Cannabinoids
Well-Known Member
So after many many MANY ours and packed bowls Ive compiled all of Matts notes/tips/hints that e posted in is Sticky tread....I thought it would be awesome to have a page wit all of is tips/hints so people dont ave to search everywhere. I also included the pictures.
I kept te "outdated info" in to sow the evaluation in just over a year.
Lastly, I only got to page 60 when it appears there is no more tips to give and a lot of repeat questions being answered.. I will continue going through all the pages and adding things that I see.
Matt....if you have any more notes or details you want me to add feel free to add them or pm me the info to add to the main post of this tread.. I would love to help in any way I can.
Enjoy.
2010 notes
First: It is all about the quality of the trichomes. Properly grown Cannabis flowers yield quality hash.
Second: Do not use infected/damaged materials to make hash (IMO).
Third: Is the debate on using fresh (still wet) trim versus using dried (and cured) trim. We'll get to that later. For now, use dried/cured trim, and let it soak for a good twenty minutes before beginning agitation.
Fourth: Is a slew of tricks I've learned for using the BubbleNowXL, more later: insulating the unit+
Fifth: Is the debate on which bags to use. It depends on strain and trichome size, but for now I'll say use the 45 micron as a catcher, the 120 (160 depending) as your second (cooking), and a 190 as your third to catch the garbage.
Sixth: get a quality pump sprayer that you will only use for water. Fill it full of ice water and use it to collect your trichomes.
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Making a simple unit to use in conjunction with your bubblemachine is easy.
You will need:
Two 5 gallon buckets
Drill with a large bit
One hydro table drain, 3/4" or bigger needed.
Hose to match your hydro drain, length depends on how far you far from the door.
One Crate
Directions:
1) Drill many holes in the bottom of one bucket.
2) Drill a hole in the bottom of the other bucket to insert the hydro table drain. I use a 1 7/16" hole saw. They usually sell conical drill bits just for this purpose at grow stores.
3) Sand the rough edges of the large hole, then insert the hydro drain and twist until tight.
4) Hook up your tubing to your hyrdo drain. Circle clamps make sure no leaks, if you bubble indoors like I do!
5) Send the tubing down through the top of the crate, then out the side. The 5 gallon bucket should sit right in the middle of the crate for safety.
6) You are done, congrats, wasn't that simple?
The bucket full of holes sits in the drain bucket. The bags go inside, small to large. The water drains away, making the whole process, when coupled with the XL, super easy.
The above set-up works really well for me. I can bubble indoors so the weather doesn't affect the process. Plus, I watch TV while I bubble. By now you are starting to see how easy making world class bubble is, if the working material is grown properly.
Next I want to address the water that runs through the bags. It can be used for all sorts of normal gardening, like flower beds or whatever. I let my dogs drink it. I drink it too. YUM. I grow vegan organics and do not worry about it. Try it sometime if you trust your total environment
Tips for using the BubbleNowXL:
-Wrap that b*tch with some kind of insulation. Crucial design flaw. An easy fix is to wrap your machine with one of those car window sun blocks, the shiny 'metal' looking ones.
-Temperature of tap water varies greatly, as I learned from a brewer. Something to keep in mind for several reasons.
-Store bought ice sucks. I have a whole article on that, soon to be posted.
-Temperature of the air affects the overall efficiency. Bubble early or late when it is hot out. Or bubble indoors and keep it cool.
-NEVER overfill the work bag, worst move ever. 3/4 full or less.
-The goal is to perform the spinning agitation at as cold of a temperature as possible. Start with ice in the machine, fill the bag with layers of ice/trim, zip and double knot, more ice. Now add water, but only about half way up. Next, turn the machine on, then slowly add more water until the contents barely begin to spin. You can help the bag find it's home in the ice/water mixture and the machine does the rest.
-Don't be afraid to take the screw out that holds the spinning disk in place. Clean down there once and a while.
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awesome tips, Matt! I will be putting your tips and advice into action in the upcoming weeks.
earlier in the thread you stated something about using dried/cured trim vs fresh. I was always under the impression that to make the full melt gooey bubble you had to use fresh trimmings. I ask because I have seen people use dried material and the end product was garbage - more like kief than bubble. - treefiftyse7en
And this is the debate. The dispensary peeps I'm down with tell me that fresh is common these days. I've actually just finished a huge run of fresh/frozen trim. But, in all honesty, I still prefer to work with dry trim. The part about dry trim hash equaling garbage: A) their herb could be mediocre B) they could be impatient, working with dry trim requires more patience. C) they could be amateurs.
The quality of the bubble depends on: the quality of the trim, the patience exhibited while separating(waiting), the lack of greed (less agitation), the screens used, and the final rinsing stage.
Full melt bubble can be made from wet or dry trim. The BBK bubble pictured is from dry trim.
More tips to come. Trimming all day, then going up to Kushland to be in the movie. Matt Rize shows his face to the world!
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Bubble Hash: Hand mixing vs. Drill vs. Machine
I began my ice-water hash making 12 years ago, with big jars full of ice-water and shake. This worked, to my surprise, although getting the water/plant matter off the top without also loosing the hash was hard. High school adventures at its best.
Fast forward to college, and I was really into making kif, on account of the numerous pounds that came and went. I had my mom's silk screen that I found at my grandma's. With that I was making blonde kif, melt depended on quality of bud, of course.
