Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
You come here for advice right?
Lightning help for non-weed setup
- Thread starter eLod
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Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Don't build a 6ft long frame, dude. You'll fucking kick yourself for it. Trust me and anyone else who wants to chime in.
Split the DC side right at the driver, I don't give a fuck really how you do it. It's parallel wiring anyways. But not splitting it into 2 fixtures cause there's only one driver is no excuse. It should be remotely mounted anyways and not on the frame itself.
Split the DC side right at the driver, I don't give a fuck really how you do it. It's parallel wiring anyways. But not splitting it into 2 fixtures cause there's only one driver is no excuse. It should be remotely mounted anyways and not on the frame itself.
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@Airwalker16 sry i didn't mean to be disrespectful, i was just articulating my thought process, obviously it's wrong, thatswhy i'm asking, i didn't mean to contradict you, or suggest i know better. i may have used the wrong words, by solid i have only meant easier to build and lay out for me, but i am sure by digging a bit i can manage whatever wiring. i am already thinking about doing 3 frames, i think that's the sweat spot.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
All I can say is save yourself the headache and at least do 2.
@Airwalker16 understood, as i said i am planning on 3, the 6 ft length is nicely divided into 3 areas (1-1 boxes, 1 propagator space), so i think it makes the most sense. so right now i am researching what kind of heatsinking do i need. is alu u channel enough? should i find something better? the L and U profiles are easy to find locally, the heatsink variants (especially in the right sizes) is hard to find in europe.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
That inbetween 1/16" & 1/8" U Channel you mentioned, will be perfect for 650ma.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
The eb3 at only 0.5A is for sure no thermal overload, with or without heatsinks.
so you should be in a very comfortble region, price sounds right also.
Sammie config is fine too for sure.
so you should be in a very comfortble region, price sounds right also.
Sammie config is fine too for sure.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
oh, regarding heatsinks.
i think tme.eu have some cheap 4".
also depending on which eu country, 2020 profile can be dam cheap.
i think tme.eu have some cheap 4".
also depending on which eu country, 2020 profile can be dam cheap.
@Airwalker16 650mA would be for 16, but for 12 its 900mA, is that still ok for that thick alu u?
@cobshopgrow yes, i was torn between the bxeb and the samsung one, but frankly the bxeb is only winning with the 4ft strips which makes the spread "uncomfortable" (4ft strips in 6ft space, the other direction no spacing between the strips, so effectively a 4ft x 1ft "board"). so the price and the lm/w is very nice, but i think its fits the space less. also the u channels is easy to find, the heatsinks are not. can you give me the tme.eu link please? i have tried a million ways of narrowing down the search but i can't find something around 40mm x 300mm (so for the 1ft strip that is 4 cm wide). also searched through fischerelektronik, but i must be missing something. maybe i should sleep.
@cobshopgrow yes, i was torn between the bxeb and the samsung one, but frankly the bxeb is only winning with the 4ft strips which makes the spread "uncomfortable" (4ft strips in 6ft space, the other direction no spacing between the strips, so effectively a 4ft x 1ft "board"). so the price and the lm/w is very nice, but i think its fits the space less. also the u channels is easy to find, the heatsinks are not. can you give me the tme.eu link please? i have tried a million ways of narrowing down the search but i can't find something around 40mm x 300mm (so for the 1ft strip that is 4 cm wide). also searched through fischerelektronik, but i must be missing something. maybe i should sleep.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Why are 4' strips even on your radar? That's just a big fixture waiting to happen.
And yes, that angle aluminum should be fine for 900mA.
And yes, that angle aluminum should be fine for 900mA.
@Airwalker16 you and others suggested them to me, as in the best strip for the buck currently, and i have to say bxeb g2 has very impressive numbers. that said upon further inspection only the 4ft strips are more (cost-) "effective" than the f series (1ft) ones, so i have calculated with that, using the 1ft or 2ft ones it's more on level with the samsung which has the slightly upper hand in quality (again i mean all of this "as my current understanding", i most likely be wrong on many fronts). so there are many plus points for the bxeb (more cost effective, less heatsink needed, etc), the form factor is a bigger pain point, i wrote these down so you can correct me if i'm wrong and also it's just replying to folks who keep suggesting the bxeb ones.
i tried to search the forums for getting real life numbers for temperatures vs heatsinking setups for the f series (like the wonderful thermal threads for the bxeb series already linked from this thread), so far i haven't found that detailed level of information, but i keep searching, so i better understand the system. currently i plan with 12 f series gen3 1ft strips and 2mm thick alu U channels and some L channels for the frame (3 fixtures, 4 strips each, 2ft x 1 ft each).
i tried to search the forums for getting real life numbers for temperatures vs heatsinking setups for the f series (like the wonderful thermal threads for the bxeb series already linked from this thread), so far i haven't found that detailed level of information, but i keep searching, so i better understand the system. currently i plan with 12 f series gen3 1ft strips and 2mm thick alu U channels and some L channels for the frame (3 fixtures, 4 strips each, 2ft x 1 ft each).
