Let's talk serious SCROG

stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
Hey stealthy, see all those new growing shoots under your screen,.. all those skinny stemmed fuckers racing for the screen. If that were me, I would chop all of those. All buds above the screen! They are soo skinny they will never amount to anything more than more trimming work for fluffy buds.

This is especially the case with lower power HID and cfl bulbs. just a suggestion. All these scrog shots make me want to hang my screen up just to take some pictures but I am waiting for 3 ore 600 watt MH bulbs to arrive before I activate my second row of lights.

Looking good guys!
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I agree with what your saying but am wanting to keep the little stems lower down just to see what they amount too.. I am sure I wont go short on buds :) :) as its all for personal use.. This Harvest should last me a fair few months :) - STELTHY :leaf:
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I hear ya. Like I said, it's tempting to leave them on there. But remember, all the carbs used to grow those little fluffy buds hanging out in the shade could have gone to the nice dense buds basking in the light above.

Fucking love that trunk though! That thing is going to bang out some serious buds
 
luv2grow

luv2grow

Well-Known Member
i think he's talking about topping it. He said he had to push it along. Kinnda threw me off. I've read alot about ppl doing the super crop thing. which from what i gather is topping the pant at each bud site that's through the screen which equals 2-4 tops where there used to be one.
 
GreatwhiteNorth

GreatwhiteNorth

Global Moderator
Staff member
luv2grow said:
i think he's talking about topping it. He said he had to push it along. Kinnda threw me off. I've read alot about ppl doing the super crop thing. which from what i gather is topping the pant at each bud site that's through the screen which equals 2-4 tops where there used to be one.
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Supercropping is not topping - the procedure is very simple, choose a point on the plant that you would like to "stall" growth for 3-5 days & gently pinch the stem until you feel it "crunch". The damage will repair itself very quickly, but in the mean time the secondary growth has time to catch up to the top.
Not something I would do late in flower, but I use it extensively with LST in veg.
And I am still confused why he's topping above the screen.
Prof - any input?
 
H

HghFlyrJD1

Active Member
profgrow said:
Alright! someone with viable questions! I'm super excited to share this info with someone who wants to know.

First off, the bottom pic is not a true scrog, its more of what i call and "industrial scrog". This method takes multiple plants and fimm's them (fimming is a form of topping where you get 4 tops as opposed to one) so you have 4 top plants about 1 per 1.5 feet and each plant takes over its own little canopy space.

SCROG veg times very based on how big you want your scrog, I stop vegging when i have filled most of the screen, a few gaps and about 2-4 inches around the edge of the screen, after 24 hours of dark there will about 7 days in 12/12 that the plants "stretch" while flowering, during this first 7 day period take the tops that are 2-3 inches out of the screen and fill in the closest gaps, at this point most of your plant matter will be horizontal to the light and flower nodes will be better exposed to the light source, once this is done, clear out most of your undergrowth, large fan leaves and smaller branches that aren't getting any light can be removed so that all the energy of the plant goes into the tops that are exposed. During the next 2-3 weeks flowering shoots will rise above the screen, we want this, but if fan leaves start to develop above the screen and are covering other node sites cut them. This sounds time consuming but its really a couple min every week or so and your yield will be that much greater, the whole concept behind scrog is to have as much flower exposed to light as possible while controlling the distance of the canopy from the light for consistency. Some buds will be taller than others, if they get out of control try to train them down diagonally into a gap (if you have any) in the screen. Training buds completely horizontally will cause half the bud to not develop trichomes, and thats bad, moisture can also be an issue, make sure the under side of the canopy is well ventilated.

before we discuss your grow area i must ask, are you talking about ft or meters? I'm going to assume meters because i get the feeling I'm the only person on this site from America lol! 1.5x1.2 meters could accommodate 4 plants but it would be tight, you would only need to veg for 3-4 weeks, the top pic on this site is my current grow, its roughly 1 meter by .7 per side and as you can see, i have one plant per side, I vegged for around 6 weeks to fill this space. Really, you can veg as long or short as you want, i stop when i fill the space but i have seen people let they're tops go a foot or more through the screen before flowering, this seems like a waste to me but growing is so personal, who am I to say whats right? Thats not a hair i try to split.

Last but not least, if SCROG is too intimidating do what i did, start with LST, low stress training ties the tops down to control the canopy that way, you get a bunch of tops and a bunch of nugs! for me LST was just a gateway to scrog, i loved being able to move my plants more freely with LST but i find that i would rather have a better controlled canopy and light penetration than a big bushy plant that i can turn easily.

