abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
You should see how well South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Sweden are doing.
Flat curves, no lockdowns.
Lockdowns don't work.
- Thread starter abandonconflict
- Start date
Flat curves, no lockdowns.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Of course Fauci is not political. He a fucking Infectious Disease, and Immunologist Specialist. Since 1968. Fuck a bunch of politicians. Id not want a politician operating on me, unless he is a Specialist/Physician.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Even in strictly enforced lockdowns like Italy and New York City, cases mushroomed. Italy eased weeks ago and still no new spike in cases.
The government can't flatten the curve by threatening people. It does not work.
zeddd
Well-Known Member
It’s puzzling. Especially when one considers how well lockdowns work!
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
You want politicians to have the cops arrest people for going to work. You want politicians to shut down society and cause a Fucking famine to try to stop a disease from spreading that they can't stop.
You can protect yourself from the virus by staying home. You cannot protect others by demanding that they do so. It's not working. It's causing a famine.
zeddd
Well-Known Member
What do you make of the Danish data regarding the R going from .6 to .9 after they opened the schools?
blu3bird
Well-Known Member
BINGO
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Sweden And Denmark Took Very Different Approaches To Fighting The Coronavirus. The Data Shows Many More People Are Dying In Sweden.
Sweden has seen a 34.5% increase in excess deaths this month compared to a 6.5% rise in Denmark.
In the 21 days before April 19, 7,169 people died — 1,843 more people compared to the average number of deaths during the same weeks between 2015 and 2019. That’s the equivalent of a 34.5% increase.
And on Monday, the Swedish statistics office said the number of deaths recorded in the week ending April 12 was the highest this century, surpassing a milestone set in the first week of 2000 when 2,364 people died. Three of the four weeks with the highest death tolls in the past two decades have occurred this month.
A bridge away in Denmark, the numbers tell a very different story. Statistics Denmark recorded 201 extra deaths over the same three weeks compared to a five-year average, an uptick of 6.5%. The contrast with the recent past is minimal. Even taking into account population size — Sweden is home to 10.3 million people, Denmark to 5.8 million — the gulf between the two countries appears stark.
South Korea is one of the few countries that has succeeded in flattening the coronavirus curve. Its policy of testing, tracing and treating without lockdowns has been widely lauded. Some attribute this to South Korea’s experience of having dealt with previous epidemics such as Sars and Mers. Commentators in the US tend to stress the country’s effective leadership, contrasting it with that of Donald Trump’s. Others point to cultural factors, such as the willingness of the public to sacrifice privacy for the greater good.
What is often overlooked, though, is that at the roots of South Korea’s success against Covid-19 are a well-funded and efficient system of delivering public services. Without this baseline infrastructure, the policy of test, trace and treat could not have been sustained or expanded to the degree that it has. Likewise, effective leadership cannot achieve much if it lacks a well-oiled public service system that can deliver.
March 25, a day after the announcement, Tokyo counted 41 confirmed cases of the virus, more than double its previous high of 17 cases. The same day, Tokyo Governor Yuriko Koike held a press conference warning that the city was at a critical phase. She said that it might see an explosion in the number of infections if it failed to act. She used the word “lockdown” as if it came out of the blue and asked everyone to refrain from leaving their homes—for that weekend.
The numbers nationwide kept rising. “In order to make it appear that the city was taking control of the coronavirus, Tokyo made the number of patients look smaller,” former Prime Minister Yukio Hatayama tweeted caustically on March 25. “The coronavirus has spread while they waited. [For Governor Koike] it was the Olympics first, not Tokyo’s residents.”
No one is denying there is a problem now, just two weeks after the Olympic announcement. As of early April 9, Japan has conducted 61,498 tests for the virus, and confirmed 4,877 cases. There have been 94 deaths.
But while Tokyo, Osaka and other prefectures are planning what they call a “soft lockdown” to stop the spread of the virus, Japan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) is planning to engage in a software lockdown of criticism about Japan’s handling of the coronavirus.
Hong Kong Shutdown a Lesson to the World in Halting Virus
Most of Hong Kong’s restrictions were put in place at the end of January, when the city had only a handful of cases.
As the world struggles with the rapid spread of Covid-19, Hong Kong appears to be having success controlling it -- in part because the memory of a similar virus in 2003 prompted a public outcry early on.
Hong Kong’s government quickly implemented restrictive “social distancing” measures now being hotly debated around the world, in part because of pressure from medical workers to close its border with China at the beginning of the outbreak. Those included closing schools, canceling large-scale events, shutting government offices and ordering civil servants to work from home -- a move that many companies quickly followed.
