Let's talk serious SCROG

Those are beautiful pics of a SOG grow, thanks for the bud porn!

People interested in SCROG usually want a finite number of plants, most of us are medical growers and have legal plant limits that allow us to do this without repercussions. If you are not a medical grower the benefit is pretty much the same, i know in Vt if you have less than 3 plants the penalty is a fine and maybe some probation, 3 plants or more is a 2-5 year prison sentence.

If neither of these conditions apply to you SOG is more likely the way to grow on a large scale, single light source SOG setups don't fair as well because of overall light penetration, the bottoms of the stalks get limited light and the plants on the sides of the light get very tall and "lenky". When using a single light SOG is unmanagable at best

Again, thank you for the bud porn but this thread is for SCROG growers, now go find a pic of a big ol' SCROG and come show us so we can drool!

profgrow said:

Those are beautiful pics of a SOG grow, thanks for the bud porn but this isn't a SOG thread.

People interested in SCROG usually want a finite number of plants, most of us are medical growers and have legal plant limits that allow us to do this without repercussions. If you are not a medical grower the benefit is pretty much the same, i know in Vt if you have less than 3 plants the penalty is a fine and maybe some probation, 3 plants or more is a 2-5 year prison sentence.

If neither of these conditions apply to you SOG is more likely the way to grow for a large scale grow, smaller sog setups don't fair as well because of overall light penetration, the bottoms of the stalks get limited light and the plants on the sides of the light get very tall and "lenky". When using a single light source SOG falls short simple as that.

Again, thank you for the bud porn but lets keep this thread to SCROG and growers trying to perfect this method, there are literally thousands of threads about SOG if that is your interest.

Click to expand...

You are a "Pro" spoken with etiquette.

Thank you sir!

I feel i have been given a responsibility to pass on this knowledge for other small scale indoor growers. There are so many of us out there, it really amazes me!

When I first learned about scrog i was doing LST grows and getting decent results, my closet was filled with bushes and yields were great. The problem i kept running into was late in flower all my tops would fall down and i would have to use string to tie them up. sometimes this would damage the flowers and sometimes it just wouldn't work at all, theres nothing more disappointing than having a 6 gram dry bud that only has trichomes on one side because it was falling over.

I started to run my LST grows with string up in a criss/cross fashion to hold the flowers up that way but still had the issue of light wasted on bottom branches, half my harvests were tiny "popcorn" sized nugs with no sugars on them at all.

At this point I was almost doing a scrog but missing a few very important steps, in all honesty I thought i had come up with something new. After some severe digging i found a thread started by this guy in the late 90s, i figured it was out of date info but i read it anyway. I was amazed at how wrong i had been, before i read that thread i didn't really understand light penetration, lighting producing a U shape with a "sweet spot" the same shape as the bulb. Once i understood this concept it was all over, I started making U shaped canopies and my gram to watt ratio flourished! In a standard grow .5-1.0 grams per watt was ideal but not always attainable, after i learned how to properly mimic the light source with my canopy my gram to watt ratio jumped to 1.0-1.5 and even 2.0 in some cases, yes, i have pulled 700 grams from a 400 watt light using scrog, yes, every bud was uniform size/shape, yes, every bud was dripping with trichs and the whole plant was mature on the same day!

As soon as I had perfected this method i couldn't stop hearing about scrog, it was like the whole world figured it out at the same time I did. Budbook.org started posting about SCROG furiously and anything i had missed was filled in. I literally cannot afford to go back to standard grows, sog or lst, my patient has sever needs for chronic and debilitating pain, she can smoke up-wards of 4 oz a month and because Vt is only allowed to flower 2 plants at a time i needed to produce at the very least 12oz per 3 month cycle (I use a 90 day flowering strain for her). To get 12oz from 2 plants on a regular basis is close to impossible but this method makes it attainable.

On a side note, I'm looking for seeds from a clone only strain, i know that sounds dumb but if anyone knows a way of getting "Blue Dream" as a seed I would love to hear about it. I have seen "Blue Dream" in action and I'm pretty sure i need to have it in my "quiver" of strains, currently i am only running "afghan skunk" and "Violator kush", I am very careful what strains I add to my collection as i don't have time for "duds" but if any of you have tasted blue dream you know, it needs to be part of any indoor growers rotation and acquiring clones in my state is close to impossible.
Again, if anyone has any info it would be more than appreciated.

