Lucas Formula

doogleef said:

I've used it for years now. In reality it is a little light on Nitrogen but gets by on most strains. Soil or hydro?

I'm making the switch to dynagro.

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So you are switching from
GH floranova Grow NPK:7-4-10 to
Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow NPK:7-9-5

The reason I ask is because you said that you have been using Lucas for years.I'm switching and it's time for me to buy nutrients.Dyna-Grow seems to be cost effective also, comming in cheaper than both systems from GH.

It's important to note that Lucas formula is based on FloraNovaBloom, not grow. The primary reason I switched to Dynagro was the lack of Nitrogen and Micros in the lucas blend. The 7-9-5 is a bit high in P for my tastes but I could not find the foliage-pro stuff that i really wanted. It is 9-3-6 (3-1-2)

doogleef said:

Cool. A Lucas thread!
The updated preference is GH FloraNovaGrow.

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Did you mean the updated preferance Gh FloraNovaBloom?Just trying to get my head around this.

Ah! Yes you are correct. That should read FloraNovaBLOOM

Preferably a ratios as doogleaf suggested works best in my opinion 3:1:2. Dyna-grow Foliage-Pro fits the bill. I do like a liitle more calcium and magnesium however. See this thread https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/295437-methodical-scientific-approach-nutrients-nutrient.html

fatman7574 said:

Preferably a ratios as doogleaf suggested works best in my opinion 3:1:2. Dyna-grow Foliage-Pro fits the bill. I do like a liitle more calcium and magnesium however. See this thread https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/295437-methodical-scientific-approach-nutrients-nutrient.html

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Thank You sir, I will give it a read.

doogleef said:

Ah! Yes you are correct. That should read FloraNovaBLOOM

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The Lucas mixture is normally made with FloraMicro and Florabloom, not FloraNovaBloom. FloraNovaBloom is made with humus/fulvic acids. Neither of which are really very beneficial when used with chemical fertilizers. They are basically just natural chelators as used in the formulations. The chemical fertilizer already has chelaters (EDTA and/or EPTA) that work better with less problems.

The final effective NPKMgCa is the same at 8ml/gallon as the 8/16 2-part mix. Lucas uses it himself. Run the calculator. I agree the added humics/fulvics are worthless. Check out his Ask Lucas thread on another site if you need conformation.

doogleef said:

The final effective NPKMgCa is the same at 8ml/gallon as the 8/16 2-part mix. Lucas uses it himself. Run the calculator. I agree the added humics/fulvics are worthless. Check out his Ask Lucas thread on another site if you need conformation.

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Dude 8:16 is a two to one ratio. Two parts Florabloom to one part FloraMicro. Ratios are always giving in the lowest possible numbers. The 8 and 16 stand for ml not ratios. For example. 4:8, 16:32. 2:4. 6:12 are one to two ratios. The amount of one is always mixed at a rate of double the amount of the other.

The numbers of 8:16 are the amounts need to pt rovide that certain TDS or EC. However if you wish a higher or lower EC you simply add tah the ratio of 1:2, not 1:3 or 1:4 etc. Basically the ratio 8:16 is 1:2. 1:2 is proper scientific or Math notation, but 8:16 is not proper m notation for a ratio. It is the notation for the volumetric ml amounts, not ratios. It all pretty much means the same, it is just not soecific in a scientific sense to d call a set of divsible numberas a ratio. Ratios are given in lowest possible terms. ie 1:2 not 8:16

Lucas "formula was introduced in the forums over 6 years ago, the FloraNova line do id not even exist until recently.

The point of telling people its 8micro 16 bloom is so they use a full strength nute. I understand what a ratio is. I'm saying that it is the same blend in 1 bottle. Run the calculator. Or go to the horse's mouth. http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

The current Lucasized Formula with GH Flora is still 0-8-16 as you said. Other nutes, such as PBP can also be made to approximate similar NPKMg values, for example PBPBloom @ 15ml/gal plus 5ml/gal Cal Mag.., or 8ml/gal Flora Nova Bloom

Both with target TDS @.7 of about 1300ppm (use less FNB, like 6ml/gal if your TDS exceeds 1400 with 8ml)


Lucas

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Dude. All i did was correct your inaccurate statement about the formula. No need to get asshurt. The Thread is titled "Lucas Formula". Geez.

Question going by the target of 100-100-200-60,and mixing your own nuts no matter the amount of different products.Let's say you hit close to your target but only have a ppm of 500 and not a high ppm like 1000 (.5 conv).Would this be enough ppm if the levels are optimal?

According to Lucas, both the blend and the concentration are important. The only way this formula works without additives is at "full strength". The reason for that is the low N in the mix. Gotta supply enough total salts to meet the low end of the N needs.

If you are mixing you own nutes I would definitely up the Nitrogen by 50%. Contrary to popular belief the N uptake goes UP in the first 3-4 weeks of flower before dropping off after the "stretch". Feed em enough N during that time and you will be much better off.

doogleef said:

According to Lucas, both the blend and the concentration are important. The only way this formula works without additives is at "full strength". The reason for that is the low N in the mix. Gotta supply enough total salts to meet the low end of the N needs.

