Lower Leaves Yellowing with some Brown Spots

Uncle Ben said:

A 1-3-4, when it's obvious you have a lack of N and have been hitting them with a NPK that is high in K? I guess my points in post #13 and links didn't register, oh well. It's a beautiful plant that is destined to lose the very unit that makes your buds.

Good luck,
UB

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How can I have a lack of N when I used the nutes I posted about above.

BLOOM Part A 3 - 0 - 3 (Liquid)
BLOOM Part B 1 - 0.5 - 3 (Liquid)

These are my BLOOM nutes before the fortifier. I will be using the overdrive instead, but from the numbers above, it looks to me like I'm getting a decent amount of N so that doesn't really make much sense. And if P and N deficiencies look very similar, it can only logically be the P as I have only given the fortifer ONCE a day or two ago so the pictures are more indicative of the results of the above mentioned nute solutions ONLY.

Thats how I see it... Am I so wrong?

laserbrn said:

Other than the slight yellowing on the lower leaves the plants look great. I would suggest that WHATEVER you decide to do to try to correct it, you don't overdo it. That's the most common mistake if you really want to get into what the most common mistake is.

It doesn't look like an N defeciency as N defeciency in my experience starts at the VERY bottom and leaves die off before it really has a chance to spread. It sort of eats one leaf at a time at first and then spreads more rapidly.

Good luck, I hope you get it figured out, but I wouldn't even 'freak out" over it.

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Thank you for the response laserbrn. And yes do not worry I will not be overdoing anything. I am being very conservative with everything I am doing. No freaking out here, just looking for that "second opinion"!

And hey, if my plant is SHIT by the end, I will have learned something. If I've taken anything from this experience of growing, it's that I love to grow things. I couldn't care less if I kill this thing in a week, I'm learning and I WILL get better!

Thank you all for your time!!!!!!! Happy Growing!!!

darren_21 said:

How can I have a lack of N when I used the nutes I posted about above.

BLOOM Part A 3 - 0 - 3 (Liquid)
BLOOM Part B 1 - 0.5 - 3 (Liquid)

These are my BLOOM nutes before the fortifier.

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I understood you as saying you added the fortifier which is very high in P. My mistake.

I guess my question should have been, "after adding it all up, what are the NPK values the plants actually 'see'?" In this case, P is almost missing which is a pretty sucky "Bloom" food IMO, but nothing in this biz surprises me. You need to add a little of this and that to correct the deficiency in the product some shyster sold you in the first place. It's a racket. From what I add up, your plants are "seeing" a 2-0.25-3 NPK value. It should be closer to a 1-3-2 ratio to be considered a bloom food to me.

I rely on plant nutrition, not some glowing hype from a website saying its products has vitamins, enyyzmes and other useless crap which no one can or will take the time to verify much less if such substances are of any benefit to a plant. Not getting after you, just want you to understand when you make a choice in a plant food or product, don't fall for the hype. Plants respond to 16 essential nutrients in the right ratios, not Vitamin C.

And hey, if my plant is SHIT by the end, I will have learned something. If I've taken anything from this experience of growing, it's that I love to grow things. I couldn't care less if I kill this thing in a week, I'm learning and I WILL get better!

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That's the attitude!

Good luck,
UB

I think we're closer to the same page now UB! And yes from all the research I had done, I didn't think these nutrients made sense, but a long time growing friend swears by these nutrients so that was a solid source I had to go by. I guess the overdrive (which he uses) is supposed to supplement the missing P in the two BLOOM solutions.

So maybe I will follow these through to the end. See what I get, then next time maybe try something different. Like I said, I'm loving this game and I'm hooked! So thank you for all the help and advice, it's greatly appreciated!

darren_21 said:

I think we're closer to the same page now UB! And yes from all the research I had done, I didn't think these nutrients made sense, but a long time growing friend swears by these nutrients so that was a solid source I had to go by. I guess the overdrive (which he uses) is supposed to supplement the missing P in the two BLOOM solutions.