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
the sammies will give you brilliant thermals too as low you wanna drive them.
www.tme.eu
theyre just 12mm wide... so no ideal choice.
for 2020 check out myaluprofil.de
they have the 2020 also with one side closed, maybe a good heatsink for the sammies.
30cm , 1,21€
heatsink - Searched phrase | Electronic components. Distributor, online shop – Transfer Multisort Elektronik | Semiconductors - accessories | Wide choice of elements and components, electronic parts / TME
heatsink - Searched phrase | Transfer Multisort Elektronik – electronic shop – electronic parts and components. More than 350,000 products from over 900 suppliers. Global electronic parts supplier. | Group: Semiconductors - accessories | Transfer Multisort Elektronik, Lodz, Mail-order sale of...
for 2020 check out myaluprofil.de
they have the 2020 also with one side closed, maybe a good heatsink for the sammies.
30cm , 1,21€
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Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
That's oerfectthe sammies will give you brilliant thermals too as low you wanna drive them.
theyre just 12mm wide... so no ideal choice.heatsink - Searched phrase | Electronic components. Distributor, online shop – Transfer Multisort Elektronik | Semiconductors - accessories | Wide choice of elements and components, electronic parts / TME
heatsink - Searched phrase | Transfer Multisort Elektronik – electronic shop – electronic parts and components. More than 350,000 products from over 900 suppliers. Global electronic parts supplier. | Group: Semiconductors - accessories | Transfer Multisort Elektronik, Lodz, Mail-order sale of...
for 2020 check out myaluprofil.de
they have the 2020 also with one side closed, maybe a good heatsink for the sammies.
30cm , 1,21€
@cobshopgrow so just for the record i could narrow down my digikey search, here it is (they are 40-80mm x 300mm in a range of $15-$30)
the tme.eu heatsink you linked is 30mm (which is still too short), i guess you've meant that (12mm is the thin height)
as for the 20x20 or any other profile: i have very easy access to those (even those builder profiles you pasted), for reference:
6m long alu L channel, 20mm x 20mm, 2mm thick, costs around $6-$16
6m long alu U channel, 40mm x 40mm x 40mm, 2mm thick, costs around $20-$30
6m long alu U channel, 40mm x 40mm x 40mm, 3mm thick, costs around $30-$40
6m long alu bosch/item builder profile (similar to the one you linked), 20mm x 20mm, costs around $30-$60
they also cut them to whatever length for like $0.7 per cut, some of them even have special heatsink profiles, but they are largely different sizes what i need (they are 110 and 125mm wide, and costs like $20 and $35 per meter respectively)
so i have plenty of cheap options in terms of regular alu stuff, but nothing like those heatsinkusa and plc photo boost heatsink.
since you asked i am located in hungary. here are two (hungarian) links for the bosch and item builder profiles i've mentioned
the tme.eu heatsink you linked is 30mm (which is still too short), i guess you've meant that (12mm is the thin height)
as for the 20x20 or any other profile: i have very easy access to those (even those builder profiles you pasted), for reference:
6m long alu L channel, 20mm x 20mm, 2mm thick, costs around $6-$16
6m long alu U channel, 40mm x 40mm x 40mm, 2mm thick, costs around $20-$30
6m long alu U channel, 40mm x 40mm x 40mm, 3mm thick, costs around $30-$40
6m long alu bosch/item builder profile (similar to the one you linked), 20mm x 20mm, costs around $30-$60
they also cut them to whatever length for like $0.7 per cut, some of them even have special heatsink profiles, but they are largely different sizes what i need (they are 110 and 125mm wide, and costs like $20 and $35 per meter respectively)
so i have plenty of cheap options in terms of regular alu stuff, but nothing like those heatsinkusa and plc photo boost heatsink.
since you asked i am located in hungary. here are two (hungarian) links for the bosch and item builder profiles i've mentioned
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
the tme eu strips are L: 1.2m; W: 30mm; H: 12mm
i mixed up with and height, right.
for the single row strips they will do, like the 2020 will.
theyre at least not too short with 1.2m, its a nice price for this lengh.
for the doubble row 2040 profile could be considered.
the prices for the builder profile apear high to me if you cnsider that 6 meter 2020 are just 24€ in the other store and the best is they cut for free.