If you are mixing you own nutes I would definitely up the Nitrogen by 50%. Contrary to popular belief the N uptake goes UP in the first 3-4 weeks of flower before dropping off after the "stretch". Feed em enough N during that time and you will be much better off.

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Thank You, for the excellent reply.

lucas formula is 8-16 to get you to the proper PPM levels using RO water.... the 2:1 ratio is also correct. i have a large res and all my plants are linked into a drain system. i drain all the water into the res, refill with RO water, then use a 2:1 ratio until i get up to the proper PPM level i want.

i dont use an add back caculator or anything like that. just do yourself a favor and get a nice meter. i know how much formula is needed to raise my PPM up by 100 or so, so i just read the PPM, add the nutes i need, mix it up and pump the formula back into my buckets.


and this formula is GREAT. super easy, great results everytime.

ive had 1 bad yeild using this formula....MY AIR PUMP FAILED. i think the environment is what matters most.


i get around a pound from each 600w light using this formula. good flush for final 10 days, good yeilds, buds taste great and are huge. i think its strain and genetics more than any additive that determines how dense your bud is

sealfever42 said:

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.


Calculated EC/TDS levels:

EC microsiemen:
0-4-8: 946 µS
0-5-10: 1184 µS
0-8-16: 1894 µS

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:
0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592 ppm
0-8-16 = 947 ppm

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:
0-4-8 = 663 ppm
0-5-10 = 829 ppm
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

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Been working with the lucas using FloraNova Bloom now for a grow.My problem is with the ml per gal.He states you should use 8ml to 9ml per gal of Nova bloom.With a ppm .5 conversion of 947.You will not be able to achieve 947 at 8ml or 9ml.

8ml Flora Nova Bloom N-P-K-MG
127-110-184-63 ppm 676

9ml 142-124-207-71 ppm 760

10ml 158-138-230-79 ppm 845

11.2ml 177-154-257-89 ppm 947

But to actually achieve the 947 targeted ppm you will need to run 11.2 ml with N-P-K ratios way higher than the suggested target of 127-110-184-63.So are the N-P-K targets the standard to follow by Lucas or are the targeted PPMs?

Gixxerboy said:

Been working with the lucas using FloraNova Bloom now for a grow.My problem is with the ml per gal.He states you should use 8ml to 9ml per gal of Nova bloom.With a ppm .5 conversion of 947.You will not be able to achieve 947 at 8ml or 9ml.The bottle states 10ml proper dosage.

8ml Flora Nova Bloom N-P-K-MG
127-110-184-63 ppm 676

9ml 142-124-207-71 ppm 760

10ml 158-138-230-79 ppm 845

11.2ml 177-154-257-89 ppm 947

But to actually achieve the 947 targeted ppm you will need to run 11.2 ml with N-P-K ratios way higher than the suggested target of 127-110-184-63.So are the N-P-K targets the standard to follow by Lucas or are the targeted PPMs?

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In the US PPM meters are calibrated for .7. If you are using a .5 meter you can easily convert to .7. All you do is divide your meter reading by 5, then multiply the result by 7.

On a .5 meter, every 500 ppm is 700 ppm on a .7 meter. Thus 1000 PPM on a .5 meter is 1400 on a .7 meter. For lucas, 900 ppm is perfect with a .5 meter.

You can google your particular meter to see what conversion it uses, .5 or .7.

GreenThumbSucker said:

In the US PPM meters are calibrated for .7. If you are using a .5 meter you can easily convert to .7. All you do is divide your meter reading by 5, then multiply the result by 7.

On a .5 meter, every 500 ppm is 700 ppm on a .7 meter. Thus 1000 PPM on a .5 meter is 1400 on a .7 meter. For lucas, 900 ppm is perfect with a .5 meter.

You can google your particular meter to see what conversion it uses, .5 or .7.

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Thanks GTS never knew that conversion before.I'm Using a BlueLab meter .5 conversion.I have not been able to hit 947ppm at 8ml to get their I must run 11ml which comes acording to the nut calculator at a much higher range than the targeted NPK.I was having deficiencies with the low ec at 8ml so,uped it to 11ml to hit the 950ppm mark to try and stop them.

True ppm is based upon the actual concentratiom of the mg/liter of salts added to the nutrient solution. EC converted to ppm is only an approximation based upon pottasium chloride with a conversion factor averaged to 0.50 or to a 422 conversion averaged out to 0.70.

The International Conversion for EC meters is based upon Potassium Chloride (KCl). That conversion factor is 0.50 to 0.57., so an average of 0.50 is used . Some TDS not EC meters use a Sodium Chloride conversion factor which is an averaged 0.50. There is also a conversion factor called the 442 conversion fcator. It is based upon a solution made up of 40% Sodium bicarbonate, 40% Sodium Sulfate and 20% and an average of 0.70 is used. This 442 conversion factor is suppose to simulate natural waters such as lake, river and well water.

As you see these conversion factors do not take into account all salts thet y are absed upon an EC meter being used on drinking water.

Read this thread for a better understanding.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/166514-ppm-ec-cf-aeroponics-help.html

For two weeks old seedlings starting their first nutes using GH Flora micro and Flora Bloom what should I be adding per gallon of tap water. Thanks.