Hong Kong’s experience with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome -- which killed almost 300 people of more than 1,700 infected, the most outside of mainland China -- impacted the psychology of the city, said Nicholas Thomas, an associate professor at the City University of Hong Kong. Many residents wore surgical masks and avoided gatherings from the very start of the outbreak, a practice that continues more than six weeks later.
“As soon as the virus started to break out, and people read ‘China’ and ‘coronavirus,’ people remembered,” said Thomas, who has edited an academic book series titled “Health Security and Governance.” “The social part is one of the reasons why we’ve been able to keep the virus cases so low, because in some way the public has been able to make the government take measures.”
On Tuesday, the government said it was extending mandatory 14-day quarantines for all visitors arriving from outside of Greater China, reiterated that city residents should avoid traveling, and said it would keep some schools shut beyond an original April 20 deadline.
‘We will be very careful on school resumption,” Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam said. “From what we see now, a complete school resumption on April 20th is quite impossible. And even if the situation has stabilized, we could only reopen schools in phases.”
Taiwan took early action
"Due to the hard lessons that Taiwan learned during the SARS epidemic in 2003, it is more prepared for the coronavirus outbreak than many other countries," said Dr. Chunhuei Chi, a public health professor at the Oregon State University in the US.
Taiwan's government introduced a travel ban on visitors from China, Hong Kong and Macau soon after the number of coronavirus cases began to rise in mainland China.
Anticipating the high demand for masks in late January, the Taiwanese government started rationing the existing supply of masks. Taiwanese citizens can now go to designated drug stores across the island to line up and buy a specific amount of masks on a weekly basis. Chi pointed out that this policy has also been duplicated in other countries like South Korea and France.
"Taiwan leveraged the strength of its manufacturing sector and invested approximately $6.8 million (€ 6 million) to create 60 new mask production lines," said Chi.
"This increased Taiwan's daily mask pro production capacity from 1.8 million masks to 8 million masks. This has been called 'Taiwan’s Mask Miracle.'"
Technology for early detection
The Taiwanese government has also used data technology to help medical personnel identify and trace suspected patients and high-risk individuals.
In a paper published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Dr. Jason Wang, a public health policy expert at Stanford University in the US, highlighted Taiwan's use of technology to track the whereabouts of those under quarantine.
"The government will call you and try to figure out where you are," said Wang. "They can track people with their phone, which allows them to make sure all individuals who are supposed to go through the mandatory 14-day quarantine and are not violating the rules by sneaking out of their quarantine locations."
Read more: Germany and US wrestle over coronavirus vaccine
The Taiwanese government also provides support for those put under quarantine. Local village leaders will bring a bag of basic supplies like food or books to quarantined individuals. Since most quarantines are enforced, the Taiwanese government also rolled out a welfare program that provides a $30 daily allowance to those affected by the quarantine during the two-week period.
"This gives Taiwanese people more incentive to report their symptoms honestly," Wang said.
"That's the way democracies are handling quarantine during the coronavirus outbreak, and it's very different from authoritarian governments. I think this is a case where democracies should leverage their data and technologies appropriately, so they can triage people to the right place and follow up with appropriate care."
Sweden has seen a 34.5% increase in excess deaths this month compared to a 6.5% rise in Denmark.
In the 21 days before April 19, 7,169 people died — 1,843 more people compared to the average number of deaths during the same weeks between 2015 and 2019. That’s the equivalent of a 34.5% increase.
And on Monday, the Swedish statistics office said the number of deaths recorded in the week ending April 12 was the highest this century, surpassing a milestone set in the first week of 2000 when 2,364 people died. Three of the four weeks with the highest death tolls in the past two decades have occurred this month.
A bridge away in Denmark, the numbers tell a very different story. Statistics Denmark recorded 201 extra deaths over the same three weeks compared to a five-year average, an uptick of 6.5%. The contrast with the recent past is minimal. Even taking into account population size — Sweden is home to 10.3 million people, Denmark to 5.8 million — the gulf between the two countries appears stark.
South Korea is one of the few countries that has succeeded in flattening the coronavirus curve. Its policy of testing, tracing and treating without lockdowns has been widely lauded. Some attribute this to South Korea’s experience of having dealt with previous epidemics such as Sars and Mers. Commentators in the US tend to stress the country’s effective leadership, contrasting it with that of Donald Trump’s. Others point to cultural factors, such as the willingness of the public to sacrifice privacy for the greater good.
