Now I know why so few people will follow this thread or pipe up.... I read this thread from start to finish, I know what you are testing, point is regardless if the plants grow 10 feet tall, if they yield crap then the lights are crap for the use of flowering mj.... I have no hopes or dreams that you are gonna get 10oz a plant, but curious as to what the yield actually is. if your yield averages .75-1oz from each plant then I find the lights to be very probable, being you were testing for not harvest but growth and finishing of the plant... the only true way to know if they flower correctly is to see the end result. If you dont agree with that, then maybe you need to go back to school, as good growth with little yield means nothing as this is a forum and testing grounds for cultivation of mj not roses.I expect to harvest in 5 more weeks... again this isnt about total weight.. as its 2 different strands i have NEVER grown... total organic grow trying to eliminate growth factors and just analyze T5 statistics.. you have to understand that when you are doing research your trying to prove ONE hypothesis only mine is t5 ability not weight. weight is TRUELY determined by strain and growing ability... anyone who says otherwise has no concept of the scientific method and needs to go back to school.. you also have to understand this is the FIRST documented T5 grow in this method..... it takes years of documentation to prove a theory... so one grow will not be enough... It is up to the followers of this thread to continue and vary/replicate my research.... I have a limited budget, and a small area to test this... others may have different combinations of setups which will add to the total exploration of this method. I urge others to use truth and research to debunk the old hid is better mentality!
Alright REV and and HAS, I totally see what you guys are getting at. I volunteer in a dispensary and I can tell you that my highest quality meds go out the door the fastest and that my lowest quality meds sit of the shelf. While I am slightly confused by pr0f's latest post he certainly makes valid points. Just looking at that post (and yes I have read the entire thread as well), it looks like pr0f is saying that he wants to analyze the t5's "ability" to produce higher quality within any given strain. Now, as pr0f is using the scientific method and this is just his first trial, we will have to be patient to see the final result. A strain analysis should be performed after harvest/curing to determine t5's performance and ability to produce higher cannabanoid levels than we might otherwise achieve. Or maybe after analysis we will find the ratio of THC to CBD is closer than it might otherwise be, or vice versa, thereby indicating what kind of attributes that we look for in our medicine are best met by one lighting method or another.Now I know why so few people will follow this thread or pipe up.... I read this thread from start to finish, I know what you are testing, point is regardless if the plants grow 10 feet tall, if they yield crap then the lights are crap for the use of flowering mj.... I have no hopes or dreams that you are gonna get 10oz a plant, but curious as to what the yield actually is. if your yield averages .75-1oz from each plant then I find the lights to be very probable, being you were testing for not harvest but growth and finishing of the plant... the only true way to know if they flower correctly is to see the end result. If you dont agree with that, then maybe you need to go back to school, as good growth with little yield means nothing as this is a forum and testing grounds for cultivation of mj not roses.
I expect to harvest in 5 more weeks... again this isnt about total weight.. as its 2 different strands i have NEVER grown... total organic grow trying to eliminate growth factors and just analyze T5 statistics.. you have to understand that when you are doing research your trying to prove ONE hypothesis only mine is t5 ability not weight. weight is TRUELY determined by strain and growing ability... anyone who says otherwise has no concept of the scientific method and needs to go back to school.. you also have to understand this is the FIRST documented T5 grow in this method..... it takes years of documentation to prove a theory... so one grow will not be enough... It is up to the followers of this thread to continue and vary/replicate my research.... I have a limited budget, and a small area to test this... others may have different combinations of setups which will add to the total exploration of this method. I urge others to use truth and research to debunk the old hid is better mentality!
You do realize i have a journal that answers all your questions by clearly stating my ENTIRE setup... This thread if you started @ the begining and read that I also have mentioned CLEARLY what yield i am expecting is "0" this would not be a thread for those interested in yield.If you showed more picture updates weekly. people would probably stop asking about yield over and over. If you stated what strains you are working with and if they are more sativa dominant or indica dominant and how many weeks your strains take from start to finish. People might actually use their own brain power to compare to their own and estimate what you might be getting I actually want to see pics too.I'm anxious to know myself how it's going.
