Looking for Some Organic Options

Rurumo said:

I've experimented a lot with bio char in mixes, and I love it, but in small amounts. Each bio-char brand varies in how alkaline it is, depending on the wood used, and other aspects of the pyrolysis process, but typically bio-char is highly alkaline at 8+ ph. I like to soak it in fish hydrolysate for a week then you're good to add it, but don't go over 5% of the total mix as bio-char. The high alkalinity makes it a great addition to peat based mixes, but it does add something to a coco grow too at 1% to 5% of a mix. The main reason I add it is because rhizobacteria love it, and even at 1% of a mix, it creates so many tiny oasis where bacteria can thrive-not that they don't already thrive in coco or peat, we're just talking about the internal surface area of bio-char that gives it such special properties. I like earthworm castings for a similar reason-not for their nutritive value, but for their value in spreading beneficial bacteria/fungi through the media.

Click to expand...

Well my worm castings is used for both, mainly as a source of p, but also because all the other micro nutrients it contains, as for the biochar its already pre-mixed in the organic soil enhancer at 20% roughly, so its bot something I can alter or am adding in myselr per se. It literally comes as about 20% pre mixed in. They said they done their tests and those were the results they got beat out of.

i plan on running biowar inoculants as well just to boost the process and have diversity in there

Kushthemagictree said:

Think thats the best way just keeping an eye on plants see how they respond, i know in this run i’ve seen some pretty rapid growth so plants are pretty happy, i also get that praying look daily with also leafs pointing slightly up after a few hours of light,

think i might add in some small amounts of bio char and the rice hulls when i amend this soil after this run.
Have you grow diary added on here mate ? Just out of intrest ?

Click to expand...

Well its my first go, but I am interested in mixes, so if you got one post it up (if u dont mind sharing) or dm me if you wish to keep it private. I will keep a journal though and see how it goes.

xtsho said:

You must have me confused with someone else. Please look back through your thread and show me where I was arguing with anyone. I'm not involved in the bickering.

I made one comment pertaining to the upcoming ban on peat for amateur gardeners in the UK. I thought that my post had merit. 2024 is not that far off. Why focus on using a growing medium that you may not be able to acquire in the future? How is that arguing. You're worrying about making a peat based blend and in a matter of a couple grows you might not be able to get peat. You would be better off focusing on using ingredients that you will continue to have access to.

Anyway, good luck.

Plans to phase out the use of peat in the amateur horticulture sector

Government seeking views on a ban of the retail sale of peat in horticulture by end of this Parliament

www.gov.uk

Sales of peat compost to gardeners to be banned from 2024

Funding for restoration of peatlands and tripling of tree planting in England also announced

www.theguardian.com

Click to expand...

But I appreciate the info, thank u

Kushthemagictree said:

Think thats the best way just keeping an eye on plants see how they respond, i know in this run i’ve seen some pretty rapid growth so plants are pretty happy, i also get that praying look daily with also leafs pointing slightly up after a few hours of light,

think i might add in some small amounts of bio char and the rice hulls when i amend this soil after this run.
Have you grow diary added on here mate ? Just out of intrest ?

Click to expand...

Here's what's growing now.

Anyone know where to get some blue burst seeds?

there are three of you who need to stop ruining this thread for the op with your squabbles we get it you all dont like eachother go away stop ruining threads its annoying

EvansInUK said:

Anyone know where to get some blue burst seeds?

Click to expand...

I don't know if you've joined this giveaway or not. But it looks like a decent Blueberry strain. I don't know anything about the Blue Burst seeds.

EvansInUK said:

Well its my first go, but I am interested in mixes, so if you got one post it up (if u dont mind sharing) or dm me if you wish to keep it private. I will keep a journal though and see how it goes.

Click to expand...