Keep those SCROG questions coming, I have barely scratched the surface but specific questions are much easier to handle than writing an entire book on the subject. I would also love to hear from more scrog growers about your experience/experiments with this grow style.

i understand this is scrog thread but saying sog is unmanegable is wrong i have done everthing from supercropping to topping and doin a few lst at the moment and out of all of them being strain dependant i really wasnt impressed sure i topped got up to 6 top colas but there weren;t close to weight as a untouched plant as for supercropping sure tons of bud sites but again small and not as much weight
so i come to the conclusion supercropping a mother plant is the way to go topping eh up to the grower

i like the scrog set up might give her a go on some outdoor next year
i have bin experimenting with clones and have bin able to naturally get 2 tops on a plant here a few pics of a couple clones taken aug 27th

Interesting.

To get 2 tops like that did you just top them early or did you fimm them, just curios.

I totally agree with you DrFever. Letting a plant "do it's thing" is really the best way for them to grow, they developed over millions of years to grow that way and can produce more flowers by growing naturally with just sun and rain.

If I, or any other grower that uses scrog had a larger area to work with and multiple light sources, letting a plant go through it's natural life cycle would be ideal. I know many growers that feel anything but a Xmas tree-shaped plant is an abomination! but alas, they have 1k sq ft grow rooms and are running 20k watts of lighting, sometimes on tracks to expose all side of the plant to the light during the day. Most SCROG growers don't have that luxury. We are tucked away in a closet or a small grow tent with anything from a single 250 watt to, at the very best, a couple 600s. SCROG is designed to make the best use of light in a small area, its not the same as super cropping or LST in that these methods still have low-hanging vegetation. Top flowers not only don't get very big but lower flowers suck the energy out of them and produce very little as well, I will say, a super-cropped or lst'd plant outdoors will yield like none other, it really can be amazing to see a farmer pull 1-2 lb dry off a single plant... I'm rambling.

In a SCROG grow there is no low hanging vegetation, it is all trimmed off before or in the first few weeks of flower, nothing to hold the buds back that are exposed to light. What you end up with is a single plant that grows like an SOG, many large buds, all getting the same amount of light and growing to be about the same size. Each bud above the canopy will be close in size to a main cola on a traditionally grown plant. I will post some pics of my current grow as soon as something substantial starts up (currently 9 days into flowering a 90 day strain) then you can see what we are talking about. If you are too impatient to wait for that (i know i would be) check out this link, a great grower showing off his skills (the music gets stuck in your head, be careful)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4FAqd8-Xmw

Right on great post's. Great info. Been leaning towards scrog more and more every grow.
My question is this, I'm building 3 tables right now@ 24x32" for a individual plant. Does this area seem sufficient?
Im also heading out to pick up another light. I keep seeing everyone running smaller scale scrogs stay at 600 and below. Is a 1000w overkill for this size of a table. I'd like to only have to run 2 lights for the three tables in a L shape? Constantly moving from early stages in flower under a 400w to a 1000w the last 30 days or so. Just curious how this is going to work or if im going to big for no reason. Thanks for the help

Great questions!

24x32 is a nice size for a 600w, 1000 would be overkill but 2x1000s lighting 3 tables may be the only way to go if thats the setup you are going for.

2x600w will cover about 24 sq ft of space, the problem with 600s is that to get the same amount of lumens as a 1kw you need to run them closer to the plant and that will effect the edges of the Scrog that are farthest from the source.

Here is my personal suggestion for this setup:

Flat screen on bottom and angle the side screens towards the light.... you know what, I'm making' a diagram!

(footsteps thump in to the distance)

(a few min later)

Ok, back, try this-

By the way, the reason I suggest 600w vs 1k is about heat, 1k require so much more ventilation and need to be 3ft or so from the plant. 600 watt run a lot cooler and can be placed much closer to the tops to supply the same amount of lumens as a 1kw. most growers that i know that picked up a 1k watt used it until it became an issue then went back to 600s.

thats the way i grow let them do there thing final heights 60" under 10,000 watts of power giving me plenty of light penetration getting 90 wet gram buds on bottom of plants near soil

Got it and thanks for the insight. It seems scrog is a one room veg to flower style for the larger trays at least. I've been so stuck on perpetual grows that i wasn't paying attention. But i guess with higher yields it makes up for it. And just a thought... i'll probably change up the game plan and run a single tray with 2-3 plant's under a 65 by 24" with two 600's. I've been eyeing those xxxl magnum reflectors lately... they may be the call. Thanks again for the insight. Saves me money and space for some experiments lol

Perpetual grows are great! but ya, it helps to have multiple rooms or at least several tents to offset the veg.

It is possible to do a perpetual grow with scrog it just requires supercropping or LSTing during veg as opposed to vegging directly into the screen, when you are ready to flower you just put your LST'D plant under the screen and use twist ties (plastic not paper covering on the wire) to train the plant to the screen, clean out all the veg under the canopy and keep making adjustments during the first week of flower, the nodes will branch off and give you nice solid buds coming straight out of the screen from otherwise barren looking branches.