What is often overlooked, though, is that at the roots of South Korea’s success against Covid-19 are a well-funded and efficient system of delivering public services. Without this baseline infrastructure, the policy of test, trace and treat could not have been sustained or expanded to the degree that it has. Likewise, effective leadership cannot achieve much if it lacks a well-oiled public service system that can deliver.
March 25, a day after the announcement, Tokyo counted 41 confirmed cases of the virus, more than double its previous high of 17 cases. The same day, Tokyo Governor Yuriko Koike held a press conference warning that the city was at a critical phase. She said that it might see an explosion in the number of infections if it failed to act. She used the word “lockdown” as if it came out of the blue and asked everyone to refrain from leaving their homes—for that weekend.
The numbers nationwide kept rising. “In order to make it appear that the city was taking control of the coronavirus, Tokyo made the number of patients look smaller,” former Prime Minister Yukio Hatayama tweeted caustically on March 25. “The coronavirus has spread while they waited. [For Governor Koike] it was the Olympics first, not Tokyo’s residents.”
No one is denying there is a problem now, just two weeks after the Olympic announcement. As of early April 9, Japan has conducted 61,498 tests for the virus, and confirmed 4,877 cases. There have been 94 deaths.
But while Tokyo, Osaka and other prefectures are planning what they call a “soft lockdown” to stop the spread of the virus, Japan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) is planning to engage in a software lockdown of criticism about Japan’s handling of the coronavirus.
Hong Kong Shutdown a Lesson to the World in Halting Virus
Most of Hong Kong’s restrictions were put in place at the end of January, when the city had only a handful of cases.
As the world struggles with the rapid spread of Covid-19, Hong Kong appears to be having success controlling it -- in part because the memory of a similar virus in 2003 prompted a public outcry early on.
Hong Kong’s government quickly implemented restrictive “social distancing” measures now being hotly debated around the world, in part because of pressure from medical workers to close its border with China at the beginning of the outbreak. Those included closing schools, canceling large-scale events, shutting government offices and ordering civil servants to work from home -- a move that many companies quickly followed.
Hong Kong’s experience with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome -- which killed almost 300 people of more than 1,700 infected, the most outside of mainland China -- impacted the psychology of the city, said Nicholas Thomas, an associate professor at the City University of Hong Kong. Many residents wore surgical masks and avoided gatherings from the very start of the outbreak, a practice that continues more than six weeks later.
“As soon as the virus started to break out, and people read ‘China’ and ‘coronavirus,’ people remembered,” said Thomas, who has edited an academic book series titled “Health Security and Governance.” “The social part is one of the reasons why we’ve been able to keep the virus cases so low, because in some way the public has been able to make the government take measures.”
On Tuesday, the government said it was extending mandatory 14-day quarantines for all visitors arriving from outside of Greater China, reiterated that city residents should avoid traveling, and said it would keep some schools shut beyond an original April 20 deadline.
‘We will be very careful on school resumption,” Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam said. “From what we see now, a complete school resumption on April 20th is quite impossible. And even if the situation has stabilized, we could only reopen schools in phases.”
Taiwan took early action
"Due to the hard lessons that Taiwan learned during the SARS epidemic in 2003, it is more prepared for the coronavirus outbreak than many other countries," said Dr. Chunhuei Chi, a public health professor at the Oregon State University in the US.
Taiwan's government introduced a travel ban on visitors from China, Hong Kong and Macau soon after the number of coronavirus cases began to rise in mainland China.
Anticipating the high demand for masks in late January, the Taiwanese government started rationing the existing supply of masks. Taiwanese citizens can now go to designated drug stores across the island to line up and buy a specific amount of masks on a weekly basis. Chi pointed out that this policy has also been duplicated in other countries like South Korea and France.
"Taiwan leveraged the strength of its manufacturing sector and invested approximately $6.8 million (€ 6 million) to create 60 new mask production lines," said Chi.
"This increased Taiwan's daily mask pro production capacity from 1.8 million masks to 8 million masks. This has been called 'Taiwan’s Mask Miracle.'"
Technology for early detection
The Taiwanese government has also used data technology to help medical personnel identify and trace suspected patients and high-risk individuals.
In a paper published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Dr. Jason Wang, a public health policy expert at Stanford University in the US, highlighted Taiwan's use of technology to track the whereabouts of those under quarantine.
"The government will call you and try to figure out where you are," said Wang. "They can track people with their phone, which allows them to make sure all individuals who are supposed to go through the mandatory 14-day quarantine and are not violating the rules by sneaking out of their quarantine locations."
