'legalize' 'tax and regulate' or human rights first?

Doer said:
Absolutely and hearing other views and being allowed to express our own is what it's all about.

If we had a Federal govt that said any State that collects tax will collect the Federal share for cannabis, would that be good?

I favor our system. I have recognized and identify with the Founders as true Che-ists. Risk the noose with a great idea.

Che really detested the progressive, soft liberal elitists. And back in the days of the SDS, we were against the Democrats.

Then I finally saw, if the system is Che-ist, Founded by Che-ists, then I'm already here. I don't have to take sides. The govt, we say, took it on themselves to ban ganja. But, that's not true, brother. That's was US, we the people. We govern ourselves like it or not, for better or worse.

So, I see that WE, now, could tax it. Everyone will be happy except the War on Drug payola scam. They have powerful friends. It is $Bs Industry in the USA and extend to the Cartels, which is $Ts.

So, Monsanto is our friend here. Not Govt. No us and them. A big, powerful Private Corporation. But, staffed and threaded thru with people like us, not in Congress. Looking to unlock the keys to cannabis for us. But, most important, this Industry, Big Pharma, Agro, Way of Life Companies have the $$$ to do it and rival then defeat the Drug War payola. That's what can happen.

Better living through chemistry. Without chemicals, life itself would be impossible.

I have thought like you about this.

Try thinking like me for a minute. This is the system we can use. And Patents expire. Lovely system.
Click to expand...


No need to think your way Doer because I once worked as the go between for a corp intending to plant and use hemp and the DEA (back in the mid 90s) and it was my job to think like you...oh the things I learned...I've also been many other places in this that by your writing I'm guessing you haven't been and so such experiences have kept me on the red road rather than hitchhiking at the crossroads like I'm guessing you were at one time my friend...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgcWfVvT_UM
I'm the unaffiliated chap...
Doer I appreciate your honesty in this and your other responses and I ask that people take note because such honesty you will not see from mpp or dpa or norml etc..."Monsanto is our friend here", George Soros (Monsanto stakeholder) would agree and of the record so would Ethan Nadleman (dpa) Georges lil boy wonder.
So as short as this thread is it has fully already done its job...
The choice is has been made crystal clear for you here:
If you support 'legalization' then you are supporting Doer's thinking (which still doesn't give you the whole picture but does reveal enough to give you a good enough pic of that corporate road).
If you support securing reality first = your inherent natural human rights, then supporting 'legalization' is definitely not in your best interest.
Thanks again to Doer and all the others who did my work for me on this thread...this is the definitive thread on 'legalization', read carefully:peace:
 
DNAprotection said:
No need to think your way Doer because I once worked as the go between for a corp intending to plant and use hemp and the DEA (back in the mid 90s) and it was my job to think like you...oh the things I learned...I've also been many other places in this that by your writing I'm guessing you haven't been and so such experiences have kept me on the red road rather than hitchhiking at the crossroads like I'm guessing you were at one time my friend...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgcWfVvT_UM
I'm the unaffiliated chap...
Doer I appreciate your honesty in this and your other responses and I ask that people take note because such honesty you will not see from mpp or dpa or norml etc..."Monsanto is our friend here", George Soros (Monsanto stakeholder) would agree and of the record so would Ethan Nadleman (dpa) Georges lil boy wonder.
So as short as this thread is it has fully already done its job...
The choice is has been made crystal clear for you here:
If you support 'legalization' then you are supporting Doer's thinking (which still doesn't give you the whole picture but does reveal enough to give you a good enough pic of that corporate road).
If you support securing reality first = your inherent natural human rights, then supporting 'legalization' is definitely not in your best interest.
Thanks again to Doer and all the others who did my work for me on this thread...this is the definitive thread on 'legalization', read carefully:peace:
Click to expand...

Stfu you arrogant little twat, your threads deserve to be on page 142+, this is the definitive thread on legalisation?

In what way exactly? How not to get it done in our grand-kids lifetime?
 
Well, yes,, hitchhking the Galaxy. :) So, there are many perspectives. And in the adversarial system (Che-ist) we fight for everything among ourselves but with very little bloodletting. This isn't a system of sharing unless we fight about what and how, re: sharing.

To me, the many pressures from the various adversaries is a problem in physics, or human meta-physics, if you will. Nothing simple, to be sure.