Subbed. . .

well profgrow what you think about this pic )

That is an absolutely beautiful example of Lst/scrog. Almost brings a tear to my eye!

do you know how long that took to veg/train?

Truly a fine example!

i took that pic off another thread but my guess would be 4 -6 weeks ??? no matter what thats extreme LST'ing kinda like what i am doing at present

I do perpetual, rotations monthly. I veg in a separate room under a 400 mh. No screen in there, i LST everything 6-8" above the lip of the the pots. After a month and a half of veg they go into the left side of my flower room, under a 400hps and a screen. After a month, they slide to the right side under a 600. My buckets sit on a drainage tray on wheels, and the screen attaches to the buckets rather than the walls, so the whole thing can move easily.

Subscribed.

I grew SOG for many years, but due to space limitations and other issues. I have switched to DWC ScrOG. Having just moved I will be setting up a 3'x'3 area in my laundry room. The actual screen will be 3'x2', need the other foot to squeeze in there to work . Equipment will arrive this coming monday, nothing to fancy as funds are low, Will be a 1 plant DWC, 2 buckets one being a resivoir.

The plastic coating on the frame of that Lst/scrog reminded me of an important subject we haven't touched on, Screen styles!

Let's start with standard chicken wire pros and cons:

Pro- its cheap as dirt and available anywhere

Con- its very flexible and often needs to be tied down in the middle to keep the plant from pushing it up.

Pro- its very fexable... wait thats a con, w/e its a pro too, flexibility makes it easy to manipulate to the shape of your room/lighting system (think double U shaped setup under 2 lights)

Con- exposed metals are a rust hazard, rust and any heavy metals in the screen can damage plants, effect PH and are very effective at holding heat in the room.

Ok, i ran out of pros for chicken wire, its not the best route to go in my opinion, the dangers seem to out weight the pluses, nothing hurts worse than having a half done crop that get torched by a bad setup.

Now lets talk about temporary fence netting:

Pro- also cheap, can be procured almost anywhere.

Con- needs to be tightly strung and tied down in multiple places to keep the net in the shape you want.

Pro- waterproof and never spoils, just clean it with antibacterial soap between grows.

Con- some plastics give off a gas at higher temperatures, this can kill a harvest if temp gets too high near the netting (this is only an issue early in the grow while your lights are closest to the canopy)

All in all fence netting is a cheap and effective way of SCROGing, some drawbacks but those are made up by the cost.

Now we will go over my personal favorite; plastic coated heavy wire shelf material:

Pro- hard plastic coating on a rigid metal frame gives you waterproofing with a very tense surface area, in most situations this does not need to be tied down.

Con- its heavy, if not secured properly it can fall and break your stalks

Pro- generally has smaller dimension openings, allowing for more tops than the larger chicken wire or fence netting.

Con- it is considerably harder to come by, i got mine from a small greenhouse setup i bought for around 30 bucks, this gave me around 18 sq ft of the material and a bunch of other crap i didn't need- metal frame tubes etc.

Other types of screens i have seen used but not experimented with:

Nylon netting: this can be picked up at most army surplus stores or hunting supply stores

Industrial steel grid: expensive but solid, last screen you will ever buy kinda thing

Cloth string net: Mold hazard! stay away from using any cloth/absorbent material in your grow room.

Fishing filament: I would just worry about the pressure from the plant growing cutting the stalk at any point, thin nets can be dangerous.

Trellis nets: these i have seen often in single plant semi-scrogs, they are sold at any garden store, they look like a tomato cage with a coiled net on top, i think they are used for decorative gardening.

So ya, there's that topic, just stuff to think about while building your net, just because it has holes doesn't make it the right thing for scrog... huh huh holes.

ak.fortyseven said:

Subscribed.

I grew SOG for many years, but due to space limitations and other issues. I have switched to DWC ScrOG. Having just moved I will be setting up a 3'x'3 area in my laundry room. The actual screen will be 3'x2', need the other foot to squeeze in there to work . Equipment will arrive this coming monday, nothing to fancy as funds are low, Will be a 1 plant DWC, 2 buckets one being a resivoir.

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Can't wait to see your grow, link your grow journal in this thread when you get it going.

Mike@420 said:

I do perpetual, rotations monthly. I veg in a separate room under a 400 mh. No screen in there, i LST everything 6-8" above the lip of the the pots. After a month and a half of veg they go into the left side of my flower room, under a 400hps and a screen. After a month, they slide to the right side under a 600. My buckets sit on a drainage tray on wheels, and the screen attaches to the buckets rather than the walls, so the whole thing can move easily.

Click to expand...

Excellent system, i would definitely suggest that setup to growers that have the extra room to move it.