Lens and Reflector Optics for COB

What Optics do you use in your DIY Lamp

  • No Optics

    Votes: 132 45.4%

  • Glass Lens

    Votes: 58 19.9%

  • Reflector

    Votes: 118 40.5%

  • Silicone Lens

    Votes: 23 7.9%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 2.1%
  • Total voters
    291
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me if it's true that some lenses can create a color shift and if there is any data on that? The reason I ask is because when I was ready to pull the trigger on an Optic Vero fixture, awhile back, I was advised to pick the 4000K temperature COB because the lens would shift the color closer to a 3500K. I'm wondering if that is true of all lenses.

Thanks
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
tstick said:
Can anyone tell me if it's true that some lenses can create a color shift and if there is any data on that? The reason I ask is because when I was ready to pull the trigger on an Optic Vero fixture, awhile back, I was advised to pick the 4000K temperature COB because the lens would shift the color closer to a 3500K. I'm wondering if that is true of all lenses.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Im thinking lenses could "block" your below 400nm light if they are not low iron glass but to shift a 4000k to 3500k would mean they are blocking only certain nm of the light and a fair bit of it IMHO. Also some lenses are glass some silicone which would have to affect the output differently if that was the case as well.
 
hillbill

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Seems that olden days hps bulbs, even the best, had more "shift" between several bulbs in the same room when new, than what seems to be the case here. Check out some streetlights. PAR does run from 400nm to 700nm.

Plants also experience many changes to the light during any single day and seem to cope quite well. Fog, clouds, smoke, dust and dew point along with season and time of day all change light at ground level. 3000 to 4000k will find a way to make you happy.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the responses. I agree that plants are very adaptive to their environments. But I'm wondering if the adaptations are beneficial or not to the final outcome of the crop.

@Stephenj37826…I am going by what I was told by someone at the former Optic company. Maybe it was a rough estimate…?? I have no idea. I guess the gist of it was that the lenses would, indeed, change the light output -to the "warmer" spectrum.

It got me to thinking about the materials from which lenses are made and how those materials can alter the "final" spectrum that is actually hitting the plants. I think it would be interesting to see it. Maybe someone with a spectrometer can add that information in regards to lenses.
 
B

benbud89

Well-Known Member
cutter doesnt offer mean well drivers, do they? Besides the expensive 240, I cant seem to find others. Im bad at using their website, though..
 
littlejacob

littlejacob

Well-Known Member
Bonjour
No!...no MW hlg series in cutter!
I asked them a week ago and they told me that they will maybe have some soon!
But I am pretty sure they will have some...they know that they could sell some to us...and that many of us still go for Jerry's because of it...and because he is a nice person and a reliable seller!
CU
 
hicpic

hicpic

Member
littlejacob said:
Bonjour
No!...no MW hlg series in cutter!
I asked them a week ago and they told me that they will maybe have some soon!
But I am pretty sure they will have some...they know that they could sell some to us...and that many of us still go for Jerry's because of it...and because he is a nice person and a reliable seller!
CU
Click to expand...
I thought Jerry would be cheaper, but it seems to be about the save in terms of price. Cutter actually wins out if you buy the kit (cob, holders, reflector).

Disclaimer: haven't bought from either yet, this impression is just from pricing things out. Would love to be confirmed or corrected.
 
Fastslappy

Fastslappy

Well-Known Member
check local on the meanwells if yer in USA the large electoral suppliers might have a slightly higher price but it is shipping that Kills saving $ on powersupplies the weight & size
if yer anywhere near one they have a pick-up window (will call)
I saved on meanies local & had them in one Day shipped for $6 ups cheaper than the toll bridge I'd cross to get them
 
littlejacob

littlejacob

Well-Known Member
Bonjour
Well I guess I will have to calculate a few things to be sure...I am in EU!
I will buy 8 or 10 cxb 3590 3500ºk 36V CD with 2 hlg-185-1400b or 2 hlg-240-1400b...???
I have to compare prices shipping costs and availability
Cheapest hlg-185-1400b I found here is 72 € 77 $...and 240-1400b 84 € 90 $
So you understand that 52.50 $ + 20 $ shipping is still cheaper for me...unless I find a cheapest price
CU
 
iceman3000

iceman3000

Well-Known Member
HI guys & gals
this will be my last post on this topic need to know what everyone thinks
working with a 4x10 space for lights. 3 side enclosure
24 cxb 3590 hlg driver 120 1400 (3) cobs or 185 (4) cobs 90 reflectors

