Long time synthetic grower switching to organic grow, thoughts?

VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
I have some 1-month-old clones that are in small pots that I want to transplant into new pots. They were grown with synthetic nutes, but I'd like to try them with organic nutes for veg and bloom.

I'll be using 80% coco 20% hp promix. Then mixing in the recommend per litre or soil gia green 4-4-4, worm casings, dry molasses and dried sea kelp. De-chlorinate tap water with a water stone for 24hr. PH water to 6.6-6.8 so the good bacteria in the soil doesn't die using baking soda to raise or white vinegar to lower PH.

After 3 weeks switch to bloom cycle and top dress with 50% gia green 4-4-4 and 50% gia green 2-8-4, with micro nutes of dry molasses and dried sea kelp.

Top dress again after week 3 and week 6 with gia green 2-8-4, with micro nutes of dry molasses and dried sea kelp.

Up until week 9 just give water at PH 6.6-6.8.

Thoughts? My goal is to keep it as simple as possible without making compost teas unless there is an emergency deficiency.
 
Y

youraveragehorticulturist

Well-Known Member
I would use 80% ProMix and 20% or coco. ProMix is innoculated with Mycos (and maybe bacteria) and limed to buffer pH and is great environment for organics. Coco is good to lighten up your mix but it kinda sucks for microbes and is kind of "barren" to start with.

If you're switching to organics you really should add some compost or earth worm castings or some kind of humus.

Compost tea is good to kick off your beneficals, show they break down your amendments, you don't get a deficency.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I guess coco with dry all-in-one blends is its own "style." Peat and compost is another style. Don't let me talk you out of the style your think is cool.

What a dumb post.
 
horycwap

horycwap

Member
I'd agree with @youraveragehorticulturist that I would use 80 ProMix 20 coco. I grow in organic soil, make my own mix (peat, guano, casings, humus, DE, etc.) and top dress or add liquid organic nutes as necessary. But mine is a strategy built on many years of trial and error.

If you've got good dirt from the start you shouldn't need to add any extra nutes.

I highly recommend getting PH up & down. Vinegar and baking soda really arent the best and up/down is hella cheap.
 
Medskunk

Medskunk

Well-Known Member
If i could get my hands on gaia id def go for that. Do it!
Coots mix is also top stuff and works spot on even if you have no experience. With top compost you could do only watering, for around 6 weeks.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
youraveragehorticulturist said:
I would use 80% ProMix and 20% or coco. ProMix is innoculated with Mycos (and maybe bacteria) and limed to buffer pH and is great environment for organics. Coco is good to lighten up your mix but it kinda sucks for microbes and is kind of "barren" to start with.

If you're switching to organics you really should add some compost or earth worm castings or some kind of humus.

Compost tea is good to kick off your beneficals, show they break down your amendments, you don't get a deficency.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I guess coco with dry all-in-one blends is its own "style." Peat and compost is another style. Don't let me talk you out of the style your think is cool.

What a dumb post.
Click to expand...
Not a dumb post, thanks for sharing.

I picked up some ocean soil, kelp meal and worm casings. Im going to add some of that into my promix and coco grow.

This is a test run, so I'll try 50/50 on coco and promix, I really do love the coco water retention.

Organics with living soil already seems more fun and possibly easier to maintain once all the numbers are dialed in. I like the idea of not cleaning up my water catch disks after every watering.

What PH do you use and what type of water?
 
S

SandyShores

Member
I tried pretty much the exact same setup this summer. Promix,coco,Gaia Green,seaweed mix,etc. After a month i had to give in and switch back to synthetic nutes as i was battling one deficiency after another and issues with a ph of 6.5 or higher. Lost a lot of veg time but I still should get some fair yields as they are quite healthy now. I had 100lb of gaia green left and i give to a fellow grower to try his luck with.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
SandyShores said:
I tried pretty much the exact same setup this summer. Promix,coco,Gaia Green,seaweed mix,etc. After a month i had to give in and switch back to synthetic nutes as i was battling one deficiency after another and issues with a ph of 6.5 or higher. Lost a lot of veg time but I still should get some fair yields as they are quite healthy now. I had 100lb of gaia green left and i give to a fellow grower to try his luck with.
Click to expand...
Oh man, that sucks. I'm worried about that too, but I'm using composte teas as a back up. I failed with my first like 6 grows on synthetic nutes, but eventually stuck with it and now its almost perfect.

