Lucas Formula

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
I don;t know why, it may me the strain, But they can't take 8-16, they take 5-10 in veg and they end up with deficiencies... and if I up the ppm they get burn... there is no in between...
Don't use lucas for Veg, it is a budding formula. I am growing DWC this time and I dont worry about ml of fertilizer. I just go by PPM. I run them between 800 PPM and 1000 PPM in flowering with lucas. Lucas says go with 1300 ppm, but I have always had just as good results at the lower PPM and I throw away less fertilizer that way. Never had a deficiency problem and I have grown literally hundreds of different strains with lucas. I don't see the point of using that much bloom when vegetating.
 

oceangreen

Well-Known Member
Don't use lucas for Veg, it is a budding formula. I am growing DWC this time and I dont worry about ml of fertilizer. I just go by PPM. I run them between 800 PPM and 1000 PPM in flowering with lucas. Lucas says go with 1300 ppm, but I have always had just as good results at the lower PPM and I throw away less fertilizer that way. Never had a deficiency problem and I have grown literally hundreds of different strains with lucas. I don't see the point of using that much bloom when vegetating.
what ppm of lucas are you using during veg??
 

CallMeDro

Member
I've been reading about the formula & still a little confused. I'm going 5 gallon dwc buckets, 8 weeks veg. I was going to use the 3 parts of the flora series with koolbloom & floralicious. I plan on just putting in 4 gallons of nute mix per bucket then replace the water after I add in 4 more gallons of water as needed.
So using just the two part lucas formula will give me the same results? & is the flora grow completely useless? Also, if I used 8-16 per gallon, do I use it throughout the entire veg and flower at the same strength? I think I'm missing something there.
 

doogleef

Well-Known Member
Doesn't sound like you are missing anything. I found this formula to be lacking enough N but I like to keep em green until the end and some subscribe to the "Faded is better" line of thought.

If you haven't bought your nutes yet, AN is making a "Jungle Juice" mix that actually has the lucas formula on the label instructions. Cheap too.
 

CallMeDro

Member
So young plants early in the veg cycle & those in the final weeks of flowering both use the 8-16 doses? wouldn't the ppm be the same throughout the entire grow? & with the three part nutes, they add in a lot more nutrients. Just confused on all of this
 

insan3

Well-Known Member
So you are saying that 2 week old plants and 8 week old plants have the same nutrient intake?
you still need to start light and raise it until the plant reaches it max ppm. then just keep feeding the same strenght until you ready to harvest.

example:

week 0-2 0 ppm
week 2-3 200pmm
week 3-4 300pm

etc, you get the idea.
 

doogleef

Well-Known Member
Plants of different stages obviously have different nutrient requirements but the point of the "on size fits all" approach of the Lucas Formula is there is enough of each major requirement available no mater what the stage and not too much to cause burn. Just because it's available does not mean it get's used.

you still need to start light and raise it until the plant reaches it max ppm. then just keep feeding the same strenght until you ready to harvest.

example:

week 0-2 0 ppm
week 2-3 200pmm
week 3-4 300pm

etc, you get the idea.
This is true for seedlings as they come out of the shell with basically everything they need. Clones can take the full mix right away as long as they are well rooted and under HID lighting.

Lucas is only good in flowering.. and during the alter stages as well. it also depends on the strain
While true Lucas fanatics would say this is false... I almost agree with you. As I said earlier, the mix is too light in Nitrogen for me and results in early leaf drop. Green plants are happy plants.

But again... for a basic hydro feed formula... as long as you keep your PH right and dump/refill your res every 14 days, it DOES work and produce quality buds to run just 2 part with the 8/16 from clone to chop. I did it for a long time.
 

Lucius Vorenus

Well-Known Member
I switched from Lucas to just using a 1 part powder, its been great so far. All we do now is add a OK spike at week 4-6 and cut the nutes down 80% and add in Powder KoolBloom or MOAB at 1/2 recommended strength. Works fine.
 

karmeron

Active Member
While true Lucas fanatics would say this is false... I almost agree with you. As I said earlier, the mix is too light in Nitrogen for me and results in early leaf drop. Green plants are happy plants.
.
I dont find it makes my plants light green or premature leaf drop using all the way through. Maybe strain specific? As I have heard it isnt as effective with sativa's. Your PPM's should also be telling you if your plant is getting enough or not, do your ppms drop or go higher when using lucas? They should remain the same when you have it dialled in, and that should mean they are taking in all the nutrients they can.
 

hugetom80s

Well-Known Member
I dont find it makes my plants light green or premature leaf drop using all the way through. Maybe strain specific? As I have heard it isnt as effective with sativa's. Your PPM's should also be telling you if your plant is getting enough or not, do your ppms drop or go higher when using lucas? They should remain the same when you have it dialled in, and that should mean they are taking in all the nutrients they can.
There are so many different variables and so forth... I've run Lucas before (using Advanced Nutrients, I'm partial to them) and I had no problems at all.

