LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
hey fellas its me again...I would like to hear from your opioion after i dont want to buy LED glow panel 45...so i went to my hydro store...they will sell me T5 (4 ft) for 123.00 with daylight it produce 10,000 lumens...so i thought it will be good start to invest with T5 ? so my question is about acquire the red and blue tubes, im not sure if its meet the standard grow with cannabis ? heres a link that i would like to order

http://www.quantumhort.com/quantum-triphosphor-lamps.html



I ll be highly appreicate , from your advice or tip...and hook me up if you know where the site that offer good deal of tubes :) thanks.
Start here.. and look for the bulbs listed in this forum theres plenty in the last few pages...
Your local aquarium stores may have some of these bulbs as they are pretty popular.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/54w-48in-ati-blue-plus-t5-ho-fluorescent-bulb.html
http://www.marinedepot.com/ATI_Blue_Plus_T5HO_Fluorescent_Bulbs_T5_High_Output_Fluorescent_Light_Bulbs_for_Aquariums-ATI-UZ1109-FILTBUT5HO-vi.html
 
I ended up finding a few T8 lamps from Zoo Med, but they all seem to be on the blue end of the spectrum.

I guess I'll just try retrofiting. My lights are already just some home made modular panels that let me keep adding lamps in groups of four. Time to shop for some ballasts and hardware.
 

Izoc666

Well-Known Member
Start here.. and look for the bulbs listed in this forum theres plenty in the last few pages...
Your local aquarium stores may have some of these bulbs as they are pretty popular.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/54w-48in-ati-blue-plus-t5-ho-fluorescent-bulb.html
http://www.marinedepot.com/ATI_Blue_Plus_T5HO_Fluorescent_Bulbs_T5_High_Output_Fluorescent_Light_Bulbs_for_Aquariums-ATI-UZ1109-FILTBUT5HO-vi.html
thanks a lot... i got full of pictures now...have a good day, sir

+rep for ya :)
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
Well I have exchanged several emails now with Thomas Pohl @ Korallen Zucht about spectrums and nm peaks. His replies:

"we don't have that, sorry. I have only exact parameters in nm but that i can not give for advertising"
and
"sorry but that are our combanys secrets"
and
"nobody gives you exactly nm levels, you get from everybody only self made grafics but we do not have that. I hope you understand that."

so, a big strikeout on trying to get something definitive from the manufacturer on that one... really makes me wonder where these Fiji Purple spectrum graphs on the Internet have come from...
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
Oh I also got a reply from Jeff Saghy @ UV Lighting:

"Sorry for the late response, we've been shorthanded and extremely busy. So not to make the graphs more confusing then they are is to simply show where the light peaks are. The lamps are all measured differently on the x-axis chart and should not be used to show light intensity. The red Sun lamp is peaking at 633nm which is very specific in the red spectral peak."
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
What I have come up with now:

12 BULBS TOTAL
2X UVL Super Actinic (420)
2X UVL 454 (460)
2X Giesemann Actinic Plus (420-460)
2X Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple (440 and 660)
2X UVL Red Sun (633)
2X Aquatic Life Roseate (650)



VEGETATIVE
1 Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple (440 and 660)
2 UVL 454 (460)
3 Giesemann Actinic Plus (420-460)
4 UVL Super Actinic (420)
5 Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple (440 and 660)
6 UVL 454 (460)
7 Giesemann Actinic Plus (420-460)
8 UVL Super Actinic (420)

FLOWERING
1 Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple (440 and 660)
2 Aquatic Life Roseate (650)
3 Giesemann Actinic Plus (420-460)
4 UVL Red Sun (633)
5 Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple (440 and 660)
6 Aquatic Life Roseate (650)
7 Giesemann Actinic Plus (420-460)
8 UVL Red Sun (633)

Thoughts???
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
The Giesemann Actinic + (420 + 460) is an entirely different bulb than the UVL Super Actinic (420). Giesemann also has a pure (420) bulb called the Pure Actinic... That would be the one to compare to the UVL Super Actinic... Neither of these have much 460...