Fast forward again and I got a few bubblebags. At first we agitated our bubble by hand. I say "we" because it took two people to keep the agitation going how we wanted. We used big wooded spoons. The hash was amazing. SUBCOOL uses a silver spoon and hand mixes for only three minutes to make his highest grade "keeper only" bubble.
Then I was using the drill/5 gallon bucket method. When using the drill method you have one major option, and that is the attachment. Many prefer to use paint mixers, but I have always found those to chop up the plant way too much. I prefer extra large wooden spoons. These spoons fit right into the end of power drills. Although they are not as long as paint mixers (still have to keep the drill dry) they are much more gentle on the trim, resulting in higher quality bubble.
The machine has allowed me to step it up a whole level in terms of productions. I also find they perform the perfect kind of agitation for a clean yet efficient separation. The HUGE benefit is that you don't have to do the work. Once you get used to loading the machine and bag you will make hash without much effort at all.
TO LOAD THE MACHINE:
-I load the machine with 20 lbs of ice to begin.
-Then I place the work bag on top of that.
-In the work bag goes the trim and ice.
-Layered ice/trim/ice. I like to run about half and half, and would love to hear what you guys do for this step.
-Fill the work bag 3/4 or less. And about half full if using dry trim, as it will expand when rehydrated.
-Double knot the bag closed, or more, worst mess ever if it opens.
-Add more ice, on top and the sides of the work bag.
-Do not fill the machine too miuch or the separation will not be efficient. Leave at least 6 inches at the top.
-Sometimes I let it sit at this point, if the trim is not frozen.
-Then add water, not enough to see it, that is the trick. You will have enough water just before you see it Rize up through the ice.
-Let it soak, just a little if wet/frozen trim. 20+ minutes for dry trim.
-Agitate 20-30 minutes, depends on many factors. I usually just watch an episode of the Simpsons and call it good.
00-Drain... see: Draining the Machine post tba
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Originally Posted by snew
Great video matt. do you wash the trim again or is it a single wash?
I washed for 30 minutes on soft, and did not do a second wash. If it was some killer indoor I may have, but I opened the bag after the first wash and inspected the trim to see if it was worth a second run. It wasn't.
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To allow my wet hash to dry:
1) I lay it out as-is overnight, sometimes 24 hours if it is cold out.
2) I grate it to a sand texture with my micro-plane, used ONLY for this purpose. Consider this a disposable tool that needs to be replaced if you are a big hash maker. They can't be sharpened like knives/scissors.
3) I lay this wet sandy bubble hash out on a baking sheet used ONLY for this purpose. I use a non-stick, so no metal for the next step.
4) I let it slowly dry, covered with a silk screen, and occasionally 'cut' it up with a card to let it dry from all sides.
5) As soon as it is dry it goes into my hash curing jar.
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
thanks man! when do you actually break it up, after collecting from the bag? while it is wet or after it dries? which hash of mine, judging by looks (obviously) is the best?
Crucial question. If you wait too long the paddy is hard to break up. It has to be still wet, but dry enough to crumble. I like to wait 12 to 24 hours depending on the temp. Right now I have one of those temperature controlled seedling mats under the drying bubble, on low.
Your most tasty looking paddy IMO is the 90-45 BK, super shiny means low contamination, and that the trichomes are rich with oil soluble terpenes (good smell). How do they melt?
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Originally Posted by coopdevillan
So how does one tell if there is another run possible by looking at the trimmings after first run.
I use a 30x lighted scope. 60+ would be better. You will see that the trichomes heads have been broken off, and the stalk remains. If all the heads are gone I send it to the compost pile. If not I do another wash with more ice. This second wash is always of a lesser quality.
Originally Posted by RPsmoke420
Do you dry and cure while the hash is separated? Do you press your hash after the cure? How long of a cure? Or do you prefer unpressed? Just curious. Also a little confused... after you remove hash from the bags... you place the glob on the drying screen... is that how you leave it over night? Or do you break it up first? I immidiately begin breaking the hash down into sand-like texture out of fear of water/mold/funk.
Great questions. I dry the blob as-is overnight, mold/mildew won't grow that fast on bubble that is exposed. By the next day the blob has completely changed texture, and at this point I can already judge the overall qualities of the hash. I can judge the purity by color, which is related to my separation process. I can also judge how melty the hash will be when cured, which mostly depends on strain an if you did a wet or dry trim and separation. By the next day this oily mass doesn't want to crumble, it has melted into a solid. This allows me to really grate the hash into a powder (because it won't crumble), which ensures 100% mold/mildew free bubble hash... and frankly the hashes get the best colors from this drying method.
My blackberry hash picts show both drying methods together. The brown candy is simply broken up by hand, the gold powder was grated, then combined to make this image. That was my secret, but now it is everyones
These are grated/dried/cured hashes: The top pict (romulan) is half melt, and the lower (sour d) is full melt. Same trichome sizes, same methods. The oil soluble terpenes are what makes hash melt, and sour d is a full melt strain. Romulan is not. They are equally potent.
As for pressing, that depends on where it is going... if you feel me . I prefer to smoke unpressed/untouched hash, as it is perfectly pure and smokeable after curing. Dispensary buyers operate on false beliefs surrounding hash, and unfortunately I have to cater to these falsehoods.