This is the exact point one WOULD make given he read the entire thread Thanks for your post... it shows people are absorbing not just reading the latest couple of posts!Alright REV and and HAS, I totally see what you guys are getting at. I volunteer in a dispensary and I can tell you that my highest quality meds go out the door the fastest and that my lowest quality meds sit of the shelf. While I am slightly confused by pr0f's latest post he certainly makes valid points. Just looking at that post (and yes I have read the entire thread as well), it looks like pr0f is saying that he wants to analyze the t5's "ability" to produce higher quality within any given strain. Now, as pr0f is using the scientific method and this is just his first trial, we will have to be patient to see the final result. A strain analysis should be performed after harvest/curing to determine t5's performance and ability to produce higher cannabanoid levels than we might otherwise achieve. Or maybe after analysis we will find the ratio of THC to CBD is closer than it might otherwise be, or vice versa, thereby indicating what kind of attributes that we look for in our medicine are best met by one lighting method or another.
It's very plain to see that we all want to produce the very highest quality herb with the least amount of pain an effort-- that just intrinsically makes sense. Looking at the pics of pr0f's grow so far it's pretty clear that flower development certainly isn't lacking-- those are some nice looking colas. From having read through the thread it makes intuitive sense that quality would only be augmented by providing the plants within very defined spectrums of light that have been shown to enhance growth. As far as degradation of quality as a result of spectrum restriction (which is basically what you said, REV, in your latest post), I haven't done the research myself, but that phenomenon just doesn't make intuitive sense to me.
I came to this community for the technical threads-- this is the best thread I have seen on lighting. Pr0f's very fastidious approach and method has only served to provide the rest of us an opportunity to observe his trial without risk of financial loss-- thanks pr0f for going out on that limb. I came to this thread because I have had the opportunity doing what I do to see just how much fools gold is actually out there in the mmj world, I want to explore new cultivation techniques to produce the absolute highest quality medicine for my patients. The game changer came for me when I found out that my big sis, at the age of 36, was just diagnosed with an aggressive and hereditary form of colon cancer. This thread holds personal value for me for that reason.
I am similar to pr0f in terms of being a real student of the game-- admittedly I just started actually doing my homework. I have my indoor finishing right now and then I will have to concentrate on my outdoor, but I plan on joining in to test the efficacy of this lighting method. I guess I am somewhat fortunate in that I do and will continue to have the means to experiment. I am planning on doing rdwc/scrog/T5. My research has got me to this setup. I wish I had the logistical resources to make this happen right now, but I have already committed a lot of resources to the outdoor, so it's gonna be a few moe month before I can go full bore on my personal experiment, but I really hope some of theother folks that have been following this thread start performing their own tests.
I count myself as lucky that we have guys here like pr0f and uncle ben that put in the time to do the research, so I kind of feel duty bound to that effort to reciprocate and put in a little effort of my own. I know that together we can share enough knowledge to raise the level of the entire game. Sure, if quality goes up overall and the market gets flooded with this product it will drive down prices, but let's face it boys and girls-- if you're trying to do this to get rich you're really no different than the fat cats that work for big Pharma (well maybe just a little given that when you become a CEO or an exec for a major pharmaceutical firm you don't have a huge target on your back for the feds to point at, and let's now even go into the whole cartel thing...)
These bulbs are made mostly in germany ! ans switzerland i think.... uvl is made here though.. you just go the the manufacturers sites the have vendors world wide! remember there are more serious aquariums than pot growers in the world besides alot of the bulbs you can even find on ebay!Curious as well, my 400w might be creating too much heat for my grow box, its either spend another 100-200 and hopefully make it okay temp wise or cut my losses now/sell everything and get a 6-8bulb T5 but then sourcing the bulbs becomes a real problem.. My country really doesn't have the variety that USA does(T5 bulb wise)..
You do realize i have a journal that answers all your questions by clearly stating my ENTIRE setup... This thread if you started @ the begining and read that I also have mentioned CLEARLY what yield i am expecting is "0" this would not be a thread for those interested in yield.
IF your interested in learning about how light affects plants, with an untested method, using a new technique, and helping others learn... than your in the right place...
You cant expect results that's not the scientific method... You expect to fail miserably! and thats the POINT!
I have made no claims as to any yeild expectations..i really dont even care about the plants.. its about the lights!!