The reason I like the Giesemann Actinic +, is exactly because it has both 420 and 460 emissions. I was going for a bulb with both 420 and 460 that could be more ideal for staying in the fixture during both vegetative (where they would be combined with pure 420 and 460 bulbs, and the Fiji Purples) and during flowering (replace the pure 420/460 bulbs for the 633/650 bulbs, and the Giesemanns and the Fiji Purples stay...).

I suppose I could save money and achieve approximately the same result by not purchasing any Giesemann Actinic +, and just keep 1 420 bulb and 1 460 bulb in the fixture during flowering... yeah... only have to buy 10 bulbs total then... /shrug

I agree with you on the Roseate... I don't like the spectrum a whole lot either, but it is difficult to find that upper red... I sure wish you could still get the 48" ATI Pro Colors! ***sigh*** (of course I have not seen a spectrum for those...)

Anyways, just wanted to point that out. Thanks for your thoughts Pr0f!
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
ATI Pro Color stuff that I have found:

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?84562-54w-(48-inch)-ATI-T5-Pro-Color-Bulb

http://www.monstermarketplace.com/light-bulbs/ati-pro-color-t5-ho-80w-60-aquarium-bulb

Color Temperature: 650 - 720 nm

ATI_ProColor.jpg

ATI Pro Color T5 HO Aquarium Bulb Full spectrum bulb characterized by its deep red color section in the 650 - 720 nm range. Deep red spectrum is excellent for bringing out the vibrant reds in an aquarium and enhances the non-fluorescent pigments in corals bringing out the true color of an aquarium. This new "Pro color" is characterized especially by its deep red color sections (max by 660nm wavelength) , which are responsible for the lush, red color. Thereby, "Pro color" represents an optimum addition to many of the other light tubes on the market for the illumination of aquariums.


The ATI Pro Color graph is basically identical to the Aquatic Life Roseate:

AquaticLife_Roseate.png
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
Come to think of it, each of the above is basically identical to the Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple... with the major exception that the Fiji Purple graph is rendered with a taller red peak, and a shorter green peak... heh...

It is a shame about the email replies that I got from Thomas Pohl @ Korallen Zucht... would be nice to confirm.
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Come to think of it, each of the above is basically identical to the Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple... with the major exception that the Fiji Purple graph is rendered with a taller red peak, and a shorter green peak... heh...

It is a shame about the email replies that I got from Thomas Pohl @ Korallen Zucht... would be nice to confirm.
View attachment 1788073
Not even close... fuji are 660nm and have tons more blue... if i could find a cheaper better bulb i would use it! the procolors are not even on my list any more.. theyre obsolete s far as im concerned.. i have found a replacement!!!

the 454 is the bulb for 450-46nm
also the 75.25 is the bulb i use for "green" supplementation.. because its mostly actinic with a sprinkle lol of green and a dash of yellow ... :-/ but its the only bulb that has this very hard to find combo without any other extra color.
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Could be a good bulb... however their charts seem to be suspect... if they are as represented they would be a good addition.. however i stiil have found a better far red bulb


 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
i think im going to mix one or two of these with my fiji purps in flowering(maybe remove an actinic and replace with these?!!).. i love the even DEEPER red! from what i have researched deep infra red will be very beneficial to flowering...
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
There is no doubt that the graph of the Fiji Purple that is posted throughout this thread is the best looking spectrum. The problem is, nobody knows where that graph came from... Even the author of the original article that this mysterious spectrum graph comes from stated in the same article, "Do you know how nearly impossible it was to find this spectral graph? I actually can't even remember how I came across it, but this is the graph for KZ's Fiji Purple." How do I know this is the post where pr0f found the graph? Do some searching yourself, and you will see! And look at the file name! "giesemann fiji purple.jpg" LOL

Anyways, talk about suspect... ^^^

And again, I pursued this issue further in several email communications with Thomas Pohl at Korallen Zucht over the course of 2 days, and posted his replies right here in this thread a page or two back... The company does not release any spectrum graphs or any specific nm peaks... Sucks!