This is some of that same romulan bubble, but pressed and sprinkled with unpressed romulan bubble. Just for comparison.
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Originally Posted by RPsmoke420
Any more to add on the wet vs. dry trim? You say you use dry? If you were to use wet, do you bag it and freeze while wet?
I know I have more questions... Just not thinking of em right now. Thanks for sharing the knowledge brother. It's appreciated.
I am learning, thanks to Bubbleman, that processing wet trim hold the most potential for full melt hash. BUT both are equally potent, and melt has nothing to do with overall potency. I've been doing both, as it works into my life. To best freeze fresh trim I lay it out on sheet trays and quick freeze it, then combine it all in a bag after being frozen. If you freeze it all together you will have to break it all up to process... so cold on the hands.
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Originally Posted by Dan Kone
Great thread man.
A few questions.
There are good and bad ways to agitate?
Could agitating too long actually give me a lower quality product?
You mentioned that collections from the 120 bag are cooking grade. Do you have any information on cooking with hash/infusion?
or can you point me in the right direction (link or book maybe?) to find this information?
Good and bad: Yes, gentle is best, the bubblemachine I use is very gentle, way more so than possible with a bucket and paint mixer. Now I won't talk shit on Subcool cause he is THE MAN, but his three minute hand stir bubble hash is abnormally awesome. He must be washing it again after to get the rest of the trichomes, or just be buried in trim. Most people who don't use the machine use a paint mixer, and that IMO is way too rough. Rough agitation breaks up the plant matter, which is bad. The intent is to agitate the ice/water/trim mix to break off the trichome heads without breaking the plant matter at all.
Too long? Yes, and depends. I can wash for up to an hour with the machine on "soft" setting, as long as I keep it cold (add ice as needed). If I were to run it again I would get a little more hash of low quality. Those trichome heads break off VERY easily. Generally 20 minutes on soft in the machine is good. If I were to do a one minute run it might be comparable to Subcool's world class three minute hand stir.
Hash infusion? That post is in the works. I've been doing that forever. I use coconut oil and a yogurt maker (cheapest electric hot plate ever). It takes generally 90 minutes at 212 degrees (water boiling temp) to fully decatboxylate. In a yogurt maker it takes longer, and tastes better. Homemade hash caps are my jam.
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Originally Posted by klassifyme
sub'd
hey matt i noticed when i started making bubble that the biggest rookie msitake is too much water,not enough ice
just my 2cents ,great thread
Thanks for the input. You are totally correct. I find making bubble in the summer is way more difficult than in the winter. In the summer I will use almost twice as much ice per run because I have to keep adding more during the wash.
The machines help to increase the ice:water ratio because they spin from the bottom like a washing machine.
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Originally Posted by swishsweet
What are your personal opinions on bubble hash vs. honey oil? I am finishing my first grow soon and I was considering investing in a bubble bag set or just being cheap and making my own honey oil. I have never made either one, and I have only ever smoked bubble hash once but it was BOMB! I feel like bubble hash looks much easier to store then honey oil but looks a lot more complicated to make. Is a set of bubble bags durable enough to last many hash pulls? Is it worth the money? Why am I asking so many QUESTIONS!?
Okay, Ill come out of the closet and say that I used to work at a well known dispensary. While working there I convinced them to stop carrying BHO as there was a lot of bad local press about idiots blowing up apartments. But properly purged BHO is awesome, and rare IMO. Good BHO should not be sticky or oily, but more like an off white-wax, imo of course
Yes, the bubble gear is worth buying and lasts forever. The actual drain bags last literally decades. The work bag that comes with the machines gets beat up and will need to be replaced after... I'll say... around 200 pounds of trim if you take care if it well.
As for worth the money... yes. Any hash you make will be worth at least 20/gram commercially. my suggestion would be to make your bubble as good as you can. Smoke it with your grower friends. Then convince them to let you make their hash, for a commission of half the final product.
I would try (if you are on a budget) to just buy the bags you need to get started. The 45, the 120, and the 190.
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Originally Posted by stoneyluv
I am in the market for a set of bubble bags and i noticed all the ones i looked at were made of nylon. is there a better material? or are nylon ones just fine?
I use bubbleman's gear, and have no complaints. Nylon seems to work great. But the bags will go moldy/mildewy if left wet and dirty. I compulsively rinse and hang-dry my bags. They have to get 100% dry within a day IMO to be safe. I sometimes clip them to the ceiling fan and turn it on to help them dry faster.
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Originally Posted by |3laze
Nice thread Matt, good info all around. Definitely one of the better "how to" thread on making bubble I have seen. Cool to see someone else using the drain method too. I built a similar set up for my 20 gallon bags about 4 years ago, and man what a difference it makes. One question though - why do you soak your material for 10-20 minutes before you agitate it? Is it to get it cold?
I don't think this was mentioned in this thread, but I always freeze my material first . I've found you tend to get much a much better extraction when you do this. The trichrome heads beak free much easier, allowing you to maximize your yield with a a much shorter mixing time. I've seen some people claim the freezing ruptures the trichromes, but after observing them with a microscope before and after being frozen I've found this to be total BS.
Also just my two cents: Having done many, many batches using both fresh, wet material, and dried material, from the same plants, I've found the fresh stuff always comes out better IMO. I'd agree with you that people that claim dried shake gives you "crap bubble" don't know what the hell they are talking about, since you can pull some amazing quality with dry shake, but the wet always comes out a little better IME.