I kind of want a new challenge too and see how dank organic weed is and maybe a better smoke and high.

Regarding PH, did you go 6.5 to 6.8? The guy at my hydro shop(I know, I know) said he grows his stuff at 6.0 and the microbial is fine.
 
S

SandyShores

Member
VILEPLUME said:
Oh man, that sucks. I'm worried about that too, but I'm using composte teas as a back up. I failed with my first like 6 grows on synthetic nutes, but eventually stuck with it and now its almost perfect.

I kind of want a new challenge too and see how dank organic weed is and maybe a better smoke and high.

Regarding PH, did you go 6.5 to 6.8? The guy at my hydro shop(I know, I know) said he grows his stuff at 6.0 and the microbial is fine.
Click to expand...
Yes 6.5 to 6.8 but when i switched to synthetic nutes I dropped it to 6 to 6.3. Microbial life may have been fine in that area but i wasn't taking any chances. 6.5 and over made my plants curl and twist the leaves like crazy.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
SandyShores said:
Yes 6.5 to 6.8 but when i switched to synthetic nutes I dropped it to 6 to 6.3. Microbial life may have been fine in that area but i wasn't taking any chances. 6.5 and over made my plants curl and twist the leaves like crazy.
Click to expand...
Good to know. I'm going to use a lower ph and see how it goes.
 
S

SandyShores

Member
VILEPLUME said:
Good to know. I'm going to use a lower ph and see how it goes.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind I didn't really know what I was doing it was my first kick at the organic can. My well water is usually about 5.8 so I have to add PH Up and I didn't have anything organic to do that with so i was using AN's PH Up which may have been killing the microbial life.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
SandyShores said:
Keep in mind I didn't really know what I was doing it was my first kick at the organic can. My well water is usually about 5.8 so I have to add PH Up and I didn't have anything organic to do that with so i was using AN's PH Up which may have been killing the microbial life.
Click to expand...
Oh probably. With everything you've learned, I bet you would have more success now.
 
Y

youraveragehorticulturist

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
Not a dumb post, thanks for sharing.

I picked up some ocean soil, kelp meal and worm casings. Im going to add some of that into my promix and coco grow.

This is a test run, so I'll try 50/50 on coco and promix, I really do love the coco water retention.

Organics with living soil already seems more fun and possibly easier to maintain once all the numbers are dialed in. I like the idea of not cleaning up my water catch disks after every watering.

What PH do you use and what type of water?
Click to expand...
Everybody is into different stuff, but I have fun growing in soil. Mixing up big batches of soil isn't the coolest thing, but neither is a big reservoir change. Soil is pretty easy once you get your head around the idea that you've got to maintain your microbes and any feeding/amending you do should be done a week or two before it's necessary, so it's ready when you need it. Also if you're coming from a sterile, hygienic hydro environment it can be a mind-fuck to use rotting stuff, off the ground, from outside, in your grow.

I've been fortunate, my local water is great and I've always used straight tap water with no problems. I've never pH'ed anything, or tried to measure soil run off pH or anything. My plants do OK, so I guess my soil is somewhere around 6.8. Whatever it is, as long as I don't dump crazy amounts of high powered stuff into my plants, it seems stable.

