Let's talk lighting schedules (12/12, 11/13, etc)

HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
Alright, so I was having this discussion with a friend, and I'd love a group input on this... We were getting into simulating real outdoor conditions, and basically, how the sun does not simply kick on and off. From first light of dawn to full sunrise, you're not going to be at peak, like you would be when, say, an HPS kicks on... My friend likened it to being woken up with a really loud alarm clock and having to do pushups right out of bed.

So, how do you ease into it, are you robbing yourself of anything by doing it differently? I'm still in the process of building my room, but I've been doing a bit of planning, and I'm going to go a little unconventional for my lights. I'm going to go with an induction, and two LED's at the sides. I was considering having the two LED's turn on 30-45 minutes before the induction, and have the induction turn off 30 minutes before the LED's, to simulate what's actually happening with a sunrise and sunset. Is this completely crazy? Will it stress the plants more than a shock wakeup?
 
F

fuzzyl

Well-Known Member
sound's interesting and I'm sure it will work, better than full blown 12/12 @ 100%? who knows... but isn't at least one point of going indoors is to create the 'best' environment suitable to grow the best buds possible so therefore going full blown from minute 1 of the day will create better buds because the plant really wishes outdoors it could have that but it can't so it's held back due to it? if you keep crossing the strain over and over under the same 100% conditions won't it adapt to it and use it as a positive to create better buds? I dunno that's just how it think of it.. but I don't know it's just a guess
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
HockeyBeard said:
Alright, so I was having this discussion with a friend, and I'd love a group input on this... We were getting into simulating real outdoor conditions, and basically, how the sun does not simply kick on and off. From first light of dawn to full sunrise, you're not going to be at peak, like you would be when, say, an HPS kicks on... My friend likened it to being woken up with a really loud alarm clock and having to do pushups right out of bed.

So, how do you ease into it, are you robbing yourself of anything by doing it differently? I'm still in the process of building my room, but I've been doing a bit of planning, and I'm going to go a little unconventional for my lights. I'm going to go with an induction, and two LED's at the sides. I was considering having the two LED's turn on 30-45 minutes before the induction, and have the induction turn off 30 minutes before the LED's, to simulate what's actually happening with a sunrise and sunset. Is this completely crazy? Will it stress the plants more than a shock wakeup?
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So completely fucking crazy. Pretty sure out job as growers is to give the room the optimal amount of the best out side day ever. I'm not sure about stress like u mentions, but slow growth and lack of everything about creating optimal enviournment comes into mind. This all being said if i even under stand the post. so i might just be full of shit. Have a fun grow sometimes experimenting can be fun. Some times....
 
HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't have anything solid to back it up, haven't found any data, but he was saying, that essentially, the plant ends up taking about an hour or so to wake up anyhow because of that shock, not being woken up gradually. I haven't found any data to back it up, one way or another though. Just looking for some opinions on the matter, from people who think outside the box. I know many people like to copy what is known to work, I'm just in a bit more of a unique position as to where I'm able to experiment slightly.

I was under the impression that, yes, the goal is to create the most optimal environment, but still try to emulate natural conditions. Now, someone growing with HPS/MH can't really do this, or even try, so I think that's why it would be considered so crazy. Doesn't most of the magic happen during the night, anyhow?
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Interesting, would like to see the results but that would take doing back-to-back runs of clones from the same mother to really see if there was any difference. I agree with not necessarily trying to simulate all outdoor environment variables, but do agree with easing the plants in and out of any situation, like for instance reducing the lights over a few days when flipping, giving them time to settle when transplanting, taking clones etc. This may not be cray at all, just difficult to measure. For example one thing I'll be playing with that at least seems to have some merit/science to it, is 730nm initiators, giving them 730nm far-red for about 10 minutes after lights-out. It's a little complicated to explain but there's plenty of articles/data on it, basically the idea is to speed up the lights-off "sleep" mode that would normally take the plants about 2 hours to get into, reducing it to 10-15 minutes. Inda-Gro has had these initiators for a while on their Induction pontoon fixtures. This I think is something that should speed up the flowering process, some claim it takes a week off flowering...
 
Da Mann

Da Mann

Well-Known Member
I am guessing you have seen the advertisement for a new LED light system. That is what it does. Starts with low light of certain colors and starts adding other colors to full intensity. Then at shut down it does the same thing.
 
HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Interesting, would like to see the results but that would take doing back-to-back runs of clones from the same mother to really see if there was any difference. I agree with not necessarily trying to simulate all outdoor environment variables, but do agree with easing the plants in and out of any situation, like for instance reducing the lights over a few days when flipping, giving them time to settle when transplanting, taking clones etc. This may not be cray at all, just difficult to measure. For example one thing I'll be playing with that at least seems to have some merit/science to it, is 730nm initiators, giving them 730nm far-red for about 10 minutes after lights-out. It's a little complicated to explain but there's plenty of articles/data on it, basically the idea is to speed up the lights-off "sleep" mode that would normally take the plants about 2 hours to get into, reducing it to 10-15 minutes. Inda-Gro has had these initiators for a while on their Induction pontoon fixtures. This I think is something that should speed up the flowering process, some claim it takes a week off flowering...
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Yes, that far red after lights out simulates that spectrum you get at the end of the sunset, I know exactly what you're referring to. I was also told that it is also there at first light as well. I've seen the ones you refer to, and am intrigued by them, and makes perfect sense to me.

Da Mann said:
I am guessing you have seen the advertisement for a new LED light system. That is what it does. Starts with low light of certain colors and starts adding other colors to full intensity. Then at shut down it does the same thing.
Click to expand...
No, I had not seen that. My friend is just really into a lot of the metaphysical aspects of things, such as sound healing (but not necessarily with the plants) and lunar cycles (although that's not as much metaphysical), and that's how the conversation came up. Which set of lights is doing that?
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Da Mann said:
I am guessing you have seen the advertisement for a new LED light system. That is what it does. Starts with low light of certain colors and starts adding other colors to full intensity. Then at shut down it does the same thing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there are many ways to go about it and I'm seeing more and more of these initiators off-the-shelf. Myself, I'll eventually build some DIY's, unless I see some proven, quality off-the-shelf initiators at reasonable cost.

There's a panel that does what you mention out of the box (EShine) but I don't think it has these 730nm initiators and the panels are expensive. It can be programmed to behave like the sun, but too much money imo right now. I think there will be more and more available as this LED market matures, it can be easily done with LED tech.
 
HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
I'm also considering doing a DIY panel, I've got a few years of electronics knowledge going to waste, and feel that am more than properly trained to build a couple. I'm going to head over to the DIY section and check out some of what's out there. I'm looking at the Hans panel, and I don't see anything too far red like that. Glad that it's not totally crazy to conceive, and that it's actually trying to be done in real world application... Now, giving measurable results, on the other hand, totally different story. I had planned on running a couple different lighting options to experiment in those ways, though, so stay tuned for my first journal in a monthish.
 
Squidbilly

Squidbilly

Well-Known Member
I don't see any benefit to 'easing' them into the light. If there was a benefit you would see big grow ops and people in the agriculture industry doing it.

Were not really trying to duplicate nature indoors, were trying to trick it.
 
HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
Would you, though? I feel that those huge ops have more to lose, and are way more invested into doing something the same way they always have, the way they know produces tangible results that they can plan on.
 
J

junglejim3

Member
My reading has shown that 12on 12off is the simplest and best .
I do believe that veg fluoros are great, and use them with my HID's
before flowering.
I grow great smoke , probably would not want stronger.
 
Guerrilla OP

Guerrilla OP

Active Member
HockeyBeard said:
Would you, though? I feel that those huge ops have more to lose, and are way more invested into doing something the same way they always have, the way they know produces tangible results that they can plan on.
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Yes defiantly those big operations employ scientists to study things just like this a minuscule increase in health or yield to those guys can mean an extra 20 million dollars or more each crop... They have the facilities and resources to experiment all they want...
 
GOLDBERG71

GOLDBERG71

Well-Known Member
Funny I was thinking about length of day for other reasons. If my lights are on they'll be running full throttle. But what I've started thinking about is how we decrease from 18/6 12/12 11/13. Everywhere I've read and practiced keeping the lights on at the same time throughout the grow.
But in nature as daylight decreases you lose light from both sunrise as well as sunset. So what I'm going to try the next grow is keeping the lights on at the same time for 18/6 and for 12/12. But the last 2/3 weeks I usually drop it to 11/13. The next time I'm going to try breaking down to 11.5/12.5 and then 11/13. But for these last two decreases I'm going to delay lights on by 15 minutes and turning them off 15 minutes earlier. To equal the loss of 1/2 hour each time. This would be closer to natural environment. Any thoughts. Or has anyone else thought about or tried this???
 
AdamBlack760

AdamBlack760

Well-Known Member
My light dep green house I purposely pull tarp at 7 am and 7 pm because I want the hard on/off. I believe that it helps with kick start flower production.
 
HockeyBeard

HockeyBeard

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the input everyone. Sounds like the idea we were discussing is mostly stoner talk... So, like, what if we...
 
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