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I let the dry trim soak in ice water before beginning agitation for two reasons. First: to chill the trim. I make my own ice, so freezer space is always limited. Second: is to rehydrate the plant matter, so it will not crumble or break-up. This gives cleaner separations.
Agreed on wet is better, and dry is also great if you treat the trim gently.
Freezing trim is not bad for it. I've worked with trim that has been frozen for half a year or more and got amazing results. The Blueberry/NL hash pics previously are from fresh frozen trim that sat in someone's freezer for half a year.
20 gallon bags: get it!
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Ahh, OK that makes a lot of sense. I've noticed the same thing on my runs. If I have some shake that I feel is too dry I will re-hydrate it by slipping a tortilla into the bag the day before I freeze it in preparation for the next batch. Over-dried material definitely results in contaminants in your hash.
Do you have an ice maker to recommend? With the amount I've been making the last year or two I think it's finally time to buy one. I'd need a pretty good sized one, the 20 gallon bags use up ice pretty fast.
For ice makers, no I make mine the old fashioned way with lots of trays. I prefer round edge ice cubes, and the larger the better as CA is hot most of the year and I like to do run after run, re-using the unmelted ice from previous runs. I'll also say that this week my local water temps are super low, making the process way more efficient.
Most ice makers are crap as they design the ice to melt fast, which is good for drinks, bad for bubbling. I've been in kitchens for over a decade, have worked with ice from dozens of machines, and homemade cubes are tops.
Originally Posted by klassifyme
i just let it dry in a glass bowl, yesterday i made some with purple urkle and it is super sticky almost full melt but all my sativa hash is waxy hard and crumbly , i suspect its just the strain but nor sure, you'd know better than me thanx
Strain does determine melt. As mentioned earlier: Melt is not an indicator of potency, but of the presence of oil soluble terpenes, which are responsible for part of resin flavor. Indica strains have been selected for a thousand plus years to make good hash, and that is still very true to this day. Cannabis sativa hash is somewhat of a new product, as traditionally C. sativa flowers are smoked and C. indica flowers are turned into dry screen hash.
Now it is all mixed up, and most strains (actually varieties but we don't need to go into semantics) are a combination of C. indica and C. sativa genetics. Hash melt is truly a mix-n-match of different genetics. We should start a library of strain and melt quality.
Don't worry about meltyness, it is the affect on your head/body that is the true judge, and we all have unique biochemistry, so varieties affect us differently. If you want full melt, grow indica I'm growing Jack Herer because it gives me a "happy euphoria" that I've found in only this strain, green crack, lilikoi, and strawberry cough. All three of those strains make not-fullmelt hash and give low hash yields... but the high is right. Feel me?
I used to do DJ's Blueberry and BCSC Big Blue, for years. The hybrid made WAY better bubble than the pure. The hybrid, with NL and 80% indica was a world above the pure 60% indica in terms of hash. But the pure flowers were so amazing in flavor and color, and were the prettiest I've grown. So... I like to grow an indica hybrid for bubbling and a sativa hybrid for smoking.
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Originally Posted by RPsmoke420
Good Morning! Hope you had a good Turkey Day man.
Got a couple questions for ya...
After you have removed the hash from your bags... do you place the "clump" in a drying screen? Do you press the screen or place it between towels at all? How do you store the "clump" over night? or was I mistaken?
You mention you leave them as is to dry up some over night. The next day is when you break out the microplane and sifter, right?
I tried doing this over the weekend and was having a hard time. Like I said, I had always began breaking up the hash immediately after removing it from the bag. I would start breaking it through the sifter (worried about mold). After leaving the "clump" out over night, it became like super putty. No way to "grind it" and I don't see how I could get a sand texture out of it. Just super soft and pliable/sticky. It would just gum up and fill the wholes in the microplane.
Obviously I made a mistake somewhere. Wondering if you had any tips.
and for what it's worth - I picked up a large silver spoon and retired my old wooden one. I tried the 3 minute mix... WOW. I upped it to 5 minutes and was still pretty impressed. I think that's what I will stick with. Then do a second run for 30 minutes and use for cooking. Just thought I'd share. Made some amazingly golden, pure hash.
Yes, after removing the wet clump it goes on the drying screen. I put a towel underneath, and cover the tray with a silk screen for the night. No pressing or paper towels, the drying will happen next. The next day I have to judge if the hash is ready to break up, it may take an additional 12 hours. If the hash has dried out enough to go from crumbly to an oily mass, then I know it is ready to break up.
When you break it up too early the hash will form smaller clumps and not easily grate. Its all about the right wet/dryness to grate it properly. Like I said before, depending on your household temps this could be overnight or up to 24 hours. I find waiting to break it up is the best way to get the "crystal" form bubble I prefer. Mold won't grow overnight. If it was gumming up the holes your bubble was either too wet or too warm. Sound like you were grating some super high grade 5 minute hand stir... and that might need to be chilled pre-grating as the oil content is very pure.
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Originally Posted by Parker Lemire
Mr. Ganja,
I made bubble hash for the first time the other day, and enjoyed it very much.
As you know, what was at the bottom of the bag was a pile of wet trichomes(and other stuff im sure)....