6m 2040 would be 35,16 EUR, also cut for free.
take whatever works for you and you can get, just want to mention that sources.
i mixed up with and height, right.
for the single row strips they will do, like the 2020 will.
theyre at least not too short with 1.2m, its a nice price for this lengh.
for the doubble row 2040 profile could be considered.
the prices for the builder profile apear high to me if you cnsider that 6 meter 2020 are just 24€ in the other store and the best is they cut for free.
6m 2040 would be 35,16 EUR, also cut for free.
take whatever works for you and you can get, just want to mention that sources.
@cobshopgrow right thanks. there is no single row for 1ft, so i am thinking in terms of 40 x 40 U channel (or a 20 x 40 or a 40 x 40 I/B profile). as for the prices i agree the spec profiles are a bit pricey here, that said usually i can find cheaper stores that do not have web presence, but i can use the german site as well, i will research my alternatives.
i also could find some threads here where people discuss the thermal characteristics for the samsung strips (albeit using the 4 ft one), saying with U channels 1.1 - 1.2A (well the double of that for the 4 ft strip) is more than good enough (2" channel, 1.67A is 40C, 2.5A is 60C), some even suggest they don't need heatsink for their nominal current. (thread is https://www.rollitup.org/t/fb24b-strip-build-everything-ok.958241/)
in another thread someone said he switched from U channel to heatsinkusa and they perform much better (which i guess sounds logical, way more surface), but i don't know how that translates to my usecase (https://www.rollitup.org/t/samsung-f-series-led-strip-build-for-a-3x3-links-for-all-parts-inc.960970/)
so i think i should be fine even with the U channels for my setup but i am not sure to what point they are ok or how do the different heatsinks compare.
i also could find some threads here where people discuss the thermal characteristics for the samsung strips (albeit using the 4 ft one), saying with U channels 1.1 - 1.2A (well the double of that for the 4 ft strip) is more than good enough (2" channel, 1.67A is 40C, 2.5A is 60C), some even suggest they don't need heatsink for their nominal current. (thread is https://www.rollitup.org/t/fb24b-strip-build-everything-ok.958241/)
in another thread someone said he switched from U channel to heatsinkusa and they perform much better (which i guess sounds logical, way more surface), but i don't know how that translates to my usecase (https://www.rollitup.org/t/samsung-f-series-led-strip-build-for-a-3x3-links-for-all-parts-inc.960970/)
so i think i should be fine even with the U channels for my setup but i am not sure to what point they are ok or how do the different heatsinks compare.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
absolute, youre fine even with U channel, probably even L, even without that will work good.
there is quite some headroom in your config.
sounds you wont have a problem to keep the temp below 40c then, with easy to get locallly avaiable stuff.
below 40c its really nitpicking and below 30c is kinda unrealistic in a grow chamber without further efforts.
one thing to note on all these tests, a temparature measured with a thermal cam on the die is alway a good amount higher then what you can measure with a ir temp gun.
but hey, you have a great config, that fixture will stay cool anyway.
there is quite some headroom in your config.
sounds you wont have a problem to keep the temp below 40c then, with easy to get locallly avaiable stuff.
below 40c its really nitpicking and below 30c is kinda unrealistic in a grow chamber without further efforts.
one thing to note on all these tests, a temparature measured with a thermal cam on the die is alway a good amount higher then what you can measure with a ir temp gun.
but hey, you have a great config, that fixture will stay cool anyway.
