lucas question
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TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
my tap water is 60ppm and a ph of 7. ive never had a need for cal/mag,, i wonder if thats just for r/o water?
i grow in rock wool, not soil and gh maxi series grows really great, i tested nutrients for a few years, then additives and boosters, you would be hard to find a better cost per yield nutrient, maxi always came out on top.. the gh flora series i got same results, very good but a higher cost per run.. as for additives and bloom boosters most are a waste of money,, i like the powder kool bloom as it pushes plants to ripen,, in tests w/ and w/out k bloom in the last 2 weeks of bloom,, plants with kool bloom finish 5-7 days sooner than plants w/out yield are roughly the same.. i like silica in place of ph up, but i use very little, a gallon lasts me about 2 years,, i also like plant life super b+ for veg and clones its a kelp base and seems to really help getting roots established w seedlings and clones it also seems to keep the overall vigour of plants up.. no droopy leaves...
i grow in rock wool, not soil and gh maxi series grows really great, i tested nutrients for a few years, then additives and boosters, you would be hard to find a better cost per yield nutrient, maxi always came out on top.. the gh flora series i got same results, very good but a higher cost per run.. as for additives and bloom boosters most are a waste of money,, i like the powder kool bloom as it pushes plants to ripen,, in tests w/ and w/out k bloom in the last 2 weeks of bloom,, plants with kool bloom finish 5-7 days sooner than plants w/out yield are roughly the same.. i like silica in place of ph up, but i use very little, a gallon lasts me about 2 years,, i also like plant life super b+ for veg and clones its a kelp base and seems to really help getting roots established w seedlings and clones it also seems to keep the overall vigour of plants up.. no droopy leaves...
im4satori
Well-Known Member
the calmag amount will change depending on your source water
the maxi isn't in need of much its already very close to having enough calcium and magnesium so if theres even 10ppm calcium in your source water youll be ok and with in the margin of error
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
All that is way too complicated. After the stretch is over I just started using a Lucas type feed using AN 3 - part nutes. I drop the Grow and am using just the Micro and Bloom in a 1:2 ratio along with Big Bud which is 0-15-35 with 10% S and 20 amino acids and ascorbic and citric acids. My goto bloom booster.
The problem with using ppm is that there are 3 different scales used depending on maker and how they base their readings. I use a Hanna so if I tell a guy to aim for 1000ppm and he uses a pen made by Truncheon he will only be at 730ppm if measured by my pen and be more than 25% lower than he wants. Conversely if he tells me to aim for a thousand according to his pen and I don't know he's using a different scale and I do with using my pen I'll be at 1400ppm and overshoot by 40%.
As long as we know that translation is needed we can use a simple chart like this one to make sure we are speaking the same language and everything works out fine. This chart is the size of a full sheet of paper and ready to print out.
There is a good article here that goes thru it all in more detail if you want to read more about it. The author prefers everyone uses EC too but there's nothing wrong with using PPM as long as you are aware of the differences and compensate for them.
Actually a PPM or TDS meter just reports the EC reading in a different scale like the freezing temp of pure water is 32F or 0C. Exactly the same temp just different ways of expressing that temp.
The problem with using ppm is that there are 3 different scales used depending on maker and how they base their readings. I use a Hanna so if I tell a guy to aim for 1000ppm and he uses a pen made by Truncheon he will only be at 730ppm if measured by my pen and be more than 25% lower than he wants. Conversely if he tells me to aim for a thousand according to his pen and I don't know he's using a different scale and I do with using my pen I'll be at 1400ppm and overshoot by 40%.
As long as we know that translation is needed we can use a simple chart like this one to make sure we are speaking the same language and everything works out fine. This chart is the size of a full sheet of paper and ready to print out.
There is a good article here that goes thru it all in more detail if you want to read more about it. The author prefers everyone uses EC too but there's nothing wrong with using PPM as long as you are aware of the differences and compensate for them.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
For some reason nothing happens when I use the Edit button and I forgot to put in the link to the article so HERE it is.
I think that chart is smaller than I thought but still handy to have.
I think that chart is smaller than I thought but still handy to have.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
no
the flora nova bloom is meant to be used alone and already has proper ratios
it doesn't require anything more
its not lucas
its closet to what I mix (2:1:3) but with more P
The lucas formula website states that floranova could be used as well.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
floranova 8mls per gallon yields
N85
P74
K123
a 2:1:3 ratio would be
N80
P40
K120
so therefore its a 2:1:3 ratio but with extra P
lucas would be 1:1:2
N80
P80
K160
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Here YA go http://lucasformula.comDo you have a link to that as I'd like to check it out?
im4satori
Well-Known Member
7mls flora nova + 30mls silica blast
would yield
N74
P65
K140
Si150
buy the time you ph adjust with phosphoric acid your P would go up considerably to qualify as a true lucas ratio
but the ph would be so very high with that much silica blast and that's A LOT of Si
I wouldn't mix it with that much silica blast but it does show you can easily add silica blast to the flora nova without throwing out the potassium ,calcium, magnesium caution since theres plenty of calcium and magnesium in it
so to the point with the flora nova you can add as much silica blast (up to 30mls per gallon) without issue, provided you can manage the ph rise
would yield
N74
P65
K140
Si150
buy the time you ph adjust with phosphoric acid your P would go up considerably to qualify as a true lucas ratio
but the ph would be so very high with that much silica blast and that's A LOT of Si
I wouldn't mix it with that much silica blast but it does show you can easily add silica blast to the flora nova without throwing out the potassium ,calcium, magnesium caution since theres plenty of calcium and magnesium in it
so to the point with the flora nova you can add as much silica blast (up to 30mls per gallon) without issue, provided you can manage the ph rise
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Thank you kindly.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
i was told jacks classic citrus 20-10-20 at 1/4 tsp per gallon is like the lucas formula.. i bought a lb of jacks citrus and a lb of potassium sulfate 0-0-50,, for veg 1/4tsp of jacks alone,, bloom 1/4tsp of jacks + 1/4tsp of potassium per gallon.. ive tried it in veg but havnt used it in bloom yet...
mytwhyt
Well-Known Member
im4satori
Well-Known Member
that is some very hot fertlizer
and that's a lot of potassium
if your going to us it would weigh it
and only if you grow in soil and ph adjust with phosphoric acid
I would advise mixing it at
per gallon
bloom
2grams jack 20-10-20
0.5 grams potassium sulfate
yields
N106
P23
K145
veg2.5 grams jack
yeilds
N132
P29
K110
personally
I would also consider mixing it like this for bloom
using mono potassium phosphate mkp
2grams jacks
1gram mkp
yields
N106
P83
K162
which is very close to lucas but with the extra N it needs
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
thanks for the info,, im in hydro and ph is high,7 after mix,, i ad ph down to 5.6 and it rizes slowly to 6.2 over 3 days.. by 3 days i have to top off rez and redue ph... that is why i really like gh maxi,, it mixes and puts my ph to perfect at 1 tsp per gallon,,, i rearly ever need to check my ph using it...very simple
im4satori
Well-Known Member
it can work fine for hydro
but youll want to mix it more precisely by measuring it it grams.weight
if you over do the potassium sulfate even by a small % amount it can greatly change your mix... potassium sulfate has 50+% potassium so a small bit goes a long way
at least that's my opinion, just an opinion
but youll want to mix it more precisely by measuring it it grams.weight
if you over do the potassium sulfate even by a small % amount it can greatly change your mix... potassium sulfate has 50+% potassium so a small bit goes a long way
at least that's my opinion, just an opinion