I scooped it out with a spoon and put it on a paper plate to dry.
Now its dry and I want to make it into a pliable ball of dark hash.
I tried ironing it with wet news paper,with wax paper, and with a hot metal spatula.(just messing around)
If you wouldnt mind making some suggestions to help, I would appreciate it very much!
Thanks for your knowledge...
I would not press an hash until you are certain it is dry. At that point there is little reason to press other than long term storage. If you plan on smoking this hash, don't press it, it will only be harder to smoke.
If you must press it, use a glass jar of boiling water and press lightly. Simple and not too hot. Rize UP!
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Mr. Ganja... lol... is that me...
Originally Posted by upthearsenal
Although, you mentioned sprinkling the keef onto a bowl, I've always pressed my keef and heated it in to a malleable ball. I noticed when I did this it tasted better than the initial keef, or was I just imagining things...
there are so many opinions on this. I think pressing/heating releases the terpenes, so can taste some of them before they get burnt. but i usually don't press or heat either.
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2011 NOTES!
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
whats up matt...how you been? which bubble bags you recommend? found any good ones for a reasonable price? i need to upgrade from my shitty 1 gallons to a 5gal set.
I'm using just the 45 and the 160 now, pretty much for every strain. The work bag is 225 or something like that, for the machine. I like the company (freshheadies.com aka bubbleman's site). Write them an email, give them some links showing how much time you spend talking about this stuff and ask for a discount
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
Man that looks great! Can you eleborate on your drying process? I dont ever get that texture when i make bubble hash. Its usually runny, then after drying its more of a pressed piece of hash. How do you shake it out like that?
Great question.
See the trick is to let is dry as a 1/4" thick patty overnight. Then the microplane comes in. This part is all about my decade of kitchen technique, you will get a feel for the grater and how hard to push for perfect grating. You will learn what it feels like when the patty is ready to grate after a couple battles with "too wet or too dry" pattys. When I gently push against the teeth, they should really bite in and make tiny ribbons of hash. The patty will start to deform if you go too fast, push too hard, or hands are too hot, lol . That's the best imo. The temperature and dryness of your still wet hash chunk is key. Sometimes I set the chunk of hash in the fridge before grating, but if you do this too long the grating takes forever and instead of nice ribbons you get powder. Too cold is much like grating too dry hash pattys. This is an old picture. My new technique does not use the strainer to catch any bits that break off accidentally. I just grate right onto a teflon pan, used only for this purpose. The little chunks that break off accidentally get chilled and VERY carefully grated.
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Originally Posted by stoneyluv
All fantastic info!! I gotta ask, what did you mean by rinsing well?
This is something I do that has gotten a lot of attention, mostly good, lol.
It's in the video I made for youtube. The last 5 minutes or so of the video is that part. Warning, I was super high by that point in the day and it was a hand held part. you can start at 11:00 minutes in if you are impatient.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e_wlN4cSmbY
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
Right on, so you are pushing the pucks when they are still somewhat moist through a screen. If it powders up, i let it dry too much? Do you then press it back to a puck after drying has occured? It seems nice to have powdered hash on the spot rather than having to break it up.
Why do people press it anyway? Storage?
People press it because they don't know how to make hash...
I only press, very lightly, for long distance trips. That hash puck was for TV, and was very lightly hand shaped for the pics and video. After that I broke the puck back up into powdery waxy crumble. All my hash is loose like in the pictures.
Still somewhat moist: yes, but the point is to not push it through the screen, but to let the micorplane do the work.
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
Not sure what you mean by micorplane....let me know brotha! im gettin ready to do a hash run today. ive realized ive never made hash with pure bud. what is your opinion comparing shake hash to bud hash? i dont use fan leaves, only sugar leaves.
Microplane is a name brand for graters. Sorry, I also spelled it wrong in that last post.
I've made hash with buds many times. It's not that easy because you have to break the buds up really well, trim is ready to wash. But buds made great hash if you take the time to break them up, without smashing all the trichomes...
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
ok so the microplane breaks it up and it falls on the screen and through it? the stuff that doesnt fall through, gets microplaned again so it does fall through? nice tek bro!
That was my old technique, training wheels if you will because your hash patty will break up into chunks if it's too wet or too thin.
Now I just use the microplane grater and a teflon coated baking sheet. If you use a non-teflon baking sheet, or anything else really, the hash will stick to it and you will have to deal with that. As the broken up hash dries I move it around and "cut" up the clumps with a plastic card, lol, real high tek
My tip for your first run is to not over agitate, do it gently and slowly for a longer amount of time. Assuming you are hand stirring. I used to hand stir for a hour with a large wooden spoon, tag-team with a buddy. The more ice:water, the harder to stir, but colder is better so do some arm and back stretching.
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Originally Posted by stoneyluv
what is the consequence if I over agitate?
BTW... I requested this a sticky with potroast. and also, thanks for the rep! you bumped me to mr. ganja!
If you over agitate the hash will be contaminated with broken up bits of plant matter, green stuff. I've been cutting back my agitation over the course of the past couple years. Now I do 15 to 30 minutes of "soft" setting agitation. I used to do an hour. Fresh trim gets agitated slightly longer than the dry.