Thanks for the questions, keep em' coming, anything I can't answer i will research and figure out how to answer!

And now... SOME BUD PORN!



Big thanks to LBH for the gnarly bud pron!
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LBH is a great friend and great grower..Rhode Island stand up!
 
hypocritisizer

hypocritisizer

Member
GreatwhiteNorth said:
Supercropping is not topping - the procedure is very simple, choose a point on the plant that you would like to "stall" growth for 3-5 days & gently pinch the stem until you feel it "crunch". The damage will repair itself very quickly, but in the mean time the secondary growth has time to catch up to the top.
Not something I would do late in flower, but I use it extensively with LST in veg.
And I am still confused why he's topping above the screen.
Prof - any input?
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure he’s planning on basically topping the plant at every node site which is greater than two inches above the screen. Not super cropping from what he described in the vid.

luv2grow said:
i think he's talking about topping it. He said he had to push it along. Kinnda threw me off. I've read alot about ppl doing the super crop thing. which from what i gather is topping the pant at each bud site that's through the screen which equals 2-4 tops where there used to be one.
Click to expand...
I’m sure that’s his mind set; more colas. I wonder if he's gonna see a yield difference as far as weight goes. I hear that much trimming that early in flower can really hinder bud development?
 
luv2grow

luv2grow

Well-Known Member
GreatwhiteNorth said:
Supercropping is not topping - the procedure is very simple, choose a point on the plant that you would like to "stall" growth for 3-5 days & gently pinch the stem until you feel it "crunch". The damage will repair itself very quickly, but in the mean time the secondary growth has time to catch up to the top.
Not something I would do late in flower, but I use it extensively with LST in veg.
And I am still confused why he's topping above the screen.
Prof - any input?
Click to expand...
yeah got it. I must have found some bad info. Thanks for the insight.
in the vid he did say it was the first day of the switch to flower. I saw a vid awhile back of someone doing this about a week before switching but no follow up vid. Might be worth a shot on some strains with alot of stretch.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I would never ever top a plant when its in flower. Your basically fucking with the distribution of the growth hormone auxin in addition to throwing off the balance of production and utilization (plant growth) of carbohydrates. All this can be stressful to a plant. After the first week of flower I don't do much trimming and training at all. Just let them do there thing. The time to manipulate your plants is in veg and the first week of flower.

Just as an FYI, myself, and other growers I know, have had problems with hermied plants when you aggresively trim immdeitely before and during the stretch. For this reason, I have adopted a mandatory two day "un-stressing" period between my lollipopping of the under-story and the time that I flip to 12/12 (well actually 13/11 but that is a technique for a different thread).
 
Kevo

Kevo

Active Member
Hey Professor I am in the middle of my first SCROG actually at the tail end of the grow. I am growing master kush 4 plants in a 3'x6' screen 2 600 hps lights 75 F 50% RH constant I used GH Flora series 1200ppm 5.7 - 6.0 ph. They were flipped on 8/9. Here is my concern, all of the buds are very streatched or airy there is no density to them. They look like there is a light leak but there are none. I have just cut back the nutts to what they refer to as rippen but it is basically all grow and a little micro and the ppm is 850. from what I can gather they have about 2 to 3 weeks left. Any ideas on what is happening? Prior to yesterday (solution change) I was running about 1250 ppm with a higher amount of N and P. Do you reduce your ppm at the end of the flowering stage? What causes the bulking up of the bud vs the growing of the bud. Thanks in advance.
Kevo
 
mike91sr

mike91sr

Well-Known Member
Bigger screen means more yield(hopefully) but longer veg unless you put more plants. Bigger also needs more light coverage
 
thunderbay

thunderbay

Well-Known Member
Prof....you know you think you've thought of it all but.....never I guess. I live in the country, gonna try outside this spring, so I have no issue with neighbors but my health lady don't smoke and has a job that drops randomly. 2 questions, can you drop dirty by breathing fumes from growing plants and have you ever heard of odor eliminating lights, if so do they work. Here's what I'm talking about.