(1) run 3 cob space 16 inches depth and 8 bars space 15 inches width that's 4x10

(2) run 3 cob space 16 inches depth and 8 bars space 12 inches width that's 4x8

(3) run 4 cob space 12 inches depth and 6 bars space 16 inches width that's 4x8

this is the last decision i have to make befor i order the sinks

thanks for any input on the matter
iceman3000
 
lumen-geek

lumen-geek

Well-Known Member
robincnn said:
Optics for COB

I posted some charts earlier here
https://www.rollitup.org/t/how-to-plot-ppf-chart-with-quantum-sensors-for-led-light-comparison.881113/
They give a good estimate. However the corner values were not correct as sensor has to be in vertical position and not aimed towards the light source.
Also no data for reflective areas.

Test setup
I had a better setup than last time and the Apogee sensor was kept vertical. No corrections have been made to the date. Raw data. Not multiplied or divided by any correction factor.
Open area measurements.
For reflective sides test 2X2.5 tent with small elevated platform with nice green canopy.:weed:
View attachment 3569939

Optics tested
1) No Optics
2) Kingbrite 80 lens 100mm
3) Kingbrite 120 lens 100mm
4) Ledil Stella FN14074_STELLA-HB CXA/B 3590 72 deg HighBay 93 %
5) Ledil Angelina F13838_ANGELINA-XW CXA/B 3590 90 deg Wide 94 %

Kingbrite new reflector was not available so may be next time.

Please feel free to add your review/opinion for any other lens you may have tried like 77mm glass or your own DIY reflector.

Edit:
I bought a sample of 90 degree 100mm glass lens on ebay and it was identical to Jerry's 120 lens. These Chinese lens may be little different between each sellers.
Use http://www.findchips.com/ to find who has optics/other parts in stock.
Click to expand...
Just thought I'd mention that Cutter.com has Ledil 90 and 120 degree lenses for only $4.24ea. I believe the part number is GL20 but I could be wrong about that. If you do a search for 78mm 90 degree lens at Cutter they will come up.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Thank you @robincnn and @Greengenes707 for hooking me up with a variety of reflectors and adapters to experiment with. Not sure this is the right place to post this but this thread is probably more up to date than mine.

This reflector test was done with a Vero29, pulsed at 20W. The measurements were taken with Apogee SQ-120 at a distance of 12", no reflective walls. The idea is just to compare the performance of each reflector. I made a baseline with the Vero29 bare. You can see in my tests that the reflectors are slightly tilted but it gets the point across anyway.

First tested was the $0.80 reflector from Kingbrite (KB-D82-90RF) 90 degree beam angle. It is aimed at replacing the $4-$10 Ledil F13838_ANGELINA-XW reflector. The reading directly below the COB increased by 52.6% compared to the bare reading.
2x2 grid Kingbrite KB-D82-90RF 90 degree.png


Then I painted the reflector with 2 layers of Rustoleum white high heat paint and the reading directly below the COB increased by 46% compared to the bare reading.
2x2 grid KB-D82-90RF 90 degree with Rustoleum heat paint 2 layers.png


Finally, the Ledil F13838_ANGELINA-XW, this reflector is about 94% efficient. The center reading increased by 53.6%
2x2 grid - Ledil F13838 Angelina XW 90 degree.png


So it looks like the Kingbrite reflector is very good quality reflective plastic (standard white plastic is not a great reflector on its own). Ledil states their Angelina reflectors are made from HRPC (hyper reflective polycarbonate) which is also UV and flame resistant. From this test, it looks like painting the reflectors slightly harms the performance and it looks like the generic reflector performs just as well as the name brand so if the Ledil is 94% efficient, I would estimate the Kingbrite reflector is 94% also.
 
Last edited:
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Thank you @robincnn and @Greengenes707 for hooking me up with a variety of reflectors and adapters to experiment with. Not sure this is the right place to post this but this thread is probably more up to date than mine.

This reflector test was done with a Vero29, pulsed at 20W. The measurements were taken with Apogee SQ-120 at a distance of 12", no reflective walls. The idea is just to compare the performance of each reflector. I made a baseline with the Vero29 bare. You can see in my tests that the reflectors are slightly tilted but it gets the point across anyway.