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Originally Posted by nl3004.kind
there is absolutely no evidence that a properly cured sugar or fan leaf has more potency, in addition, it does become substantially more brittle as well as there is some evidence (based on experimentation) that the trichome heads do tend to degrade over the span of a long cure, and there are decreased yields in even well cured trim vs wet (aka fresh) trim...
Than time span is about 6 months from my experience. There is also a factor relating the genetics. Some varieties tend to make hash that holds up better over a long time. I do long term storage of hash samples for testing. Ancient hash culture considered hash premature until it had aged months to years depending on the specific culture.
Just made some amazing full melt blackberry kush bubble from outdoor that was dry and stored since november.
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Originally Posted by porterhouse
Hey fantastic post man. Thanks for getting this all together. I wish I would have seen this before I picked up my set of bags... I went with the 1 gal 4 bag set and am wondering how thigs will work out.
So that set looks like...
-1 gallon 220 micron work bag
-1 gallon 160 micron contaminant removal bag
-1 gallon 73 micron crystal collection bag
-1 gallon 25 micron crystal collection bag
Should I use the 73 or 25? you stop at 45... so is the 25 just going to be a bitch to drain and separate the green, but the 73 too big to catch the good stuff? and for indoor, use the 160 as the "food grade" bag?
just way too much shit to sort out. Thanks man.
25 to 45 is garbage imo. Folks like it because it's better than nothing. But I smoke hash all day and night and can't mess around with mid-grade bubble. And yes, that 25 bag drains slow as hell, all the contaminants you've rinsed through your "catcher" screen gets stuck in the 25.
For indoor or outdoor, there is very little difference when it comes to trichomes heads. The 76 will catch primo hash, but you will loose some, 45 to 76, so if you have the time just use all 3 and keep the grades separate. Then smoke them separately on different days and tell us what you think.
My set up is technically three bags. A 220 in the machine. Then a 120 or 160, usually 160, I throw that out now and cook with primo . Then a 45 to catch the primo. Melt depends on variety and how well it was grown. Some popular full melt varieties are sour d, blackberry kush, og, blue dream.
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
i didnt get the 25 bag but mine is 45 or something. i like the 90 micron myself. with what you got, i think you will like the 73 the best. different plants bare different size trichomb heads, you may find a higher quality hash in one bag per strain as opposed to another bag, different strain.
That is generally true. But also, most of the varieties we grow are hybrids that are somewhere in the middle of the genetic spectrum. I've found that if you agitate correctly, then you can just catch everything 45 up, and you get (obviously) better yields. But I do my rinsing the hash thing every time. I used to use all 8 bags and figure out what was best for each variety, then I noticed it was the same bag, the white bag. Sometimes the second bag changes, for old dry material or under developed material.
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
i agree i like using wet trim reduced for a day and then put in freezer, but doesnt thc conversion happen within the trichomb?imo, if someone has proven curing to work on bud, it should apply to leaf matter as well. that is, since both bud and leafs have trichombs. not tryin to argue, just a friendly debate!
Decarboxylation occurs slightly as the gland heads dry. This happens after you make the hash and dry it out, the same as drying the gland heads on the plant then separating and collecting them. Decarbing really occurs when ya smoke it. Raw hash and bud has little active THC.
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Originally Posted by Da Almighty Jew
Matt, How long can i store dry trim before it goes bad? and how should i store it?
For up to 6 months. As air-tight, cool, and dark as possible. I keep extra trim in turkey bag, inside 5 gallon buckets with lids because they seal well.
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Originally Posted by Dan Kone
Ever used dry ice instead of normal ice for making hash? If so what were the results like compared to normal ice?
yeah, i do a dry sift w dry ice sometimes. low yield great results. also ive used dry ice with the ice water in small amounts, its not really needed for me. i just run w lots of ice and a little water, the mix is around 33.0 degrees F
use fresh frozen, which means wet trim.
do not overmix. gentle is key. no power drills. hand stir or machine style.
use RO water and ice.
clean everything obsessively.
break the hash up as well as possible to let it dry. then dont touch it until you smoke it.
use lots of bags. expect low yields if you want quality.
crap material makes crap hash. preme, damaged, browned ect all ruin hash.
I make my ice wax from buds like this vegan organic
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Originally Posted by mellokitty
hey prof rize i need a bit of a recap: i know that fresh frozen trim is ideal, but i simply didn't have the freezer space this time around so i had to dry it all.
what should i do differently with dry trim?
I use dry trim sometimes. You want to let it soak in the ice water for a good 20 to 30 minutes to let the trim rehydrate. This reduces the plant matter contamination in the extract. Also, since its dry you want to handle the trim as gently as possible to keep the broken plant matter to a minimum. This starts at the trim table and holds true until the end of extraction. Using fresh (not prefrozen) trim also has given me great results. We call it a living plant extraction since the trichomes are extracted minutes after the plant is harvested.