So, we can say that all "progress" in this system is a resultant vector of many pressures, and forces from many directions. Headwinds, tailswinds, sidewinds, turbulence, downdrafts, etc. What guides the airplane of our destiny?

Or my favorite example is the water melon seed. It has a most peculiar shape. And those in the know, can take a seed and squeeze it just so with the finger tips and thumb, it SHOOTS out. Good velocity and range and can be aimed fairly well. What aims the seed of our Hopes?

What is it that takes all the forces and anneals them into We, our Will? It's the Constitution.

So, the idea of Individual rights as some kind of finger on this water melon seed is mistaken. Rights are not in question. In ROW, sure. No Consitutional protection. We have the 9th. Things go in, and wow, out recently, albeit partially, is cannabis..... This seed is propelled as the Money Shot. Revenue.

For the record, I don't favor legal because of the counter culture win there. Taxed Herbal, FDA is best and then let the States continue to decide what they will do to regulate an herbal product, like GNC brands.

And I will gladly kick up to Don Fed. And as much as I like to express myself, I feel it prudent to discuss this idea of Non-recombinate DNA gaining a Patent.

As I understand it, Monsanto can't just find an heirloom Apple in Ethiopia and patent that DNA. But, they can take something from the strain an use human patentable ingenuity on it.

So, are you sure you have thought this through completely? As for Soros, he has a lot of holding but, he or his orgs don't control Big Chem and Pharma. That sounds a bit swerved into political stance. Soros holds 5.8 million....probably less now.

Aug 15, 2011 – Soros reduced his stake in Monsanto by 2.6 million shares to 79,400. The position is now valued at $5.8 million, according to the filing.

I spend the time to look it up. Took 5 seconds. So, you seem sincere and I take it at face value, but are you sure there is any meat to your concerns?

We have something at work we call, FUD. Fear, Uncertainly and Doubt. It is a tool used against progress.

Good discussion.
 
Doer said:
Well, yes,, hitchhking the Galaxy. :) So, there are many perspectives. And in the adversarial system (Che-ist) we fight for everything among ourselves but with very little bloodletting. This isn't a system of sharing unless we fight about what and how, re: sharing.

To me, the many pressures from the various adversaries is a problem in physics, or human meta-physics, if you will. Nothing simple, to be sure.

So, we can say that all "progress" in this system is a resultant vector of many pressures, and forces from many directions. Headwinds, tailswinds, sidewinds, turbulence, downdrafts, etc. What guides the airplane of our destiny?

Or my favorite example is the water melon seed. It has a most peculiar shape. And those in the know, can take a seed and squeeze it just so with the finger tips and thumb, it SHOOTS out. Good velocity and range and can be aimed fairly well. What aims the seed of our Hopes?

What is it that takes all the forces and anneals them into We, our Will? It's the Constitution.

So, the idea of Individual rights as some kind of finger on this water melon seed is mistaken. Rights are not in question. In ROW, sure. No Consitutional protection. We have the 9th. Things go in, and wow, out recently, albeit partially, is cannabis..... This seed is propelled as the Money Shot. Revenue.

For the record, I don't favor legal because of the counter culture win there. Taxed Herbal, FDA is best and then let the States continue to decide what they will do to regulate an herbal product, like GNC brands.

And I will gladly kick up to Don Fed. And as much as I like to express myself, I feel it prudent to discuss this idea of Non-recombinate DNA gaining a Patent.

As I understand it, Monsanto can't just find an heirloom Apple in Ethiopia and patent that DNA. But, they can take something from the strain an use human patentable ingenuity on it.

So, are you sure you have thought this through completely? As for Soros, he has a lot of holding but, he or his orgs don't control Big Chem and Pharma. That sounds a bit swerved into political stance. Soros holds 5.8 million....probably less now.

Aug 15, 2011 – Soros reduced his stake in Monsanto by 2.6 million shares to 79,400. The position is now valued at $5.8 million, according to the filing.

I spend the time to look it up. Took 5 seconds. So, you seem sincere and I take it at face value, but are you sure there is any meat to your concerns?

We have something at work we call, FUD. Fear, Uncertainly and Doubt. It is a tool used against progress.

Good discussion.
Click to expand...

