Looking to up my bubble game!

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
The thing is though there’s an up and downside for any grow your doing you just have to weigh those and do what’s best for your situation. Think a lot of ppl especially those just starting out don’t realize this and don’t have a good plane together which in the end results in failure.
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
The thing is though there’s an up and downside for any grow your doing you just have to weigh those and do what’s best for your situation. Think a lot of ppl especially those just starting out don’t realize this and don’t have a good plane together which in the end results in failure.
Exactly plus its just way "cool" to run a rdwc setup.

But im getting old enough to where reliability and ease of maintenance trump "cool"

Im my opinion
 

Tstat

Well-Known Member
So, when I started (or re-started) this, I had some plastic up and some soil in 5 gallon pots. I then went to flood and drain tables and started to build the flower room. I used to run 2000 watts of HPS in there, now it's 900 watts of cobs. Oh, and didn't have any stickers on the door, lol.

I actually started growing in the 80's, until my son was born. Then I started back up in the late 90's when he went to college. Now we both have licenses and grow out a ton of HQ meds. Now I know my first pics didn't make me look like a very good grower, but 5 hours later, spring cleaning is complete. Here is basically that same shot from before:

Here is the pump setup. This thing is a beast! You can't see it but there is a big circulating fan blowing right on the pump:

Here is my "Upped Bubble Game":

Another shot of the girls. It's Sunshine Daydream, Goji OG, Hindu Hash Plant, Space Monkey, and Critical Kush. One type of strain for each tote.

Here is where we veg:

New babies- Mountain Temple and Black Raspberry:

The cloner:

This is what I use for fert. After the the drain and clean-out I'm at 550 ppm and 5.4 PH (Blue Lab tester).

And finally, here is a closeup of Space Money, a few weeks into flowering:

Now I'm heading out to visit the Health Dept. for my new MMJ photo. I'm exhausted, but really glad I did this today. Thanks everyone!
 

Tstat

Well-Known Member
Thanks, I call it my "commercial strain". I always have it in rotation because it never fails to produce and is quite good. Then, I always grow more "boutique" stuff like Bodhi's gear. I have Fruity Pebbles on the way, too- fem seeds even, lol.
 

HydroEnthused

Active Member
Aeration through air stones is the most superior method of aeration because it is the only method that can be made fail safe and failure proof if and only if you can feed your air pumps with clean room grade (100% dust free) air. There, I just bestowed upon you the secret of the hydroponic universe.
To keep the air pump and air stone running almost indefinitely you must also have the good sense to only use 100% dissolvable nutrients. With no dust or undissolved solids to clog the ceramic air stone , you will become a DWC demigod.
Or you can dismiss my advice.
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Aeration through air stones is the most superior method of aeration because it is the only method that can be made fail safe and failure proof if and only if you can feed your air pumps with clean room grade (100% dust free) air. There, I just bestowed upon you the secret of the hydroponic universe.
To keep the air pump and air stone running almost indefinitely you must also have the good sense to only use 100% dissolvable nutrients. With no dust or undissolved solids to clog the ceramic air stone , you will become a DWC demigod.
Or you can dismiss my advice.

Not quite, but airstones are a good thing :)

Here i found the old thread(edit to add thisnis not my post)

The results are IN!

PH 6.2
PPM 820
Measured in mg/l

DO levels at 67F:
Air stones: 8.0
Ventruri: 8.0
Water fall: 8.1
Flooming: 7.9
CapnStyle: 8.1
All at the same time: 8.2

DO levels at 78F:
Air stones: 7.2
Ventruri: 7.2
Water fall: 7.3
Flooming: 7.1
CapnStyle: 7.3
All at the same time: 7.4

I also tried adding 5ml/gal of H2O2 at the request of sky in the warm water. This raised the DO to 7.6. Still, not even close to the DO levels in cooler water. 10 hours later I checked it again, and the DO was back down to 7.4 H2O2 is not a good solution.

My hopes are crushed. I was hoping there would be a technique that would compensate for high water temps. If you have warm water, can you add more air to compensate? Nope. Take a look at the numbers. No matter how much air you add, you can't get DO levels past their saturation point.

It's all about temp. I don't care if you if you use 100 airstones or a hot tub venturi, water has a certain oxygen saturation point, at a certain temperature, and you can't get it any higher. All of the methods are acceptable methods. It is not possible to compensate for higher temps, by putting in more air.
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Aeration through air stones is the most superior method of aeration because it is the only method that can be made fail safe and failure proof if and only if you can feed your air pumps with clean room grade (100% dust free) air. There, I just bestowed upon you the secret of the hydroponic universe.
To keep the air pump and air stone running almost indefinitely you must also have the good sense to only use 100% dissolvable nutrients. With no dust or undissolved solids to clog the ceramic air stone , you will become a DWC demigod.
Or you can dismiss my advice.
How do you achive "clean room grade air"

As laboratories have to pay BOOKOO. Bucks to claim such a thing :)

As a true clean room is not an easy thing to achieve
 

HydroEnthused

Active Member
Carbon filter. You do not need to scrub an entire lab. Only the amount of air that is fed into your air pump. The cost is still pretty high but not so high if you only have a few containers.