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Originally Posted by mellokitty
thank you!
hopefully by the next time around i have more space in the deepfreeze. i've been preserving like crazy and it's kinda stuffed to the gills right now.
another thing:
the test runs i've been running are, well, the 73 is like wetted kief none of them are melty.
i'm wondering what factors i should be considering here? i took the shake from my medibles stash so it's 6 months to a year old, it's dry, i let it sit for 1/2 hr before i ran it in the payload washer for 20 min, i didn't overload the workbag.
i did one batch where i drained it right away, and one where i let it sit for about 15min after mixing, i'm not entirely sure there's much difference between the 2, if at all......
it seems like every time i try to use dry shake for bubble i run into problems. what am i doing wrong? <--whine
yeah, old trim makes dry non-melty hash usually. sounds like it is the material. My best hash comes from fresh buds. Melt is mostly determined by strain and how well the plant was grown. Most indicas do not make melty hash. Sour makes great hash, most sativas do, although they yield way less. And pulling early ruins the hash melt and yield. Mixing varieties also throws off melt. What are you working with? I've updated just about every step of my hash tech since I made the video and this thread.
Updates include:
using more bags: 220 (work), 220, 190, 160, 120, 73, 45
using no ice in the work bag (for machines)
using all RO water
using (chlorine free) paper towels instead of cloth to wick out the water after collection
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Originally Posted by mellokitty
right now i have some of a friend's tall kush trim (dry, about a month old) and my own og kush trim (dry, just bagged a couple days ago).
i'll probably be experimenting with it in the next couple days here.
for bags, i have a 4 bagger (5 gals).
"pur" filtered water.
other than that, i'm going to have to pickle some fish before next harvest to make room in the deepfreeze
are you "let it settle before you drain" (if so, how long?) or "drain right away"?
I drain right away, then rinse the remaining trichs down, off the ice.
Can't you smoke the fish? I'll bet you are well skilled in smoking
post edit:
Pur filtered is okay, but that doesn't remove the dissolved solids like RO. Maybe I'm just a purrrrrfectionist.
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Originally Posted by Dan Kone
I've noticed you never use a 25 bag. What's the reason?
because i only keep the purest grades. the 25 bag has the most contamination. the 25 is good tho, and tested as high or higher THC% than the other grades.
Check out page 46 of july 2011 kush mag. Steep Hill Lab and I did a project looking at hash by micron. http://issuu.com/kushdailybuds/docs/kushnocal_july11
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Originally Posted by poplars
so I have a question...
I've read everything in this thread about soaking for 15-20 mins before putting the ice in and disturbing the trichs in the washer, I've read about how long to wash.
but what I'm wondering is, do you let the trichs settle directly AFTER the wash stops? or do you let it drain into the 5 gal bucket first THEN allow the trichs to settle?
everything else is very well and thoroughly explained, I probably missed the part that explained this.
you dont need to let the trichome heads settle. most just go with the water when draining. then I rinse the ice and machine clean with chilled water to collect any trichs that stayed behind after the initial drain.
Why I prefer physical extractions (dry screen and ice water) over solvent extractions (BHO, QWISO, CO2, N2) extractions.
1) safety
2) separation of trichome heads by size
3) legal under 215
I could write all day about each of these but I'll briefly elaborate.
1) Safety: The danger of all solvents, especially bho, is the risk of fires and explosions during extraction. People have been dying from trying to make bho for many years, it happened just a few months ago. An explosion is reported almost every week, and that is just the big ones that make the news. If people don't die they sometimes just lose their hands, a local man has been in a coma for the past couple months. He is a friend of a friend, its a small world ey? Obviously smaller pan fires and explosions are hidden because of the illegality of the extraction. I could post dozens of news reports of this happening, but its really not needed. BHO explosions are happening to medical marijuana patients, this info also makes the news.
2) Separation of trichome heads by size.
I could write an entire thesis on this working with Steep Hill Lab. To sum it up: small trichomes are different than large trichomes chemically, medium being the preference for smoking. The article in July 2011 Kush Magazine, on hash, that I worked on with Steep Hill, clearly shows that the different bags have different chemical analysis, and thats just looking at three compounds of the hundreds of cannabinoids, terpenoids, and flavonoids that combine synergistically to create what we call "high". Terpenoids act as agonists and antagonists to modulate the high, this is just becoming known.
I will clearly pose the hypothesis here and now that the medium sized trichomes (73 to 120 microns) have the highest terpene to weight levels. This is why the 73 to 120 grades are the most melty, oily, and flavorful.
Here is an example. Sour D 73 and 45. The 73 is Amber, the 45 is Red. They are different chemically, and its not just a slight difference in THC.
Dry ice can be used to the make the ice water as cold as possible. Too much and the slurry will freeze so you gotta be careful. Folks also do dry ice dry-screening, followed by an ice water rinse.
CO2 extractors are from eden labs.
Originally Posted by CollieMan1
Once grated and dried in a pile..does the hash go directly into the cure jar for the final process before smoking?
yes. drying takes from 24 to 48 hours depending on several factors like ambient RH and Temp. Basically every other ice technique takes several days to a week to dry completely. maximum surface area means fastest drying.
Originally Posted by 420forme
Thanks for all the great info Matt, has really helped the quality of my bubble. I do have one question, why don't you use a smaller 25 micron bag? Isn't that the cleanest seperation?
no, the 25 is usually not the cleanest, that bag catches the tiny green chlorophyll particles. i dont even use a 25 anymore because it drains so slow and makes a cooking grade hash.
Originally Posted by mellokitty
hey prof rize... got my hands on some fresh unfrozen sugar leaf.... anything special/different i should do? <3
freeze it asap. then use it after 24+ hours of freezing. you don't need to soak to rehydrate before extraction like you would with dry trim.
