LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
- Start date
mipainpatient
Active Member
It is my understanding that the quoted life would be if you had the bulb in a VHO fixture, which is basically an overdriven t5 setup with improved ballasts etc, and so the VHO bulbs also have improved electrodes
the takeaway:
VHO bulbs should outlast normal bulbs in an HO fixture, so definitely shouldn't have to replace these first (Red Sun manufacture issues notwithstanding)
my $.02
MPP
edit:
also after you "conclude" that the bulb life has ended---assuming no catastrophic failure occurs, life's familiar clause---you could anticipiate the depreciated output of the bulb (you could totally use a light meter to gauge this, just note the initial "lumens" or however the meter reads, and periodically measure until it has dropped to a % of the original that you don't like) and have another unit, maybe smaller than your veg/flower unit, where you can repurpose them to grow food indoors. I'm in a cold climate and have tomatoes fruiting under 1 single 4 foot 6500K generic and a bunch of lettuce doing GREAT under the tiny bit of light that bulb puts out, so imagine what a whole PAR setup dedicated to food would put out. And actually if you do the math on the shorter turnover for certain foods (salad greens, beans, peas, etc) vs the store cost (especially organics) you should be saving almost as much money if not more than you do on producing your own medicine. So in that respect I think t5 has some real potential for the home-based self-producer, just try not to move the bulbs around too much, knowing the electrode-end glue problems.
Also lucius was talking about comboing 6500Ks with 2700Ks
I've heard that lumen readings between a 2700K and a 6500K come out higher than between (2) 2700Ks or (2) 6500Ks
and anyone perusing the thread might appreciate the reminder:
Lighting is just part of the equation bros&gals, you need to dial in the rest of your grow too. Yield etc, is easily tweaked with factors like CO2 & soil aeration and should be considered as a variable of its own right, only partially linked to light. I think I already posted the flux density paper but if not call me out and I will.
Theoretically, if you meet those flux numbers you should be able to call yield covered from the perspective of light. So your t5 PAR experience is about turning that "flux number" from an arbitrary Kelvin temperature tag for phosphorescence and its human visual results to a range called "good quality light" in academic papers, where within the white light present, ratios of blue wavelengths to red and infrared are considered as they all play a roll in coaxing the plant to present the morphologies that it does in its natural environment to you in your artificial environment because you desire those delicious and medicinal and nutritious (seeds for omega3/6's) morphologies.
But if you want to start with the equation for photosynthesis, light is not a reactant or product, it is an energy source, like heat. If you don't have your CO2 locked in, you don't care about yield. Period. Granted expecting a pound out of a gallon sized container is probably a stretch even at ideal temperature/water/light/CO2/nutrient/pruning/vegtime/flower conditions/stress regimin so stay realistic please (and don't tell me you can do it with a 1gall netpot because that ress is sure as hell going to be bigger than 1gall).
mipainpatient
Active Member
when you change the bulb, do you grab the cap or the glass?
edit:
before ya jump on me for blaming the recipient of a defective product, a scenario I've lived out time and again in other realms, it could totally be the result of shipping&handling too, making the unit unstable enough to reduce the working life (your driving unit is of course part of the equation, those little parts under the cover/your diy setup do wear out & burn out with use & abuse) Anyone tried taking up their frustrations with the shipping company alone or in pair with the sender and see if you can get some free shipping action for future purchases, if it is deserved? I ask because from my customer service days, most reps are happy as hell to right an email instead of having to comp you themselves
edit:
before ya jump on me for blaming the recipient of a defective product, a scenario I've lived out time and again in other realms, it could totally be the result of shipping&handling too, making the unit unstable enough to reduce the working life (your driving unit is of course part of the equation, those little parts under the cover/your diy setup do wear out & burn out with use & abuse) Anyone tried taking up their frustrations with the shipping company alone or in pair with the sender and see if you can get some free shipping action for future purchases, if it is deserved? I ask because from my customer service days, most reps are happy as hell to right an email instead of having to comp you themselves
Undercover Cop
Active Member
I think its time for a pic update before I chop chop chop 
So Im still waiting on my latest T5 bulbs (replacement AquaMedic PlantGrow, 2 AquaticLife Roseates, 4 FloraSuns, and 4 RedSuns---backordered) So im waiting until I get them to re-configure my veg/flower lighting. Im planning to get one more 4 bulb panel which will go in the veg box and with the single bulb/reflector I bought today for the side, I will have 5 bulbs for Veg. Then I will move the 8bulb fixture from the veg box to the flower box, with 8 on top and the two 4bulb panels I already have on the sides, Ill have 16 total bulbs taking up the left 2/3 of the box, then the 400wHPS will run on the far right 2feet.