Mate i wouldnt like to share my current mix lol, think its on its third run now as i’ve been reusing, it does contain some coco, some bag bought medium which was a light mix and contains perlite aswell as shop bought generic type organic mix that had alot of small twigs included lol i’ve added charge along the way aswell as some worm castings. Plants are pretty happy and i’m adding in biosys every wk for microbes. Looks pretty active with mycelium aswell going off tops of pots.
Next grow i’ll reuse also and be reameding with some barley aswell as some rice hulls so its a little lighter. I wouldnt say i’m an out and out water only type organic pots. I’m all orgainc by what i use though if that makes sense

Man so much info in here from people, its hard to wrap my head around and remember it all haha. Well the biochar was already added into the soil product (organic compost) which is just something I want to try out with 50/50 pete moss.

Sadly I am unable to verdanta 2-0-6 I was really hoping to use. They won't ship internationally

so going to have to rethink my idea.

oodawg said:

If I'm not mistaken Vermiculite is used for water retention and not aeration/drainage. Your better off with good drainage and watering more frequently than a heavy dense soil where air doesn't exist.

Click to expand...

Oh my plan was for vermiculite (seedling) most likey in a one gal, or cup even to start, then move it to one larger pot for start to finish, I would not use 100% of anything for a base to be honest, it is 50/50 mix with or you could say 40/40/20 the 40/40 is pete moss (I think its nute free) and 40% of the soil amendment, which is what has the 20% biochar in it. This company has already done their own tests etc on that product, so I will leave that for them, and then I was going to add 10% worm castings in the potting mix and 10% later on. Top dressed. Sorry I should have clarified. I am looking at some compost tea as well to be honest, I would rather do organic start to finish; but struggling on a good mix idea.

But I have seen a website online whoch mentioned cotton seed collodial phosphate and woodash or greensand / granite dust, do; and I think I will do this

40% Pete Moss
40% Soil Amendment (20% biochar)
20% Perlite (Final Pot) after seedling stage transplant

with 1 cup dolomite lime, 1 cup kelp powder meal and some worm castings was my idea. I am sorry what did you guys say for sulphur ? Lag something, what is that and how much do you guys use? I wouldnt mind feeding it liquid kelp nutrient (only after days of training) as I heard it helps them recover quicker.

also what about the rest of the micro nutes,I heard kelp has around 70 of them,would that have all the ones the plant needs? Other than that, I won't know until it's tested to be honest, but thank you TO EVERYONE for the replies, way too much knowledge to remember it all, so I think ill have to jump on my pc and print screen and print off lol. But I will... there is a lot to learn from this so thanks guys. If anyone can see anything wrong with what I mentioned above,let me know.

So basically Cut it short

Main Mix (Base Mix) - Not seedling mix
40% Pete Moss
40% Soil Amendment (+20% Bio Char) in it
20% Perlite (Used After Transplant)

Additives for Micro's
1-2 Cup Rock Dust
1 Cup Kelp
1 Cup Dolomite (Cal-Mag) and Soil Buffer?


Work Castings
Bio-Sphere inoculants - Fungi Etc


With some compost/worm castings tea for Nutes. Which I will just do when needed?

This should cover all the nutrients right? Although what you mentioned for sulphur I could add in, as a precaution.

This should cover all the nutrients right? Although what you mentioned for sulphur I could add in, as a precaution.
[/QUOTE]

I think upfront cost would be on the higher end cost of things, but overall last longer in the long run, and be mostly organic, which is my goal.

EvansInUK said:

Oh my plan was for vermiculite (seedling) most likey in a one gal, or cup even to start, then move it to one larger pot for start to finish, I would not use 100% of anything for a base to be honest, it is 50/50 mix with or you could say 40/40/20 the 40/40 is pete moss (I think its nute free) and 40% of the soil amendment, which is what has the 20% biochar in it. This company has already done their own tests etc on that product, so I will leave that for them, and then I was going to add 10% worm castings in the potting mix and 10% later on. Top dressed. Sorry I should have clarified. I am looking at some compost tea as well to be honest, I would rather do organic start to finish; but struggling on a good mix idea.

But I have seen a website online whoch mentioned cotton seed collodial phosphate and woodash or greensand / granite dust, do; and I think I will do this

40% Pete Moss
40% Soil Amendment (20% biochar)
20% Perlite (Final Pot) after seedling stage transplant

with 1 cup dolomite lime, 1 cup kelp powder meal and some worm castings was my idea. I am sorry what did you guys say for sulphur ? Lag something, what is that and how much do you guys use? I wouldnt mind feeding it liquid kelp nutrient (only after days of training) as I heard it helps them recover quicker.

also what about the rest of the micro nutes,I heard kelp has around 70 of them,would that have all the ones the plant needs? Other than that, I won't know until it's tested to be honest, but thank you TO EVERYONE for the replies, way too much knowledge to remember it all, so I think ill have to jump on my pc and print screen and print off lol. But I will... there is a lot to learn from this so thanks guys. If anyone can see anything wrong with what I mentioned above,let me know.

Click to expand...

The amendments I use are single box multi amendments premixed I guess you'd call them. They pretty much cover everything so I don't buy amendments individually, i think people tend to go a bit overvoard in that area. Below are example of an all purpose mix 4 4 4 and a flower mix 3 9 4. They cover pretty much everything for me. I do add some additional lime. I use the all purpose in my base mix and top dress with flower when it's time. I do a 1/3 each for peat/compost and castings/ and aeration. Your 40/40/20 may be fine your just have to play around with it. Avoid dense heavy poor draining medium. Your roots need moisture and they need air as well. I like larger chunks of aeration material for this such as lava rocks or hydrocorn. They also provide Moore nooks for microbes to thrive.

Maintaining your bacteria and fungus herd is just as important if not more so than the amendments you add to you soil, if there's nothing to break down and make available those amendments for your roots than the amendments will just sit there not really breaking down.

oodawg said:

Maintaining your bacteria and fungus herd is just as important if not more so than the amendments you add to you soil, if there's nothing to break down and make available those amendments for your roots than the amendments will just sit there not really breaking down.

Click to expand...

Yeah that is why I wish to move seedling from a vermiculite mix into a potting mix perlite, but with inoculants added before during and after transplant, plus why I want to go organic, I want to keep rhizophere going. I am torn on rock dust though, some ovids on youtube swear by it, some dont.
I may try both at the same time as a control see what happens.... what do u think of rock dust? Like azomite or actual glacial rock dust (not thr Rip off products)

So to

oodawg said:

The amendments I use are single box multi amendments premixed I guess you'd call them. They pretty much cover everything so I don't buy amendments individually, i think people tend to go a bit overvoard in that area. Below are example of an all purpose mix 4 4 4 and a flower mix 3 9 4. They cover pretty much everything for me. I do add some additional lime. I use the all purpose in my base mix and top dress with flower when it's time. I do a 1/3 each for peat/compost and castings/ and aeration. Your 40/40/20 may be fine your just have to play around with it. Avoid dense heavy poor draining medium. Your roots need moisture and they need air as well. I like larger chunks of aeration material for this such as lava rocks or hydrocorn. They also provide Moore nooks for microbes to thrive.

View attachment 5172184View attachment 5172185View attachment 5172186

Click to expand...

So you add the top dressing during flowering, like I am going to do. So no transplants, just top dress and it works perfectly fine?

EvansInUK said:

Man so much info in here from people, its hard to wrap my head around and remember it all haha. Well the biochar was already added into the soil product (organic compost) which is just something I want to try out with 50/50 pete moss.

Sadly I am unable to verdanta 2-0-6 I was really hoping to use. They won't ship internationally

so going to have to rethink my idea.

Click to expand...

everybody has ideas mate, ways of working and there own learned and trusted methods. My 3rd 4th run is when things started coming together and i learned alot along the way, fuck ups actually help in my experience. My plants had very little issues this run. Never used a ppm meter or ph meter and plants all good. My advice to any one is little by little and never too much, and watch how the plants respond, after feeds after any additives organic or synthetics, we can still over donit with organics and have our medium too hot, good mix of diffrent amendments and well balanced out and you’l be good.
Half the reason i skipped on the bio char with this current run but going off feed its about 5% of total medium, i would of likely added more lol

EvansInUK said:

Yeah that is why I wish to move seedling from a vermiculite mix into a potting mix perlite, but with inoculants added before during and after transplant, plus why I want to go organic, I want to keep rhizophere going. I am torn on rock dust though, some ovids on youtube swear by it, some dont.
I may try both at the same time as a control see what happens.... what do u think of rock dust? Like azomite or actual glacial rock dust (not thr Rip off products)

Click to expand...