Not that I won't be testing out Fiji Purples, or that I am trying to diss on them... I like them! They have a great reputation, and are clearly designed to be red/blue bulbs. I am just trying to shed further light on the subject... Perhaps it is not really necessary to pay a premium for a bulb that has no specs released by the manufacturer. You keep talking about suspect graphs pr0f, yet swearing by the one graph that is clearly the most suspect of any of them! Don't get me wrong! I actually agree with you that some of these graphs do indeed raise considerable suspicion... ***sigh*** My 2c... Can't wait to start experimenting myself! I think I have looked at T5 bulb specs and graphs and obsessed over it enough to get going...
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
1. No where did i mention that theres a premium for the kz fiji purps.. just that they are specialized like the super actinic all actinic and nothing else... those are expensive too...
http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/index.html <-------- Hes a published Author.... thats where i got the picture.
The geissman bulbs are the same price.
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/lighting/t5-lamps/deltec-giesemann/giesemann-pure-actinic-t5-ho-lamps
Fiji purple have been posted before that one it was the picture that i saved...also how many times do you ever get any assistance fron anyone over email?support...
heres another posting...
http://reefgizmo.com/2011/01/kz-fiji-purple-vs-ati-purple-plus/
And Another
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40599&OB=ASC
Another
http://reefbuilders.com/2011/01/27/sylvania-t5-kz-fiji-ati-purple/
Another
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/captive_aquatics/2010/11/t5s-spectrums-choosing-whats-right-for-you.html

Im just going off what i can find... at least all posts of this chart are the SAME...but when the posting of the same bulb are DIFFERENT i have an issue and when the spd chart has inaccurate measurements.. thats suspect...
 

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
Never said YOU mentioned a premium for the KZ Fiji Purple... I mentioned it! hehe =D I have found that they are near $30 a bulb everywhere you look, unless you can get lucky and find a sale. That is approximately 2-3X as much as other "red" producing bulbs like Zoo Med Flora Sun and Wave Point Red Wave (now called Color Wave) which can be had around $10 a bulb, and the Current/True Lumen Freshwater Flora and Aquatic Life Roseate which can be had around $15 a bulb... Hey, maybe they are worth it! Maybe they are not... But why compare the price of a Giesemann pure actinic? 1. Entirely different bulb spectrum. 2. You can find plenty of pure actinics for $10 - $15, so I wouldn't buy the Giesemann one either! Almost every brand out there sells pure actinics at 420 and 460 for much cheaper than Giesemann! Have a look! Although I do agree with you that it is nice that the UVL actinic bulbs have internal reflectors, solid reputation, and still hover around $20, so these are probably worth it when purchasing pure actinics!

Yep, he's a published author, and his pic is titled "giesemann fiji purple.jpg" and he states that he has no idea where he got the graph...

http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html

It is clear that other sources of this graph have simply ripped it off this same article... Read these articles, and look at the file name! In all the examples (except for the reefgizmo one), it is still called "giesemann fiji purple.jpg" I guess one guy had the sense to notice and change it! LOL But this same guy also actually tells you upfront in his article that his data is coming from http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html... And the last example is just a blog wherein the orignial practicalcoralfarming article was simply copied/pasted in its entirety! All of this hardly makes the argument "at least they are the SAME" hold any water... The graph is not very specific, either. The whole thing looks like it is mathematically averaged between very few data points... Look at how soft and curvy it is... there are no specific peaks jutting out... What kind of light emitters do that?

As far as email support goes... I have exchanged emails with Current, Wave Point, Aquatic Life, UVL and Korallen Zucht all in the last week, and every single one of them except for Korallen Zucht has been helpful, and provided me with specific nm peaks and spectrum graphs. So that is how many times I was able to get assistance from someone over email support...

Anyways, I'm interested in reading more about the benefits of 700-800nm during flowering that you mention... Can you help me out with any links to get going? Cheers!
 
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