Doer maybe you have misunderstood my point about GS and his pets, I dont think its about the money (not to say that the numbers you site are peanuts) for curious George as much as its about ideology and that his internal analysis is probably not unlike yours in many ways.
As far as the risk v reward factor of genetic engineering, I think we all need to learn a great deal more before we engage/employ or formulate approving opinions about.
Much is still being hashed out in the court on the patenting issue and it will be interesting to see what comes of the current litigation swirling out there:
Old man goes after Monsanto

patenting life

I do appreciate our talks Doer because even though we disagree in fundamental areas I feel that you are honest and that you actually seem to think about and discuss things, I find such to be a rare trait in these times and in this place ;)
 
A 75 year old man....in every article it starts that way. 75 is not even that old, these days. And they make it sound like he is doing the brute fight on his own. 5 rounds against Soros 82 years old.

So, the press doesn't help discussion. They hinder. Not oil on water with them. Oil onto the campfire. And the nature of they game is to make it David and Goliath. The triumph of the little man. It's not even socialism, nor americanism, Westernism, or anything actually helpful. it's the 4th rail. Off on a crazy track. Unique in the world, this western press.

So, all that fall for it are duped. In other words, we all are, more are less, Duped. So, I had to begin my new understanding there.

Am I against the dupe....no....that's just more dupe.

If Information is a stream, then the press is the irrigation network. A bit arbitrary with the portions. Muddy sections that need cleaning, etc. Some of it is broken all together. Sometimes it floods the fields, sometimes it's clogged and dry.

In general, the Press is not to be trusted, and we are totally dependent on it Constitutionally to hear any free speech.

So, the press told you when the Soros Fund bought 789,000 shares of Monsanto. They told you it was an attempt to patent life. They make the David and Goliath story, because that's what we like, they say.

They DID NOT tell you that in Sept, based on the funds forward analysis, they sold all but $5.8 million dollars worth. I told you, but I had to look it up.

You say that's a chunk of change, but it is not. It is almost what I run as a Dept budget, every year. You just don't understand the game, yet.

And it is the press that makes us need to cheer for the little guy, but they say WE want that. And so it goes. This adversarial system. The press tells us what we say we want, but that is what they say we want. And then they make it so.

We have the best damn soybeans in world and I wish the farmer well, despite the Age-ist press. If and when Monsanto gets going they will produce the best ganga in the world. It's what we do.
 
ChesusRice said:
No this certainly isn's about cannabis with you. It's more like some Kind of New John Birch Society rantings.

Bet you supported Ron Paul didnt you?
Click to expand...

I found your fed leg thread and found your posts there to be pathetically ironic...

02-06-2013, 07:23 PM #5
ChesusRice


ChesusRice said:
I get flamed for this all the time
But the best solution is

legal to possess and grow
Illegal to sell"
Click to expand...
ChesusRice said:
"Anyways back on topic​
Click to expand...




ChesusRice said:
I would think it still stands that the best situation would be
legal to grow and possess
Illegal to sell
Click to expand...
ChesusRice said:
The problem I see with full blown legalalization to sell is. The goverment. Once you make something for human consumption. The goverment needs to step in to regulate it so people arent smoking insecticides and what not. Then big tobacco will step in and buy some congressmen and get laws passed for Licensing to protect their market.
national sentiment has change from marijuana is bad to marijuana crime is bad. If you make it legal to possess and grow illegal to sell. You dont have to worry about crime syndicates, big tobacco or the goverment.
No one regulates growing tomatoes in your back yard. but they will step in if you try to sell them to the supermarket.
Click to expand...

ChesusRice said:
So should I put you down as supporting

Legal to grow and possess
Illegal to sell​
Click to expand...
Dude thats what this thread was all about...in fact to my knowledge I am the only person in US history to ever file a fed case seeking to reestablish your ChesusRice rights to do exactly that...it was in large part based on the 9th amendment (the amen Doer is a big fan of with talk but no action ;) ) and would have made case law that congress would of had to work around...no way to stop folks selling or congressional laws that establish whatever, but at least you would have gotten your right to do as you say you want to do for you and congress would have just had to swallow that med/pill.
If more like cases cases had been filed there might have been a different outcome imo.
Once congress passes laws that give 'reasonable access' to cannabis etc as with the new proposed fed leg then the issue of 'standing' becomes far more difficult to reach...gov usually gets their wins at the 'standing' arguments because to be awarded the 'right' to take gov to trial you must show 'standing' and the standard is already tough.
Folks here are clearly to smart for me so I guess I'll just go back to gardening and leave all the big boy politics to geniuses like you and Doer...