First tested was the $0.80 reflector from Kingbrite (KB-D82-90RF) 90 degree beam angle. It is aimed at replacing the $5-$10 Ledil F13838_ANGELINA-XW reflector. The reading directly below the COB increased by 52.6% compared to the bare reading.
View attachment 3583043


Then I painted the reflector with 2 layers of Rustoleum white high heat paint and the reading directly below the COB increased by 46% compared to the bare reading.
View attachment 3583044


Finally, the Ledil F13838_ANGELINA-XW, this reflector is about 94% efficient. The center reading increased by 53.6%
View attachment 3583045


So it looks like the Kingbrite reflector is very good quality reflective plastic (standard white plastic is not a great reflector on its own). Ledil states their Angelina reflectors are made from HRPC (hyper reflective polycarbonate) which is also UV and lame resistant. From this test, it looks like painting the reflectors slightly harms the performance and it looks like the generic reflector performs just as well as the name brand so if the Ledil is 94% efficient I would estimate the Kingbrite reflector is 94% also.
Click to expand...
Well this data closely matches and reinforces the data that Robincnn established a few pages back. Great work, Supra.

:clap:
 
lumen-geek

lumen-geek

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Thank you @robincnn and @Greengenes707 for hooking me up with a variety of reflectors and adapters to experiment with. Not sure this is the right place to post this but this thread is probably more up to date than mine.

This reflector test was done with a Vero29, pulsed at 20W. The measurements were taken with Apogee SQ-120 at a distance of 12", no reflective walls. The idea is just to compare the performance of each reflector. I made a baseline with the Vero29 bare. You can see in my tests that the reflectors are slightly tilted but it gets the point across anyway.

First tested was the $0.80 reflector from Kingbrite (KB-D82-90RF) 90 degree beam angle. It is aimed at replacing the $5-$10 Ledil F13838_ANGELINA-XW reflector. The reading directly below the COB increased by 52.6% compared to the bare reading.
View attachment 3583043


Then I painted the reflector with 2 layers of Rustoleum white high heat paint and the reading directly below the COB increased by 46% compared to the bare reading.
View attachment 3583044


Finally, the Ledil F13838_ANGELINA-XW, this reflector is about 94% efficient. The center reading increased by 53.6%
View attachment 3583045


So it looks like the Kingbrite reflector is very good quality reflective plastic (standard white plastic is not a great reflector on its own). Ledil states their Angelina reflectors are made from HRPC (hyper reflective polycarbonate) which is also UV and lame resistant. From this test, it looks like painting the reflectors slightly harms the performance and it looks like the generic reflector performs just as well as the name brand so if the Ledil is 94% efficient I would estimate the Kingbrite reflector is 94% also.
Click to expand...
Is that price of $0.80 for the KB reflector correct? Holy crap I'm glad you shared this info! I was thinking of going with either the Angelina reflectors or the Ledil 90 degree lenses, but I think I might go with the reflectors from Kingbrite just to save some money. I kinda like the idea of lenses though simply because they act as a protective cover for the LES of the chip. I'd be interested to see a test done with the lenses that fit the Angelina reflectors though too, to see if the 5-7% loss makes a big difference or not. I'd think it would help with possible center hotspot but would like to know if that's right. Either way it sounds like the KB reflector is the best value.
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
The ledil is reflecting more total light for sure that I see. Look all over.

There's a few ways to skin 5% difference if you think about it...
Mid bin with Angelina's
Or
Top bin with KB reflector.


Granted the top bin should put less heat through the heatsink. But the point is that using top reflectors or optics of any kind if you're going to use optics, is going to maximize the potential of the components...and possibly even the field of a better bins with less thorough total systems. Or just keep the edge from start to finish.


@SupraSPL I wonder about painting the outside of the reflector, to minimize the translucency/passthrough. I havent seen the KB's yet, but always wondered about ledils. PAR meter shows no pass through.
 
alesh

alesh

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
The ledil is reflecting more total light for sure that I see. Look all over.

There's a few ways to skin 5% difference if you think about it...
Mid bin with Angelina's
Or
Top bin with KB reflector.


Granted the top bin should put less heat through the heatsink. But the point is that using top reflectors or optics of any kind if you're going to use optics, is going to maximize the potential of the components...and possibly even the field of a better bins with less thorough total systems. Or just keep the edge from start to finish.


@SupraSPL I wonder about painting the outside of the reflector, to minimize the translucency/passthrough. I havent seen the KB's yet, but always wondered about ledils. PAR meter shows no pass through.
Click to expand...
I'm wondering how would these number look like after a year of use.
 
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