So maybe I will follow these through to the end. See what I get, then next time maybe try something different. Like I said, I'm loving this game and I'm hooked! So thank you for all the help and advice, it's greatly appreciated!

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Not a problem, but after this is all said and done, my message to you is don't sacrifice the production unit, the leaves, to a low N bloom food just because someone says it works for them, or wants you to believe it works. Most times it doesn't, not to the plant's fullest potential. Bottom line, you lose the leaves and you're in deep doo doo.

Good luck

Uncle Ben said:

I have been posting in many cannabis forums for over 10 years, and one of the most common issues I see is folks using a food that is too high in K, these are mostly "cannabis specific" foods from firms like canna, AN, GH, etc. There is an affect called "element antagonism" which means that too much of one induces a deficit of the other. Take too much K for example, like a 3-6-10. It will induce a deficiency of Ca, Mg, and N which WILL induce leaf yellowing and spotting, the precursor to leaf necrosis.

Here's a ditty I wrote many years ago regarding the abuse of Bloom foods: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/158144-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom.html

Here is an explanation of the concepts I'm talking about with a chart. Recommend you file this in your bookmarks: http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Having said that, as mentioned in my archive, one of the best bloom foods on the market is Peters Blossom Booster, 10-30-20, although still a little high in P than it needs to be, it's a great food to have around in your cannabis toolbox.

Good luck,
UB

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Ben, thanks for getting up to the plate. I agree with the post you wrote on RIU, however, the post pertains to P, not the K we are talking about here. No doubt those superbloom ferts with those crazy ratios are ridiculus. I would never use em. But K plays a pivotal and vital role, more so than P, in the first three weeks of flower. It is the K that plays the most important role, moreso than N, during this time.
Those first pics are sure absolute sign of K deficiency-look at em again. Those leaf edges are bnecrotic and now having random spottin-is classic. Now the second set of pics, those do resemble N deficiency more than K. + rep to you.

smokeybandit22 said:

Ben, thanks for getting up to the plate. I agree with the post you wrote on RIU, however, the post pertains to P, not the K we are talking about here. No doubt those superbloom ferts with those crazy ratios are ridiculus. I would never use em. But K plays a pivotal and vital role, more so than P, in the first three weeks of flower. It is the K that plays the most important role, moreso than N, during this time.
Those first pics are sure absolute sign of K deficiency-look at em again. Those leaf edges are bnecrotic and now having random spottin-is classic. Now the second set of pics, those do resemble N deficiency more than K. + rep to you.

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A plant receiving a ratio of 2-0.25-3 IS NOT deficient in K. I understand what function K has, it helps switch a plant from a veg mode to a flowering response but too much will induce a deficiency of N causing a decline in leaf health. N is the most important macro for producing and retaining healthy leaves. If you really want to understand the function of K, then call up old man Jack Peters of the Peters fame, and yes, I've talked to him about his Blossom Booster and the function of K, which can be found in the following link which I have posted in various forums for over 10 years.
http://www.jacksclassic.com/flowering_plant_care.html

N plays an important role in the retention of healthy leaves during flowering. Retaining leaves in a healthy, green condition is all that matters in this game. However, it's all relevant regarding the ratio of the macros like I said.

UB

The bloom fortifier I had is has since now been pitched in the garbage... Not sure what I was thinking with those ratios.

Now my next question, everything is still looking pretty good, just a little bit more yellowing so I am definitely going to try give a little boost of Nitrogen next watering.

What would you suggest, fertilizer wise to accomplish that?

darren_21 said:

The bloom fortifier I had is has since now been pitched in the garbage... Not sure what I was thinking with those ratios.

Now my next question, everything is still looking pretty good, just a little bit more yellowing so I am definitely going to try give a little boost of Nitrogen next watering.

What would you suggest, fertilizer wise to accomplish that?