Of the few premade/mixed all purpose and flower amendments I have on hand I can see basalt, lime, rock phosphate, gypsum. All of those are derived from crushed rocks/Rock dusts. They do add to Phosphorus values of the amendments as well as other minerals. Seems to be enough rock dust for me. I'm sure it's all good stuff but more is not always better, it's easier to figure out what you need more of but it is harder to figure out what you used too much of. I'm sure glacial rock dust is good stuff but I really don't understand what it is, i know its more for mineral value than npk. Are they going to the artic circle where a glacier has recently receded leaving behind mineral deposits on rocks and then they grind that up? Most rocks were covered by a glacier at some point, do they just look for mineral deposits on rocks?

EvansInUK said:

So to

So you add the top dressing during flowering, like I am going to do. So no transplants, just top dress and it works perfectly fine?

Click to expand...

Yes, all purpose amendments are mixed into my base mix and my base mix will get them pretty much up until flower. My first tip dress is usually after stretch, they will be a bit N hungry so my top dress at that point is a 50/50 of the all purpose and flower mix. Then I usually top dress once more about mid way through flower with only the flower mix. Hitting them with teas/microbial life ever couple weeks.

I start seeds in a small pot that has about the bottom third filled with my base mix. Seedling mix on the top 2/3rds of the pot. Transplant into thier final pot full of my base mix after a bit more than 2 weeks usually.

You got this man, just gotta get started and you'll start learning, all of these things will be tweaked as you learn what works best in the microclimate your create. My first 2 grows were both huge learning experiences for me. Listen to your plants.

Just to add to thread,

barley is a great amendment also and in organics we looking to enhance the bio mass and create a living soil full of microbes and beneficial enzymes, which in turn break down organic matter making available to plants, barley is chocka with these beneficial enzymes ( one thing i wish i had of added in this run) next run 100% going with some barkey aswell as some rice hulls to lighten the mix and have more airy. Some of the enzymes barley contains are phosphatase, chitinase, urease, protease and amylase, these all help plants finish faster compare to those that dont have it added, chitinase is good’n also as i’m pretty sure this common in a lot of those organic type flowering boosters, i’m also going to add as a top dressing on the next run a load of crushed sea shells, pretty sure chitinase is found in crustaceans also one reason i like using the charge product, was amazed at how quick it brought back the plants i have in my current run, they was literally at deaths door and i had planned on binning, but topped heavely, and trained them and ws amazed at the progress so the 4 plants went in the 4x4.

a little reading up on enzymes, organics in general and allotment type gardening helps under stand all the nuances and what you actually feeding and trying to replicate in pots ( replicate as in the forest floor and how it regenerates with falling organic matter decaying back in to the earth )

all this was the turning point for me, the main thing and biggest is getting them enzymes, microbes and all that biology working in harmony in the pot breaking down the organic matter and getting those nutrients available to plants.

I’m not at the point of total organic where i’m just watering but i like it this way and still feel in control and know the pots pretty active and in a good place so like to have charge on hand aswell as biosys, some of my teas consisted of just biosys aswell as molasses and i also used some coconut water, which contains cytokins and is akin to sythentic plant steroids found in those boosters but its organic can also be used as a rooting hormone, plus the sugars act as a feed for enzymes keeping the microbial activity stimulated and fed.

lose the microbial activityl or enzymes and then the plants suffer and it’l show in leafs and other areas of plant, maintain the microbial activity with teas right amendments and organic matter continues to be broken down and is then nutients available to plants. Too much of the lime or gypsum, rock dust can create too much alkaline knocking things right out ph wise and too high of a ph then creating lockout in plants and imbalance in enviroment,

Half the reason i didnt use in this run as i know the calcium is in the charge aswell as magnesium, and it’l be available from just the mix being a bagged light mix.

All about balance, ying and yang and all that, the one thing our main eco system is starting to lose due to enviroment, agriculture, pesticides and climate change and so on.