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Originally Posted by watashi
Matt,
Thank's for such a helpful thread - though i've been catching ice hash info from many sites around, I found a lot new and practical tips here. Respects.
I have one question related to curing process. Many sources and my personal talks with local guys in India, for example, say that hash has to be cured at least one year to become REAL HASH. As far as I'm only doing my first steps towards ice water hash and consider to strore my product for a while, can you advise on maximum time or oldest hash you had occasion to smoke? Was it your hash? What is the best way to store IWH let's say for one year?
In Uzbekistan (former USSR republic - now independant state near China boarder) one guy sweared to me that he used to smoke local hash stored since 1945 and it was awesome??
Hash does not need curing to be hash, that is only for old school contaminated hash. Pure extracts can be smoked about 24 hours after being made, although they continue to cure over a couple weeks. After about 6 months the potency actually goes down as THC is converted to CBN.
Curing is generally to allow the green matter to breakdown, that applies to flower and extracts. When you have no green matter, the cure is much shorter.
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Originally Posted by Bodhi Diesel
Matt, How do you keep from contacting the Micro-Plane with fingertips as it crumbles??
Experience and careful work. I have 1000 hours microplane experience from my kitchen career. Once you get to the end you can grate with the grain of the razors instead of against to crumble what is left without shaving your finger tips.
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Originally Posted by midwestmmj
i dunno if this has been asked, but i followed subs method of handstirring with some cheap bags off ebay, off half of a plastic bags worth of trim and some small buds i managed 3 grams of hash, i didnt collect anything in the 160 cept straight garbage, absolutely nothing in the 73 but ALL in the 25. its been sitting out for the past 5 days and still has a texture like that of taffy, i thought it was supposed to dry and crumble in 24-48 hrs...
smoking it is alot like smoking resin, sure it bubbles and you get a mad good hit but theres hardly any taste. did i do something wrong? is this good hash for smoking or should i just use it for cooking, also if i used it for cooking, how much should i put in a single batch of brownies? is 2 grams of bubble enough or am i way undershooting it lol. ill post pics if u guys need them.
Sounds like immature product. You should have got a decent amount in the 73 bag... and don't make hash the way Sub does lol
The 160 should be garbage, the 73 should be the highest purity, and the 25 catches the immature trichomes. Taffy is good, but it means your hash is probably still wet on the inside. The taste is 100% dependent on the grow, and again if there is no taste it probably means the starting material was not mature.
If you want to make brownies, I would put at least a 1/4 ounce of hash in the batter. That way you can eat just one brownie instead of the whole pan.
The major step you missed in making ice water extract is breaking it up after making it, to let it dry. Thats how I get such pretty colors.
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Dryin temps and humidity
From High Times January 2013 - Wax On, Making Soleventless hash the Nikka T way Story by Ry Prichard
Nikka T on the subject of Drying temp and humidity.
"Also, Keep temperatures in the drying area between 40F and 68F depending on how quickly you want to remove the water (which will vary according to strain), and keep the relative humidity between 15 and 50 percent. there are certain strains were I like to keep the humidity and temps on the higher end of that range to create the appearance desired by the patient or client...." - Nikka T
I kept te "outdated info" in to sow the evaluation in just over a year.
Lastly, I only got to page 60 when it appears there is no more tips to give and a lot of repeat questions being answered.. I will continue going through all the pages and adding things that I see.
Matt....if you have any more notes or details you want me to add feel free to add them or pm me the info to add to the main post of this tread.. I would love to help in any way I can.
Enjoy.
2010 notes
First: It is all about the quality of the trichomes. Properly grown Cannabis flowers yield quality hash.
Second: Do not use infected/damaged materials to make hash (IMO).
Third: Is the debate on using fresh (still wet) trim versus using dried (and cured) trim. We'll get to that later. For now, use dried/cured trim, and let it soak for a good twenty minutes before beginning agitation.
Fourth: Is a slew of tricks I've learned for using the BubbleNowXL, more later: insulating the unit+
Fifth: Is the debate on which bags to use. It depends on strain and trichome size, but for now I'll say use the 45 micron as a catcher, the 120 (160 depending) as your second (cooking), and a 190 as your third to catch the garbage.
Sixth: get a quality pump sprayer that you will only use for water. Fill it full of ice water and use it to collect your trichomes.
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Making a simple unit to use in conjunction with your bubblemachine is easy.
You will need:
Two 5 gallon buckets
Drill with a large bit
One hydro table drain, 3/4" or bigger needed.
Hose to match your hydro drain, length depends on how far you far from the door.
One Crate
Directions:
1) Drill many holes in the bottom of one bucket.
2) Drill a hole in the bottom of the other bucket to insert the hydro table drain. I use a 1 7/16" hole saw. They usually sell conical drill bits just for this purpose at grow stores.
3) Sand the rough edges of the large hole, then insert the hydro drain and twist until tight.
4) Hook up your tubing to your hyrdo drain. Circle clamps make sure no leaks, if you bubble indoors like I do!
5) Send the tubing down through the top of the crate, then out the side. The 5 gallon bucket should sit right in the middle of the crate for safety.
6) You are done, congrats, wasn't that simple?
The bucket full of holes sits in the drain bucket. The bags go inside, small to large. The water drains away, making the whole process, when coupled with the XL, super easy.
The above set-up works really well for me. I can bubble indoors so the weather doesn't affect the process. