiki on EMrad)
so our blue/low nm has more energy in it if the "light output" in photons is the same. Booya, blue light is the more efficient transfer for t5, since you are starting with UV from the internal plasma anyways.
Sorry if this is 100% greek, I'm beyond translating at this point.
MPP
p.s. no luck on the prof graph, i know its in the txtbook, maybe its copyright protected and not on net? will see

pedro420 said:

i have sat here and read all the stupidity not saying anything and not boosting egos by replying this thread has gone to shyt it was once a good information place now its rittled with bullshyt

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I was starting to get a negative feeling I was having trouble putting my finger on, I hope my excessive posting has alleviated some of the ego-biased posting ratio we all experienced.
Peace and love