I had 6 mexican bagseeds that I had 12/12 from seedling, 4 of which have already shown their balls and were pulled. One of the two left looks very short and squatty and may be an oddball indica seed. But they're both healthy and thriving under the t5 12/12.
The 4 kindbud seedlings are doing well, the AutoHobbit is actually growing the fastest and is already growing sidebranches. The BlueCheese is labeled with a ? because Im only assuming that she's a BlueCheese because the friend that gave it to me said she was, but who knows for sure lol. She's (Im hoping for a girl also but cant be sure like the other *fem seeds) about 10 days older than the others which is why she's bigger.
View attachment 2049634View attachment 2049635
She's sitting in Pure Water and molasses until tomorrow when I get home from work, then she's going into the dark
View attachment 2049636View attachment 2049637
6 in 12/12... down to 2 today , 4 already showed male (mexican bagseeds)
View attachment 2049638View attachment 2049639
Daddy's little girls They're so cute at this age!
So Im still waiting on my latest T5 bulbs (replacement AquaMedic PlantGrow, 2 AquaticLife Roseates, 4 FloraSuns, and 4 RedSuns---backordered) So im waiting until I get them to re-configure my veg/flower lighting. Im planning to get one more 4 bulb panel which will go in the veg box and with the single bulb/reflector I bought today for the side, I will have 5 bulbs for Veg. Then I will move the 8bulb fixture from the veg box to the flower box, with 8 on top and the two 4bulb panels I already have on the sides, Ill have 16 total bulbs taking up the left 2/3 of the box, then the 400wHPS will run on the far right 2feet.
I had 6 mexican bagseeds that I had 12/12 from seedling, 4 of which have already shown their balls and were pulled. One of the two left looks very short and squatty and may be an oddball indica seed. But they're both healthy and thriving under the t5 12/12.
The 4 kindbud seedlings are doing well, the AutoHobbit is actually growing the fastest and is already growing sidebranches. The BlueCheese is labeled with a ? because Im only assuming that she's a BlueCheese because the friend that gave it to me said she was, but who knows for sure lol. She's (Im hoping for a girl also but cant be sure like the other *fem seeds) about 10 days older than the others which is why she's bigger.
View attachment 2049634View attachment 2049635
She's sitting in Pure Water and molasses until tomorrow when I get home from work, then she's going into the dark
View attachment 2049636View attachment 2049637
6 in 12/12... down to 2 today , 4 already showed male (mexican bagseeds)
View attachment 2049638View attachment 2049639
Daddy's little girls
They're so cute at this age!
mipainpatient
Active Member
Tight UC.
I found some stuff that has me looking at infrared supplement, was looking at an SPD for a heat lamp and found this nice quote, but let me set it up first:
In case you were ever wondering if you could get a girl hot using a heat lamp, remember that "IR-C is already absorbed in the horny layer" and proceed with caution, because penetration into the dermis is already optimized at 30cm. Yuck yuck. so nice that they give you output numbers/nms at measured distances....saves lots of time.
in the spirit of community i'll share:
http://www.infraphil.info/Philips_Infraphil-PAR38E.pdf
SPD is on bottom left of page 2, and in case you are wondering I am NOT going with this light, but it is nice to see some. I imagine the bulb/unit I settle on will have to be field tested for a useful quantitation but still nice to get to look at pictures.
Cheers all,
MPP
I found some stuff that has me looking at infrared supplement, was looking at an SPD for a heat lamp and found this nice quote, but let me set it up first:
In case you were ever wondering if you could get a girl hot using a heat lamp, remember that "IR-C is already absorbed in the horny layer" and proceed with caution, because penetration into the dermis is already optimized at 30cm. Yuck yuck. so nice that they give you output numbers/nms at measured distances....saves lots of time.
in the spirit of community i'll share:
http://www.infraphil.info/Philips_Infraphil-PAR38E.pdf
SPD is on bottom left of page 2, and in case you are wondering I am NOT going with this light, but it is nice to see some. I imagine the bulb/unit I settle on will have to be field tested for a useful quantitation but still nice to get to look at pictures.