PLants are fed organic nutes once a week no ph needed thats it... water....
strains have been stated before
if its 5 weeks in and 5 weeks to go ... do the math...
lastly i think if people READ threads before asking questions they would not have to ask these questions in the pirst place.. i update once a week...
I have a life too you know!
Did you throw this together during lunch break?Thoughts?
I know they are used for cloning, I am talking about flowering a sea of green with them though. Nice to see support for T5 users in a T5 thread..wow. Why are they "not a good platform", its not hard to stick planks of wood under your try and raise/lower it as needed.Shelves have been used for years... in cloning.. ive seen rooms with thousands of clones on shelves... with t5 above them... thing is you MUST adjust your lights as the plants grow.. and shelves are not a good platform to do any serious growing
Hey man, I've been interested in T5 for a while. How is the heat output? Do you think you could make your setup shorter and keep temps running nicely?
My ideal setup would be T5s and a short, short sea of green, and the whole "shelf" being 2 feet. Do you think thats viable? The goal one day would be stackign 3-4 shelves high.
Thanks for this thread, I'd love to see more work done with T5s, hopefully soon you guys will see my very own T5 "shelf" journal. I think they hold alot of potential. To me their biggest value seems to be how close you can take them to the canopy. So in my ideal world, I'd keep that canopy as short as possible so every single plant gets maximum light penetration top to bottom. Of course this would hurt yields (very very short plants) but I'd hope to make up for it by stacking these shelves vertically. I also want to and will experiment with side lighting, basically engulfing the entire plant in T5 light. I like its low profile, flexibility, and ability to get right in close to the canopy. Heat is my main worry, I know they get hot (I believe they run at 100f?) but until I try them I guess I cant know HOW hot.
Once again have to agree with the pr0f-- this time concerning the shelf idea. However, I am happy to report that you are not going to have heat issues. We veg all of our mothers using t5's, and when my patients ask me about heat I turn the fixture towards them and hold the bulb with my bare hand (yes I make sure to clean the bulb) for SEVERAL seconds. This very ability is what initially intrigued about T5's, and then it all went from there are for so many different reasons I am such a hardcore advocate for T5's now. After my outdoor finishes I am going to build out a lab in my house and do 4'x4' scrog in rdwc, and I intend on using a 16-bulb fixture for each one. I have yet to do the actual math on the lights, but just a rough estimate I would say 864w of T5 @ 96lumens/watt roughly 2in. away from my canopy will give me light intensity on the order of 1600W of HPS @ 2ft. Yeah, it will be damn expensive (about $800), but have you ever seen someone pack 1600w into that small of an area? Oh yeah, I will be doing the side lighting as well. I mean, hell, I don't want much- just colas the size of baby arms all the was to the base on my plants!
16 lights though homie!!!
Hey 2012!!!So do you think its just not a viable idea? Which part specifically I'm curious about. Plants veg/clone fine in shelf lit T5 systems. I think its easy to get the proximity of the bulbs to plants dialed down easily through flowering. I'm not sure what part you guys think isn't viable about it.
I'm not expecting 400w of T5 to rival 400w of HPS if thats what people think, I know it wont. And to be honest i'm inexperienced so I'm genuinetely curious. To me in my head it seems like this awesome idea, granted it uses a ton of electricity (imagine even 3 shelves at 400w of T5 power). But what I like is that 400w is spread nicely across 2x4 feet, and you have say 3 of those shelves.
Do bud plants not respond well to being grown exceptionally short? I dont mind very low yielding plants (3-10g per plant) but I'd be growing like 100 of them, so as long as the quality is there I'm happy. I'd hope that 3x400w T5 shelves could consistently pull over a pound of chronic, but I could be wrong here as alot of this is speculation in my inexperienced head. Lemme know what you guys think.
I think the hardest part will be keeping plants short. I know you can LST or scrog, but what I'm thinking is just taking very short clones and flowering very early. I'd like to keep the entire plants height under a foot.
If its possible to keep plants under a foot, in pots no taller then 3-4", how much vertical height do you guys think I'd need each shelf to be? I figure I need at least 2" or so above the lights, if not 4" to let them vent out a bit. And about 2-3" above canopy. And give thickness of a low profile fixture about 2-3" as well.
So pot (4") + plant (12") + air (2") + fixture (3") + air (4") = 25".