Read more: Germany and US wrestle over coronavirus vaccine
The Taiwanese government also provides support for those put under quarantine. Local village leaders will bring a bag of basic supplies like food or books to quarantined individuals. Since most quarantines are enforced, the Taiwanese government also rolled out a welfare program that provides a $30 daily allowance to those affected by the quarantine during the two-week period.
"This gives Taiwanese people more incentive to report their symptoms honestly," Wang said.
"That's the way democracies are handling quarantine during the coronavirus outbreak, and it's very different from authoritarian governments. I think this is a case where democracies should leverage their data and technologies appropriately, so they can triage people to the right place and follow up with appropriate care."
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
The reason for a meat shortage will be because workers are infected.
Coronavirus News: Nearly 900 Workers Test Positive For COVID-19 At A Single Tyson Meat Plant
Coronavirus News: Nearly 900 Workers Test Positive For COVID-19 At A Single Tyson Meat Plant
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Changes in reproctive rate are meaningless when seroprevalence hasn't been determined. Also, deaths everywhere are about to be redefined and counted now that it is known that the virus attacks the circulatory system primarily. Heart attacks and strokes aren't down, people with heart disease are just more vulnerable.
Cases are counted based on presented symptoms. That's who gets lab tested. Danes are young and have a good diet maybe. It's a small population and we can probably get good data from them but haven't yet.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
No it is not. Almost none of them are symptomatic. It is still very straightforward to keep that plant running and producing safe products. 900 workers are readily available for that low skill work.
Stop spamming, I'm having a conversation here.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Suck a dick. Not spamming showing you the facts.
Food Workers Are Dying at Meat Processing Plants Where Social Distancing Is ‘Almost Impossible’
"Every day we worry about this virus.”
The Workers are Very Worried. They take the shit back home to their families.
Thats 900 people taking the shit back to their families. In 1 facility. Asymptomatic also means you can transmit the virus.
Members of the union, which represents 250,000 workers in the meat and food processing industries, said on a Thursday press call that conditions at meatpacking plants made it nearly impossible to practice social distancing, even as companies have taken short-term measures to try to keep workers safe.
On Thursday, the Rural Community Workers’ Alliance and an anonymous worker at Smithfield plant in Missouri filed a lawsuit in federal court alleging that the company wasn’t even allowing workers to pause their work to cough or sneeze. The suit said Smithfield was enacting “punitive measures to ensure its preferred line speed is maintained, including that missing even one piece of meat to clean one’s face could result in punitive employment action.”
The worker and the RCWA also allege that the company hasn’t given employees “any additional break time to wash their hands or to use hand sanitizer,” and even “encourages them to come into work sick.
Worries continue over meat shortages as processing plant workers get sick
Workers are getting sick.
The UFCW called on the Trump administration to take action and provide the needed safety steps and equipment to workers including increased worker testing, priority access to the federal stockpile of PPE (personal protective equipment) mandating social distancing, isolating workers with symptoms or testing positive for COVID-19 and providing full paid sick leave workers who are infected.
“While we share the concern over the food supply, today’s executive order to force meatpacking plants to stay open must put the safety of our country’s meatpacking workers first,” Marc Perrone, UFCW’s president said in statement. “Simply put, we cannot have a secure food supply without the safety of these workers.”
There have been 20 worker deaths in meatpacking and food processing, the UCFW said. In addition, the UCFW estimates at least 5,000 meatpacking and 1,500 food processing have been directly impacted by the virus. That includes workers who have tested positive for the virus, missed work because of self-quarantine, those awaiting test results or have been hospitalized, and/or are symptomatic.
tRUmp aint supplying PPE, to anyone.
Hes a complete failure.
Apr, 29, 2020
A new study out of Hong Kong indicates that the precautious taken there — similar to those taken in the US, like closed schools, travel restrictions, mask-wearing, and general distancing — have had a measurable effect on the spread of Covid-19 and the flu. That should give people confidence that social distancing is working, even with its painful economic toll.
Food Workers Are Dying at Meat Processing Plants Where Social Distancing Is ‘Almost Impossible’
"Every day we worry about this virus.”
The Workers are Very Worried. They take the shit back home to their families.
Thats 900 people taking the shit back to their families. In 1 facility. Asymptomatic also means you can transmit the virus.
Members of the union, which represents 250,000 workers in the meat and food processing industries, said on a Thursday press call that conditions at meatpacking plants made it nearly impossible to practice social distancing, even as companies have taken short-term measures to try to keep workers safe.