I DO have problems if my soil gets too dried out. Sometimes in flower my plants drink a little more than I'm used to, or maybe I got lazy and go a day or two too long between waterings. That can make my peat based soil a little dry, then it gets hydrophobic, and repels my next watering. If I don't catch it them, shit dries out. I assume this makes my microbes go dormant (I have no way to know for sure) which raises all kinds of hell. Nutrients that were available and cool are suddenly locked out and my plants yellow overnight. When I get things rehydrated and use some compost to get the microbes kicking again, everything recovers.

I saw a post from Richard Drysift yesterday where he talked about microbes regulating soil pH, and not needing to adjust if your fungus/bacteria was strong. And needing to manually adjust your pH if the microbes in your root zone were weak.

This matches my own experience, and for me explains why dudes who use coco and amendments, but no compost, need to adjust their water. And why organic guys who use lots of EWC, compost, innoculants, etc, don't need to.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
Not a dumb post, thanks for sharing.

I picked up some ocean soil, kelp meal and worm casings. Im going to add some of that into my promix and coco grow.

This is a test run, so I'll try 50/50 on coco and promix, I really do love the coco water retention.

Organics with living soil already seems more fun and possibly easier to maintain once all the numbers are dialed in. I like the idea of not cleaning up my water catch disks after every watering.

What PH do you use and what type of water?
Click to expand...
I water my plants from a dehumidifier sump. Probly would not even drink it unless I had to. Never ph anything. at all. ever. The ph is set by the activity of the microbes and composition of the soil. That’s why a mostly coco mix is so tricky to maintain proper absorption. If you use a bagged soil mix and add in active compost you shouldn’t need to worry about a ph imbalance no matter what your water ph is.
I have an unfair advantage over some because I have a worm bin. The key to growing without nutrients is compost; the more active is it the better. All I do is throw fresh EWC from the worm bin into the mix and that along with properly liming the soil after each run is enough to keep ph right where it should be. Mycorrhizae does the rest.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
youraveragehorticulturist said:
Everybody is into different stuff, but I have fun growing in soil. Mixing up big batches of soil isn't the coolest thing, but neither is a big reservoir change. Soil is pretty easy once you get your head around the idea that you've got to maintain your microbes and any feeding/amending you do should be done a week or two before it's necessary, so it's ready when you need it. Also if you're coming from a sterile, hygienic hydro environment it can be a mind-fuck to use rotting stuff, off the ground, from outside, in your grow.

I've been fortunate, my local water is great and I've always used straight tap water with no problems. I've never pH'ed anything, or tried to measure soil run off pH or anything. My plants do OK, so I guess my soil is somewhere around 6.8. Whatever it is, as long as I don't dump crazy amounts of high powered stuff into my plants, it seems stable.

I DO have problems if my soil gets too dried out. Sometimes in flower my plants drink a little more than I'm used to, or maybe I got lazy and go a day or two too long between waterings. That can make my peat based soil a little dry, then it gets hydrophobic, and repels my next watering. If I don't catch it them, shit dries out. I assume this makes my microbes go dormant (I have no way to know for sure) which raises all kinds of hell. Nutrients that were available and cool are suddenly locked out and my plants yellow overnight. When I get things rehydrated and use some compost to get the microbes kicking again, everything recovers.

I saw a post from Richard Drysift yesterday where he talked about microbes regulating soil pH, and not needing to adjust if your fungus/bacteria was strong. And needing to manually adjust your pH if the microbes in your root zone were weak.

This matches my own experience, and for me explains why dudes who use coco and amendments, but no compost, need to adjust their water. And why organic guys who use lots of EWC, compost, innoculants, etc, don't need to.
Click to expand...
Thanks again for sharing what you have learned.

Ok so now I'm using 60 pro mix, 20 ocean soil(I'd use more but its expensive) and 20 coco. I like that promix already has the dolomite lime too and I know will help with the ph and calmag at the start.

I've also mixed in the gia green and worm casings in a huge enclosed bin and will bake it for 45 days.

I was excited to see that tap water is safe for organic gardens from that previous posted video.

Any tips on baking soil? Should I open the container once a week or just leave it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top