Cheers all,
MPP
Phaeton
Active Member
I threw an UVB tube in with mine, the Arcadia is the greenish one. Like you wouldn't recognize Red Sun and Florasun.
ArcadiaD3+, 122 uw at 29"
View attachment 2049653 This is enough intensity to make a difference.
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/ has more specs.
ArcadiaD3+, 122 uw at 29"
View attachment 2049653 This is enough intensity to make a difference.
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/ has more specs.
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
Doing plenty of testing now with most recent harvest. Wil let you know.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Today's pics. I have no idea of the genetics, other than supposedly Dutch seed. She is small < 20" buds are smallish, no colas. I was asked to baby sit and finish. Plant now 20 days under FloraSun + Coral Wave + Red Life/Sun + FloraSun + Coral Wave. She seems to like this combination
January 21st
View attachment 2050496
Today Top Bud and lower bud
View attachment 2050487View attachment 2050488
January 21st
View attachment 2050496
Today Top Bud and lower bud
View attachment 2050487View attachment 2050488
AltarNation
Well-Known Member
I'm kinda slackin on the pics because I'm having trouble getting good shots along the way and then I miss my opportunity... but, after I pulled 7 ounces early just before christmas, (whoops, should have let them go! newb) I ended up pulling another 3 zips off the bottom buds which I let mature past the others... (which matured too far and some hermi'd--whoops! newb!) that totals 10 zips off 430 watts... so at least I exceeded the famed .5g/w aim. AND, this was my first time growing buds, and there were definitely health problems with the plants that had nothing to do with lighting, so I feel like I got some really good results all things considered. Oh, and the buds are primo quality, even if some of the plants grew out airier than I'd like. Some grew out damn near rock hard buds, even the small ones at the bottoms of the stems. And everything was absolutely covered in crystals.
They're not the prettiest buds in the world, my hackjob post-dry manicure was pretty bad and my photography lacked proper lighting, but, Here's some of the early harvest... chose to leave foliage on while drying... on the upside, I got a nice slow dry and the buds cured great after... on the downside, it's a pain in the ass to trim out foliage-thick buds on the dried buds. Still, the buds were really nice even with the extra leaf, so it might be worth it for the slow cure. Reminder, this is my first grow, this is from bag seed, and was having some health issues when I opted to harvest (hence the funky leaf colors):
And, I mean, I harvested some too early and some too late, and both were really awesome smoke. Everyone who's tried it has been blown away. Well, the latter stuff is still curing but it is smoothing out nicely and still has a great smell, taste, and even potency, despite being probably a bit over-developed.
Here's a couple shots I snapped while trimming up the later harvest:
And here's a few shots of the (already jarred) dried buds... they are fluffy but I don't really care, 3 zips is 3 zips and the potency and smell is still great. Sorry, I apparently failed to take pics of the latter crop dried outside of the jars.
After trimming all the buds from the stems and into the jars, I was left with a huge pile of shake... here's the fat joint I rolled from it, with a few hermi seeds I found in the shake:
Overall it didn't end up being the quality I wanted, but I blame myself mostly, and newb mistakes. It certainly wasn't the lights!
I think that this method is proven, and no matter how you look at it, it's certainly a worthwhile method. The MAIN reason I use T5 is to keep heat control and fire hazards to a minimum. I might have spent a little more on bulbs than I needed to, but since this is for self-supply I'm not too worried about it overall, it's paying itself off quickly.
Since I timed everything poorly, I ended up taking clones at a time that gave the results no where to go when they were ready... rigged up a CFL-based veg chamber and used that to hold them over for way too long, over a month. Decent lighting, but not enough really. I transplanted each of these into full 5 gallon bags which gave each of them some new space to grow roots... and I think I can make it work despite the stretching because I supercropped everything over and laid it all out horizontally across the chamber... next I'm going to build 3 screens, one for each, which add up to total the footprint of my T5 unit. I will take pics of this process when I get there. Just waiting for some materials to arrive...