Oh and Frank... ;)

223540_488104914559898_1221942429_n.png



You shouldn't have to long a wait here bro because im guessing the next post will be yours, chat amongst yourself ;)





​




​
 
No need to get pissy. I have said I support your actions. There's nothing more for me to do. But, you are just being a shit with this, all talk and no action business. You have no idea. But, I see, the adversarial system will work, in it's own sweet time.

But, I also see the One Man Band of your ego, now. Pride goeth before the fall. Ya did good are doing good. Now, don't break your arm patting yourself on your back. :)

And you can wind down the shitty when people don't agree. I think the legalization effort will likely lead to an impasse due to our treaty commitments Federally.
 
ChesusRice said:
George soros is the master mind of the secret Jews controlling the world with fluoride
Click to expand...
When I post in this guys threads, he's actually so dumb, I wish a microphone could transcribe me making loud, stupid noises at the screen.

Its really all his cock-dribble deserves.

I wish they'd engineer a fungus that attacks retards like GAYprotection...I suppose it could even give all women bigger tits too, you know, as a high five to mankind's advancement.
 
Doer said:
No need to get pissy. I have said I support your actions. There's nothing more for me to do. But, you are just being a shit with this, all talk and no action business. You have no idea. But, I see, the adversarial system will work, in it's own sweet time.

But, I also see the One Man Band of your ego, now. Pride goeth before the fall. Ya did good are doing good. Now, don't break your arm patting yourself on your back. :)

And you can wind down the shitty when people don't agree. I think the legalization effort will likely lead to an impasse due to our treaty commitments Federally.
Click to expand...

Doer all I did was state real facts and real opinions trying to make real points that have either alluded you or maybe your post here is a simple and typical diversionary response in effort to avoid addressing the points made?
With even deeper analysis I believe it might be that your response is rooted in the very thing you accuse me of?
Either way the point stands that for 20+ years the 'legalization' orgs have successfully diverted most all resources and minds that oppose the cannabis laws into chasing tale with legislative efforts rather than an army of plaintiffs (not lawyers lol) flooding the court system with truth and constitutional challenges be they 9th amendment based or not.
Now if fed leg is passed it makes gaining standing for any such cases all the more difficult to reach and might as well in a way be closing the coffin door on any chance of reestablishing 'certain rights held by the people' or individuals etc because moving forward as things stand will end up in complete corpsgov control of the plant, your interaction with it and of its molecular structures etc.
Its been a long time coming Doer and we have all had the chance to do something real about it, but we have not done it and so as it is written by the overseers then so shall it be done.

[video=youtube;2DUqplxIcNk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUqplxIcNk[/video]
 
DNAprotection said:
Doer all I did was state real facts and real opinions trying to make real points that have either alluded you or maybe your post here is a simple and typical diversionary response in effort to avoid addressing the points made?
With even deeper analysis I believe it might be that your response is rooted in the very thing you accuse me of?
Either way the point stands that for 20+ years the 'legalization' orgs have successfully diverted most all resources and minds that oppose the cannabis laws into chasing tale with legislative efforts rather than an army of plaintiffs (not lawyers lol) flooding the court system with truth and constitutional challenges be they 9th amendment based or not.
Now if fed leg is passed it makes gaining standing for any such cases all the more difficult to reach and might as well in a way be closing the coffin door on any chance of reestablishing 'certain rights held by the people' or individuals etc because moving forward as things stand will end up in complete corpsgov control of the plant, your interaction with it and of its molecular structures etc.
Its been a long time coming Doer and we have all had the chance to do something real about it, but we have not done it and so as it is written by the overseers then so shall it be done.

[video=youtube;2DUqplxIcNk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUqplxIcNk[/video]
Click to expand...
Potatoes, monkey, dishwasher, ironing board.

Also... aeroplanes.
 
Yes, H, and this thread is now officially boring. Let's go some place else.

The FUD here is just too much.
 
For anyone who isn't bored with trying to stay human...