On Thursday, the Rural Community Workers’ Alliance and an anonymous worker at Smithfield plant in Missouri filed a lawsuit in federal court alleging that the company wasn’t even allowing workers to pause their work to cough or sneeze. The suit said Smithfield was enacting “punitive measures to ensure its preferred line speed is maintained, including that missing even one piece of meat to clean one’s face could result in punitive employment action.”
The worker and the RCWA also allege that the company hasn’t given employees “any additional break time to wash their hands or to use hand sanitizer,” and even “encourages them to come into work sick.
Worries continue over meat shortages as processing plant workers get sick
Workers are getting sick.
The UFCW called on the Trump administration to take action and provide the needed safety steps and equipment to workers including increased worker testing, priority access to the federal stockpile of PPE (personal protective equipment) mandating social distancing, isolating workers with symptoms or testing positive for COVID-19 and providing full paid sick leave workers who are infected.
“While we share the concern over the food supply, today’s executive order to force meatpacking plants to stay open must put the safety of our country’s meatpacking workers first,” Marc Perrone, UFCW’s president said in statement. “Simply put, we cannot have a secure food supply without the safety of these workers.”
There have been 20 worker deaths in meatpacking and food processing, the UCFW said. In addition, the UCFW estimates at least 5,000 meatpacking and 1,500 food processing have been directly impacted by the virus. That includes workers who have tested positive for the virus, missed work because of self-quarantine, those awaiting test results or have been hospitalized, and/or are symptomatic.
tRUmp aint supplying PPE, to anyone.
Hes a complete failure.
Apr, 29, 2020
A new study out of Hong Kong indicates that the precautious taken there — similar to those taken in the US, like closed schools, travel restrictions, mask-wearing, and general distancing — have had a measurable effect on the spread of Covid-19 and the flu. That should give people confidence that social distancing is working, even with its painful economic toll.
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jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Facts hurt huh?? Poor little butt hurt baby.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Denmark says reopening a fortnight ago has not accelerated virus spread.
www.google.com
Germany and Spain ease lockdown as Eurozone slumps 3.8% – as it happened
This blog is now closed.
www.google.com
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
You're just blanketing bullshit cherry picked quotes from biased articles and not even linking them. Literally quotes with no attribution. It's spam. It's annoying and it's just there to bury the debate and draw attention.
You're immature and facile.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Its not spam. Its facts you cant refute. No ALternative facts.
Everything shows early intervention, and lockdown slow the spread of the virus. Simple enough. Common sense really. Main thing is to not overwhelm hospitals. Also lessens exposure to first responders.
Everything shows early intervention, and lockdown slow the spread of the virus. Simple enough. Common sense really. Main thing is to not overwhelm hospitals. Also lessens exposure to first responders.
kelly4
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
As you say, it really IS common sense that if people don't come into contact with the virus they won't come down with it and the spread will stop. People who work in the tourist industry are hurting though. It's just common sense that many of them reject policies that hurt their businesses. Witness the oil industry. They reject climate science with spurious arguments too.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
quit whining and post something convincing.
Sunbiz1
Well-Known Member
"Rockford-area Republican lawmaker John Cabello filed the second lawsuit over the stay-at-home order on Wednesday. Cabello said he's motivated by small shop owners who've asked why they can't fully operate, but big box stores can.Balls you say?.....lol
Michigan governor extends state emergency order despite Trump tweet backing protesters
Whitmer signed a series of executive orders hours before the state of emergency was set to expire on April 30 and extended it to May 28, citing the growing number of cases and deaths in the state from the disease. The Democratic governor said that in some counties in western and northern Michigan, cases are doubling every six days or faster.
Michigan governor extends state emergency order despite Trump tweet backing protesters
Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer pushed forward with her state of emergency order despite opposition from state leaders, protesters and the president.abcnews.go.com
"We're just being told how things are going to be," Cabello said. "And I don't believe that the constitution allows him to do this for another 30 days."
Coronavirus Illinois: Stay-at-home order with new rules, mask requirement takes effect Friday, faces 3rd lawsuit from pastor
As the extended stay-at-home order kicks in Friday, Illinois Governor JB Pritzker is under mounting pressure from around the state to further ease restrictions.
I read our section in the constitution under the emergency powers act, which does NOT allow the governor to continue shutdowns beyond 30 days.
Every state has a safeguard against this, so that 1 person cannot make decisions beyond their scope of capabilities.
That's what legislatures vote for, so that 1 person isn't overwhelmed, or abusing their power.
He's going to lose in court in our state.