One more, Bulb Porn, here's my current setup with +2 bulbs in center under ballast:
Hoping to greatly exceed my first results now that I have a better idea of how to care for them, better starting soil mix, and a couple extra tubes.... not to mention this time I am SCROGing 3 plants instead of LSTing 7 in the same space... will be interesting to see how it goes...
They're not the prettiest buds in the world, my hackjob post-dry manicure was pretty bad and my photography lacked proper lighting, but, Here's some of the early harvest... chose to leave foliage on while drying... on the upside, I got a nice slow dry and the buds cured great after... on the downside, it's a pain in the ass to trim out foliage-thick buds on the dried buds. Still, the buds were really nice even with the extra leaf, so it might be worth it for the slow cure. Reminder, this is my first grow, this is from bag seed, and was having some health issues when I opted to harvest (hence the funky leaf colors):
And, I mean, I harvested some too early and some too late, and both were really awesome smoke. Everyone who's tried it has been blown away. Well, the latter stuff is still curing but it is smoothing out nicely and still has a great smell, taste, and even potency, despite being probably a bit over-developed.
Here's a couple shots I snapped while trimming up the later harvest:
And here's a few shots of the (already jarred) dried buds... they are fluffy but I don't really care, 3 zips is 3 zips and the potency and smell is still great. Sorry, I apparently failed to take pics of the latter crop dried outside of the jars.
After trimming all the buds from the stems and into the jars, I was left with a huge pile of shake... here's the fat joint I rolled from it, with a few hermi seeds I found in the shake:
Overall it didn't end up being the quality I wanted, but I blame myself mostly, and newb mistakes. It certainly wasn't the lights!
I think that this method is proven, and no matter how you look at it, it's certainly a worthwhile method. The MAIN reason I use T5 is to keep heat control and fire hazards to a minimum. I might have spent a little more on bulbs than I needed to, but since this is for self-supply I'm not too worried about it overall, it's paying itself off quickly.
Since I timed everything poorly, I ended up taking clones at a time that gave the results no where to go when they were ready... rigged up a CFL-based veg chamber and used that to hold them over for way too long, over a month. Decent lighting, but not enough really. I transplanted each of these into full 5 gallon bags which gave each of them some new space to grow roots... and I think I can make it work despite the stretching because I supercropped everything over and laid it all out horizontally across the chamber... next I'm going to build 3 screens, one for each, which add up to total the footprint of my T5 unit. I will take pics of this process when I get there. Just waiting for some materials to arrive...
One more, Bulb Porn, here's my current setup with +2 bulbs in center under ballast:
Hoping to greatly exceed my first results now that I have a better idea of how to care for them, better starting soil mix, and a couple extra tubes.... not to mention this time I am SCROGing 3 plants instead of LSTing 7 in the same space... will be interesting to see how it goes...
AltarNation
Well-Known Member
Phaeton your setup is amazing dude... rock on. Can't believe how many T5 fixtures you have in there... makes me want to buy more... heh.
BlueB
Active Member
Update,
I got some new bulbs to try out, the Giesemann Midday and the Actinic Plus. They are both REALLY nice. The Midday is high in the 630nm range, the graph online is wrong. The graph on the package is correct. They have a golden type of appearance. The Actinic Plus covers the entire blue range really well.
Midday, Flora Sun, Red Sun, Coral Wave, Red Sun, Actinic Plus, Flora Sun, Midday,
I got some new bulbs to try out, the Giesemann Midday and the Actinic Plus. They are both REALLY nice. The Midday is high in the 630nm range, the graph online is wrong. The graph on the package is correct. They have a golden type of appearance. The Actinic Plus covers the entire blue range really well.
Midday, Flora Sun, Red Sun, Coral Wave, Red Sun, Actinic Plus, Flora Sun, Midday,
hyroot
Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;X8tmCMpV10c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8tmCMpV10c&t=22s[/video]
mipainpatient
Active Member
I have a box that blown ones go in, like I mentioned in an earlier post, anything that still radiates light is used to grow veggies. When the box eventually fills (I have CFLs from my house that occasionally go too) I'll go dump it all at haz disposal, flat fee for volume so might as well save up bulbs in my situation.
BlueB
Active Member
NOW THAT'S USIN YOUR HEAD!!
The haz-waste place here doesn't charge for normal household crap, such as light bulbs. For paint and shit like that I think they do charge.