I’ll drop another hint to the secret of aeration.
Flow meter. Now, this is my last post. You, for no apparent reason were chosen to use my aforementioned hints to unlock the secret of perfect aeration. Will you do the necessary experimentation to achieve metered clean room air supplied ceramic disc aeration?
It is the most advanced hydroponic method and it is only known by me. Because I’m bored I am allowing you to piece together the most perfect DWC system that will never let you down or fail. I estimate that it will take you 5 yrs to achieve what I have already. Do you accept? Will you be the new king of DWC on rollitup someday?
 
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Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Show me a clean room at microsoft that uses a carbon scrubber to filter their air :)

And on that note i think im out of this one ha ha
 

HydroEnthused

Active Member
Charcoal fines are eliminated after running the carbon filter for a few hours while giving it a gentle tap here and there.

swing and a miss.
So rkymtnman, how would you aerate 36 separate 20 gallon bins? With 36 separate water pumps?

My aeration system (my entire grow for that matter) is only visited once or twice a week and because of the clean room methods used to filter the air supplying the air pumps, I have not had an air stone fail since implementing the system and the performance of each air stone is measured separately. Water pumps simply cannot push the amount of water that evenly dispersed air bubbles will achieve for the same amount of energy used.
Add to the fact that some people want DWC containers that are not plumbed together (to eliminate all possibility of root clogs in the return lines) and the only solution for that is an air pump. Any mechanical engineer knows that the most efficient way to move water is with air. That’s how snow makers work for that reason.
My air pumps (pondmaster ap-100’s) go 4 yrs without a diaphragm change. 1.1 amps @123vac perfectly agitates 6-20 gal Rubbermaid bins (filled with 13-15 gal of water). If you were to divide the output from the volute of a 135 watt hobby water pump to waterfall into 6 separate containers you would not achieve the same evenly dispersed agitation that air pumps (more properly known as blowers) would achieve. Plus you never have to worry about clogs/leaks or floods due to plumbing/root clog issues.
Look at how aeration is achieved in all other industries. When you go past a small amount of containers you are left with no choice but to use a blower and aluminum oxide air stones simply because of the incredibly (almost 100%)
reliable and constant performance. A growing root ball does not effect the blower but it sure will clog the return line feeding your water pump.
Plus, if you use flow meters to monitor the air output, you will see when air output starts to diminish. You just change the diaphragm of that blower while the other blower keeps pumping air through the other air stone. You use at least 2 blowers and 2 air stones for each bin. This way (after about 4 yrs in my case) when you change one diaphragm, you still have another blower forcing air through another air stone.
With blowers you will never have a failure because the flow meter will show a reduced performance way before the diaphragm breaks. The blower diaphragms never fail abruptly. They “talk” to you monthsin advance by showing a slight reduction in performance.
Water pumps, on the other hand, do fail all at once when the roots grow so much in a few days and clog the return line feeding the water pump.
I stated my case with logic and experience. It is not scientific to simply write “swing and a miss”. So rkymtnman, do you have a plausible counter-argument that includes...facts?
 
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Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Easy

Water is not difficult to saturate with disoveld oxygen

Make sure your flow through the root ball is sufficient is the main goal

Make sure your circ times are good enough
And you could just aerate via top feed waterfall
No stones or pumps :) better aeration
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Charcoal fines are eliminated after running the carbon filter for a few hours while giving it a gentle tap here and there.


So rkymtnman, how would you aerate 36 separate 20 gallon bins? With 36 separate water pumps?
Thats good enough for a grow room but not a "clean room"
 

HydroEnthused

Active Member
Thats good enough for a grow room but not a "clean room"
Clean room classifications are described in Wikipedia. Using a little common sense, if a carbon filter is running for a little while you are going to shake loose any fine carbon and there will be none left to clog your air stones. Why is that so hard to believe? Carbon filters are absolutely used for clean rooms.
Simply go to a clean room Supply website and check for yourself. But if you could just accept this to be true (because it is, what a failure the carbon pellet filter would be if it constantly threw out enough carbon to blacken the walls of the exhaust ducts it were connected to) you could achieve perfect nearly maintenance free (but certainly fail safe and failure proof) aeration. Or you could keep running that blower of yours without a flow meter or positive pressure clean air supply jacket and increase your blower maintenance hours tenfold at least.
I figure you are already running the blower so why not do a little work to eliminate a TON of work in the future? I was at your level back in 2009 and if I was lucky enough to have somebody who has spent at least 250K on operations give me their utmost secret, I would be
1.) Curious, not dismissive
2.) Skeptical but not dismissive
3.) Eventually greatful and thankful because if you try to run my method you will never go back because it is the only way to guarantee that nearly exactly the same of aeration takes place in each container (the flow meters show the exact output of each air stone and when you open the valve of each flow meter to 100% you automatically get even disbursement. No need to adjust or calibrate any valves by eye, because that is not an acceptable way to measure the air output.
Try it before you knock it. You have the blower. You are on the right track. Keep pushing for perfection. I achieved and so can you. Ironically, the best aeration method is also extremely maintenance free. The best of both worlds. When you control the output of each air stone, there is no chance of an air stone clogging due to lack of pressure to break through the diffuser.
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Or just get out of using air stones and pumps all together like my next system:)

Awsome experience you got though

Dont know how to act in the pesence of perfection;)
 
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