However...

The whole time I did (both grows) I was just more tense than usual because I couldn't stop wondering whether it was really as properly balanced nutrition for the plants as all three parts would give. Maybe it's just paranoid, but from what I've seen here not everyone would agree that Lucas works 100%. For me, personally, peace of mind is worth quite a bit.

Even though I had no problems, I just wasn't as happy with my buds either. I'm not gonna lie and say the yield was off because of Lucas, it's just as likely there was some other reason for it. I was worried about my plants the whole grow and that can color your perception quite a bit. So maybe it was Lucas and maybe there wasn't anything wrong but I saw it because I was stressed out. I can't say for sure and like I said I'm not going to lie and say otherwise.

I actually run the Sensi 2-part these days (pH Perfect, natch) so there's no real temptation to give Lucas a try anyway, but I'd rather buy another bottle and sleep easy at night.

Just my 2c.
 

karmeron

Active Member
There are so many different variables and so forth... I've run Lucas before (using Advanced Nutrients, I'm partial to them) and I had no problems at all.

However...

The whole time I did (both grows) I was just more tense than usual because I couldn't stop wondering whether it was really as properly balanced nutrition for the plants as all three parts would give. Maybe it's just paranoid, but from what I've seen here not everyone would agree that Lucas works 100%. For me, personally, peace of mind is worth quite a bit.

Even though I had no problems, I just wasn't as happy with my buds either. I'm not gonna lie and say the yield was off because of Lucas, it's just as likely there was some other reason for it. I was worried about my plants the whole grow and that can color your perception quite a bit. So maybe it was Lucas and maybe there wasn't anything wrong but I saw it because I was stressed out. I can't say for sure and like I said I'm not going to lie and say otherwise.

I actually run the Sensi 2-part these days (pH Perfect, natch) so there's no real temptation to give Lucas a try anyway, but I'd rather buy another bottle and sleep easy at night.

Just my 2c.
Youre right when you say that lucas isnt 100%, nothing is really, you will never reach 100% perfection :)

I think the comment " I'd rather buy another bottle and sleep easy at night" kinda sums up how the nutrient industry have people thinking. They make you think that by buying more you are doing more for your plants, sometimes less is more.
 

hugetom80s

Well-Known Member
Youre right when you say that lucas isnt 100%, nothing is really, you will never reach 100% perfection :)
True, but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying. Excellence is like life: it's a journey rather than a destination.

Just like any other journey, it's up to each person to decide which course and what speed they want to move. What's right for me is right for me, but not necessarily for you. Vice versa. So say, just arbitrarily, that Lucas is 90% of "whatever standard" we're using to define 100% (I was simply saying that it doesn't work perfectly for everyone, every time). If something 95% costs X amount more or requires Y amount more work on the grower's part, is that enough better to justify the cost? Depends on each of us, and what we consider more important. Is 5% worth X dollars or Y work? Maybe for me, maybe for you, but it really doesn't matter to anyone but the people trying to sell it and the individuals deciding whether or not to buy it.

I think the comment " I'd rather buy another bottle and sleep easy at night" kinda sums up how the nutrient industry have people thinking. They make you think that by buying more you are doing more for your plants, sometimes less is more.
You completely missed my point, maybe I didn't make it clear. I'd assumed we all knew that the Lucas formula is simply using 2 parts of a 3-part system, in different ratios than normal, to provide a "complete" nutritional basis for growing your plants. I, like many others, find this to be questionable simplification. The third bottle I'm talking about is the third bottle omitted in the Lucas formula from that 3-part formula. I know for certain that all three together represent a balanced nutritional regimen for my plants because that's the way it's designed. I'm not convinced I can omit one third of the formula and compensate with the other two and still give my plants everything they need. My personal growing history tends to support this and it's worth the few bucks to buy the third bottle and KNOW I'm getting complete nutrients rather than wondering.

It's not a "more is better" thing. It's an "enough is enough" thing. I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough. I know 2 parts of a 2 part is enough. I know that lots and lots of people have grown with 2 of 3 (Lucas formula) without problems, and I know some haven't had the same luck. I'm not talking about going out and buying all 15 or so bottles and running the full line. There's nothing wrong with that, either, if that's what you want to do. But that's not my point.