@cobshopgrow that sounds very reassuring thank you. my space is open so i think that will also make the temperature a bit lower (also we live in a big block at the bottom, so it's relatively colder in summer compared to other apartments above, but also air circulation is very bad, we shall see).
i wouldn't have thought i would say this, but my gf literally convinced me to go with the bigger build, so i am back to 16 strips again, doing 4 fixtures (45cm x 30cm each), going with a hlg-320, running them at around 650mA, so a bit cooler and more effective, very nice. i will go with 2mm thick alu most likely, but i will lay out some plans a bit more (like i was thinking about using only 15x15 L channels that are only 1 or 1.5mm thick, they don't provide much heat dissipation anyways and are a bit lighter and i only need them for a frame, but again i will look into it a bit more).
next is wiring, i already made some calculations i will post later today, but there is a driver for every layout. the last steps would be to decide which strips to go with in terms of 3000K, 3500K, some mix, etc. for leafy greens i guess i don't need anything above those, but i am not sure how much a difference they make (also if gf decides we want some fruity plants i would need 4000Ks as well?).
i wouldn't have thought i would say this, but my gf literally convinced me to go with the bigger build, so i am back to 16 strips again, doing 4 fixtures (45cm x 30cm each), going with a hlg-320, running them at around 650mA, so a bit cooler and more effective, very nice. i will go with 2mm thick alu most likely, but i will lay out some plans a bit more (like i was thinking about using only 15x15 L channels that are only 1 or 1.5mm thick, they don't provide much heat dissipation anyways and are a bit lighter and i only need them for a frame, but again i will look into it a bit more).
next is wiring, i already made some calculations i will post later today, but there is a driver for every layout. the last steps would be to decide which strips to go with in terms of 3000K, 3500K, some mix, etc. for leafy greens i guess i don't need anything above those, but i am not sure how much a difference they make (also if gf decides we want some fruity plants i would need 4000Ks as well?).
so about wiring, here are my calculations, the samsung calculator gives me around 22.2-22.3V (so 14.5W) for 0.65A (so 16*14.5=232W total), albeit for the LT-F562B which has the same amount of diodes (with the same layout eg 8S x 9P) just a different form factor, so i guess they are the same in this sense (and the calculator does not have the LT-F284B). so different layouts (i'm using 24V here, but it shouldn't be a problem right), i would use a HLG-320H and i will only include the last part for each layout:
16S x 1P: 384V, 0.65A, -C700, i am concerned a bit about high voltage, but again i may not know what i'm talking about
1S x 16P: 24V, 10.4A, -24
8S x 2P: 192V, 1.3A, -C1400
2S x 8P: 48V, 5.2A, -48
4S x 4P: 96V, 2.6A, -C2800
did i get those right? is there any preferred one? or just choose which one is available? also i plan to get AB if i can but B if not. any recommendations?
16S x 1P: 384V, 0.65A, -C700, i am concerned a bit about high voltage, but again i may not know what i'm talking about
1S x 16P: 24V, 10.4A, -24
8S x 2P: 192V, 1.3A, -C1400
2S x 8P: 48V, 5.2A, -48
4S x 4P: 96V, 2.6A, -C2800
did i get those right? is there any preferred one? or just choose which one is available? also i plan to get AB if i can but B if not. any recommendations?
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
i am not so fit with sammie strips, i hope you can find some good examples here in the forum.
it sounds very harmless to me and you shouldnt need a ton of cooling.
many guys here use L channels, why not, allready doubbles your surface area.
nice that your girlfriend talked you in to the pricier unit, thats seldon, haha.
the 24V would be my last choice.
10A is quite some and the voltage drop could matter if the driver is remote mounted.
most people here would probably recommend the 48V version and it should do well.
i think i would like the C2800 the most.
if you wanna go crazy there you can compare the test reports of the mean wells (google shows them) like
the 2800 is a half percent more efficient but thats more to satisfy the inner nerd then it practically matters.
If you cant get the A/B version then you can dim them with the B version over the external poti, or if you dont plan to run the driver 100% take some lower value poti and youre ok too.
not as elegant as if you can limit it with the onboard driver screws, but in the end the same.
maybe someone have a better idea.
it sounds very harmless to me and you shouldnt need a ton of cooling.
many guys here use L channels, why not, allready doubbles your surface area.
nice that your girlfriend talked you in to the pricier unit, thats seldon, haha.
the 24V would be my last choice.
10A is quite some and the voltage drop could matter if the driver is remote mounted.
most people here would probably recommend the 48V version and it should do well.
i think i would like the C2800 the most.
if you wanna go crazy there you can compare the test reports of the mean wells (google shows them) like
the 2800 is a half percent more efficient but thats more to satisfy the inner nerd then it practically matters.
If you cant get the A/B version then you can dim them with the B version over the external poti, or if you dont plan to run the driver 100% take some lower value poti and youre ok too.
not as elegant as if you can limit it with the onboard driver screws, but in the end the same.
maybe someone have a better idea.