Fresh² Odor Eliminating Light
I ran across this article on odor eating lights (cfl) and was wondering if there was any info out there on them. The science seems sound but sounds weird to say my lights eat my odor.....

http://www.fresh2.com/
 
luv2grow

luv2grow

Well-Known Member
Kevo said:
Hey Professor I am in the middle of my first SCROG actually at the tail end of the grow. I am growing master kush 4 plants in a 3'x6' screen 2 600 hps lights 75 F 50% RH constant I used GH Flora series 1200ppm 5.7 - 6.0 ph. They were flipped on 8/9. Here is my concern, all of the buds are very streatched or airy there is no density to them. They look like there is a light leak but there are none. I have just cut back the nutts to what they refer to as rippen but it is basically all grow and a little micro and the ppm is 850. from what I can gather they have about 2 to 3 weeks left. Any ideas on what is happening? Prior to yesterday (solution change) I was running about 1250 ppm with a higher amount of N and P. Do you reduce your ppm at the end of the flowering stage? What causes the bulking up of the bud vs the growing of the bud. Thanks in advance.
Kevo
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your just using grow and micro?
Shouldn't it be flora bloom and micro since the flora grow is a veg. nuet? I Just watched a cycle of two kush strains start to finish with the gh nuets and they were some of the densest buds i have ever seen.
anyways im curious since im about to switch over to GH.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
Great questions, now we're cooking with gas!

I will try to respond to them without quotes because I don't want an entire page of replies and I'm sure Legallyflying will want to put his 2 cents in so I will try to leave him room on the page :)

First off, the master kush issue from Kevo;

Without seeing it this is a hard one to tell. To me it sounds like the nuted are low, some Kushes are sensitive but I generally try to blast 2k ppm from the get go and if I see tip burn I dial it back. This can be a dangerous strategy but it works for me, you just gotta stay on top of it, first sign of browning tips (not just yellowing) and I reel it in. I'm unfortunately not familiar with your nutes so that may be a good dosage but in my experience 2k is ideal for most compounds. They also may fill out during the last week of flower, there are several strains that come to mind that I have seen not getting thick until the last couple weeks "the ultimate" from Barney's farm is one of them, looks like cotton candy til about week 8.
If you know a light leak isn't the issue thats great but in my experience temporary light pollution shouldn't cause a problem really, I have jacked grows up to no end with light cycle issues (power outages and a fun thing with a faulty timer) and they bounced back with nice dense buds, I'm not saying thats your issue at all, just figured I would throw that out there as it came up. This is not saying "do whatever with lights woohoo!" just that lights going off a few hours late for a day or whatever isn't something to panic about.

Master kush does have skunk in it, my afghan skunks are a 12 week flower and don't get thick until week 10, just a thought.
To answer your nute question, I am a very "light and dark" grower, I blast nutes hard then stop all together when I flush, hydro gets 2 weeks and soil gets 3. There are arguments on why to do this and why not to do this, in my experience; trying to re-create more natural conditions with nutes and lights isn't actually very efficient for plants. Marijuana evolved to use the seasons and decomposition if dying plant matter to reproduce, it reacts to its environment based on its needs, if you drop nutes quickly it will "flip some biological switches" telling it summer is over and it needs to get all the nutrients it possibly can to develop seed, at this point it eats its self, it does it in the wild as well, if you let a plant go past the point of ideal harvest it will drain its nutrients from its leaves and eventually die from frost bite after trying to throw its last pistals as most are dead at this point.

To answer Thunderbay's question;
The only way to get thc into your system detectably is to give it access to your blood stream, this can happen from inhaling its vapors/smoke or touching a plant with open wounds (I know, gross). Being around growing plants shouldn't make a person test positive but the less they come in contact with them the better.

The bulbs you linked are air fresheners, put an ordinary air freshener or micro filter next to a skunk, thats about how effective they would be in cutting down on grow room smells :D
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I don't answer nute questions unless there is a problem. I run botanicare pure blend pro and liquid karma. And kelp, and bushmaster, oh yeah, and liquid light, or and this hardwood extract stuff, and beneficial tea during flower. Anything else? Zone during veg.

One thing I never use..molasses or other sweetner products.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
abrownmn said:
Let me rephrase, i have no idea why i asked it like that...im growing in a bathtub, 5 plants or so under a 400w light...would scrog be a viable option or should i try something else?
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5 plants is honestly alot for a 400 watt scrog, I mean, its doable but start flowering like... right now, a screen would only support your canopy at this point, I don't know how big your plants are but a 400w doesn't have alot of coverage so if you were to scrog things would be pretty tight with much vegging.
 
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