Peace of mind is my point. Everyone puts a different price on it and again, that's perfectly fine. For me, the cost of buying a bottle of Grow along with the Micro and Bloom, is well-worth the gain in Peace of Mind that I get from it. It's not a matter of being gullible or falling for a "more is more" school of thought. I own more tools than I need in the strictest sense because I'm a firm believer in right tool, right job. Use the right tool for the right job instead of using a similar tool for a job it's not really designed for, and you're much more likely not to get bad results. Can you use slip joint pliers be used to loosen/tighten a nut? Sure, but you're probably going to chew it up a little and possibly strip it out entirely. It's going to be harder to do. Use a crescent wrench or better yet, a socket wrench with a correct-sized socket. But if I could only afford one of those tools and space was a concern, the slip-joint would do more jobs.

It's not some Tool Industry conspiracy that they make so many different sized sockets or that they make so many different tools. If someone made a tool that did multiple jobs just as well as the individual tools for those jobs (and, in keeping with the analogy here, cost less) those other tools wouldn't stand a chance in the market. It's happened before.

My (long-winded) point is that wanting the right tool for the job isn't the same as playing into some imaginary master plan to sell more nutrients.
 

karmeron

Active Member
You completely missed my point, maybe I didn't make it clear. I'd assumed we all knew that the Lucas formula is simply using 2 parts of a 3-part system, in different ratios than normal, to provide a "complete" nutritional basis for growing your plants. I, like many others, find this to be questionable simplification. The third bottle I'm talking about is the third bottle omitted in the Lucas formula from that 3-part formula. I know for certain that all three together represent a balanced nutritional regimen for my plants because that's the way it's designed. I'm not convinced I can omit one third of the formula and compensate with the other two and still give my plants everything they need. My personal growing history tends to support this and it's worth the few bucks to buy the third bottle and KNOW I'm getting complete nutrients rather than wondering.

It's not a "more is better" thing. It's an "enough is enough" thing. I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough. I know 2 parts of a 2 part is enough. I know that lots and lots of people have grown with 2 of 3 (Lucas formula) without problems, and I know some haven't had the same luck. I'm not talking about going out and buying all 15 or so bottles and running the full line. There's nothing wrong with that, either, if that's what you want to do. But that's not my point.

Peace of mind is my point. Everyone puts a different price on it and again, that's perfectly fine. For me, the cost of buying a bottle of Grow along with the Micro and Bloom, is well-worth the gain in Peace of Mind that I get from it. It's not a matter of being gullible or falling for a "more is more" school of thought. I own more tools than I need in the strictest sense because I'm a firm believer in right tool, right job. Use the right tool for the right job instead of using a similar tool for a job it's not really designed for, and you're much more likely not to get bad results. Can you use slip joint pliers be used to loosen/tighten a nut? Sure, but you're probably going to chew it up a little and possibly strip it out entirely. It's going to be harder to do. Use a crescent wrench or better yet, a socket wrench with a correct-sized socket. But if I could only afford one of those tools and space was a concern, the slip-joint would do more jobs.

It's not some Tool Industry conspiracy that they make so many different sized sockets or that they make so many different tools. If someone made a tool that did multiple jobs just as well as the individual tools for those jobs (and, in keeping with the analogy here, cost less) those other tools wouldn't stand a chance in the market. It's happened before.

My (long-winded) point is that wanting the right tool for the job isn't the same as playing into some imaginary master plan to sell more nutrients.
Once again it is how the industry have ppl thinking, you didnt mention that maybe the 3rd bottle isnt needed at all, because all the nutrients in it are in the other 2. So your peace of mind is just "in your mind", according to lucas who came up with the formula, the micro and bloom have everything that is in the veg bottle. As for the right tool for the right job, youd have to prove lucas formula is the "wrong tool" for the job for that point to mean anything.

Your saying " I know 3 parts of a 3 part is enough" - you "know"???? how do you know, have you done any scientific studies or side by side comparisons?? Also you say it is a case of "enough is enough", to say that youd have to prove the 3 part is "enough", its all opinion. As you mentioned its from your "growing experience", which is fine, but that is not "proof".

Dont get me wrong, everyone can use whatever they want, but saying something is incomplete because it omits 1 bottle from a 3 bottle regime doesnt mean it is incomplete, that is just an opinion. Im also not saying the lucas formula is the best thing the world either, but it is a known fact that nutrient manufacturers try to sell people as much as they can wether they need it or not and that is the whole point of the lucas formula, not needing to buy more than a plant needs.

No one mentioned anything about conspiracies, its just business. Any businesses goal is to make money, usually by any means necessary that isnt illegal (and some that are), im not blaming the companies that do this, its the game they are in.

Of course im not saying i "know" anything, it is just my opinon, like everything else you read on a forum ;-)
 
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