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Anything that will get you closer to a 1-3-2 or a balanced 10-10-10. I don't know what you have access to or where you live. Me, I just go to Walmart, a nursery, or a lumber yard and pick up something off the shelf. There is basically only 2 NPK foods you need to raise good pot, a high N food such as a 30-10-10 or 9-3-6 and a "bloom food" such as a 10-30-20 with micros of course. You can mix them in different amounts to get anything in between. I grew some awesome outdoors sativa type bud a couple of years ago and all it got was a high N food from start to finish, something like a 9-3-6. Why? Because everytime I gave it a "bloom" food it balked, like yours is doing. N will be drawn (sacrificed) from the lower leaves of a plant and delivered to upper parts of the plant if not provided in sufficient amounts according to plant requirements. This is where you learn to read your plants.

I not only threw in some of the meals but added a high N slow release pelleted food like Osmocote to the mix before planting. Plants like to be fed moderate amounts of salts over time just like they receive in nature. Attached is an overhead shot of two very heavy colas falling over from their own weight. Excuse the dirty tennies. Plant was topped as a young seedling to get 4 main colas, worked out perfectly. This shot shows 2 of the 4 with the other two more upright in the background. Bud structure is pure sativa.



Good luck,
UB

That one looks real nice!!!

This is something I'm starting to learn, thats it about what the plant needs not the standard give them this, in that amount every X number of days.... I'm a hard convert because everything I do is normally very structured, with very specific numbers and amounts (I like things specific)... Same reason I hate cooking.... lol

But my girl is trying to talk to me... I'm just trying to learn the language!!!!! Will be heading out to the local hydroponics store to find myself some better nutes and see if I can't just solve this problem!

Got my hands on a mix that is made up by the owners of the store for bloom, 10 - 30 - 20.

Going to try and balance these nutes a bit better for now tho.

Will update later with pics.

darren_21 said:

That one looks real nice!!!

This is something I'm starting to learn, thats it about what the plant needs not the standard give them this, in that amount every X number of days....

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Now we're getting somewhere.

I'm a hard convert because everything I do is normally very structured, with very specific numbers and amounts (I like things specific)... Same reason I hate cooking.... lol

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Yep. Plants don't fit into any black and white category, that's only for marketing schemes promoting stupid charts and such.

But my girl is trying to talk to me... I'm just trying to learn the language!!!!!

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That's what's tough. Takes time and multiple gardens to learn how to read your plants. Failure is the best teacher sometimes although it comes hard. It's kinda like going thru a divorce - if you don't understand what caused the failed relationship, you're bound to repeat it the next go around.

Growing pot is a bond, a marriage of sorts for me. The growth stage is easy, it's the flowering part that is a challenge. Seriously, I find my biggest challenge is getting past the 4th week of flowering....maintaining the leaves in a healthy green condition.

Good luck,
UB

Still waiting obviously to see the results of the nute balancing i'm trying but I just took a picture for my own records. Here's where she is at now...

darren_21 said:

Still waiting obviously to see the results of the nute balancing i'm trying but I just took a picture for my own records. Here's where she is at now...

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It may be too early to tell or perhaps you haven't got a handle on the N deficiency, but if you don't get a handle on the fan leaf losses your yields will greatly suffer compared to what they would have been if most of the fan leaves had been retained until harvest.

What are the NPK values you're feeding them now?

Good luck,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

It may be too early to tell or perhaps you haven't got a handle on the N deficiency, but if you don't get a handle on the fan leaf losses your yields will greatly suffer compared to what they would have been if most of the fan leaves had been retained until harvest.

What are the NPK values you're feeding them now?

Good luck,
UB

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Definitely still too early to tell in that pic.

I got some 5 - 0 - 0 fertilizer to help with the nitrogen a little bit. As you say, I think I will be having lower yield on this batch as I was unsure of what the deficiency was until a little later on. I think if I had caught it earlier it could have helped. Now since this is for personal use only, I'm still happy with where I am and hopefully the next lady with be even bigger/better!

Going follow to through to the end with the 10 - 30 - 20. Thanks for all the help/advice.