This is an excerpt from a recent California judges ruling in a case challenging a local ordinance to restrict the number of outdoor plants a legally qualified patient can grow:

“Additionally, I want to address the analogy of growing tomatoes. Obviously an ordinance which declares growing more than X number of tomato plants outdoors in plain view to be a nuisance would be unconstitutional, That’s certain.
But I’ve never heard of a tomato gardener growing tomatoes for his or her own consumption being killed during a tomato robbery. Or of a tomato robber being killed in the act of stealing tomatoes.
Cultivation of marijuana is a crime, to begin with, just like cultivating cocoa plants or opium poppies.
However, unlike those offenses, and unlike growing tomatoes, or like growing tomatoes, rather, the people of this state have decided that there needs to be an exemption to this criminal statute to protect legitimate medical marijuana users.”

This judge has been on the bench for 18 years (now just retired, this was one of his last cases) and he is well aware of the Wickard and Raich cases, so how does the judge reach this constitutional conclusion about tomato growing?

Why wouldn't the same consideration apply to growing cannabis or any other plant?

Just something to think about...

[video=youtube;kGa5O1e7HVk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGa5O1e7HVk[/video]
 
DNAprotection said:
For anyone who isn't bored with trying to stay human...

This is an excerpt from a recent California judges ruling in a case challenging a local ordinance to restrict the number of outdoor plants a legally qualified patient can grow:

“Additionally, I want to address the analogy of growing tomatoes. Obviously an ordinance which declares growing more than X number of tomato plants outdoors in plain view to be a nuisance would be unconstitutional, That’s certain.
But I’ve never heard of a tomato gardener growing tomatoes for his or her own consumption being killed during a tomato robbery. Or of a tomato robber being killed in the act of stealing tomatoes.
Cultivation of marijuana is a crime, to begin with, just like cultivating cocoa plants or opium poppies.
However, unlike those offenses, and unlike growing tomatoes, or like growing tomatoes, rather, the people of this state have decided that there needs to be an exemption to this criminal statute to protect legitimate medical marijuana users.”

This judge has been on the bench for 18 years (now just retired, this was one of his last cases) and he is well aware of the Wickard and Raich cases, so how does the judge reach this constitutional conclusion about tomato growing?

Why wouldn't the same consideration apply to growing cannabis or any other plant?

Just something to think about...

[video=youtube;kGa5O1e7HVk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGa5O1e7HVk[/video]
Click to expand...

Tomato robberies? Cannabis?

WTF DO YOU WANT FROM US?!

Lunatic.
 
It is an important point I think and it clearly shows the minutia of the Law.

To me he is saying the only thing that makes tomatoes different is the federal law being too broad brush as to include ganga.

Cocaine and opium are not parallel and so excluded, as he points out.
 
Doer said:
A 75 year old man....in every article it starts that way. 75 is not even that old, these days. And they make it sound like he is doing the brute fight on his own. 5 rounds against Soros 82 years old.

So, the press doesn't help discussion. They hinder. Not oil on water with them. Oil onto the campfire. And the nature of they game is to make it David and Goliath. The triumph of the little man. It's not even socialism, nor americanism, Westernism, or anything actually helpful. it's the 4th rail. Off on a crazy track. Unique in the world, this western press.

So, all that fall for it are duped. In other words, we all are, more are less, Duped. So, I had to begin my new understanding there.

Am I against the dupe....no....that's just more dupe.

If Information is a stream, then the press is the irrigation network. A bit arbitrary with the portions. Muddy sections that need cleaning, etc. Some of it is broken all together. Sometimes it floods the fields, sometimes it's clogged and dry.

In general, the Press is not to be trusted, and we are totally dependent on it Constitutionally to hear any free speech.

So, the press told you when the Soros Fund bought 789,000 shares of Monsanto. They told you it was an attempt to patent life. They make the David and Goliath story, because that's what we like, they say.

They DID NOT tell you that in Sept, based on the funds forward analysis, they sold all but $5.8 million dollars worth. I told you, but I had to look it up.

You say that's a chunk of change, but it is not. It is almost what I run as a Dept budget, every year. You just don't understand the game, yet.

And it is the press that makes us need to cheer for the little guy, but they say WE want that. And so it goes. This adversarial system. The press tells us what we say we want, but that is what they say we want. And then they make it so.

We have the best damn soybeans in world and I wish the farmer well, despite the Age-ist press. If and when Monsanto gets going they will produce the best ganga in the world. It's what we do.
Click to expand...

YOU - don't do shit... And YOU didn't build that so STFU...
 
I spray.. And see, it works as intended....like Roundup used to.

18 years or older, don't spray on dogs, mileage may vary

Buy my product!
 
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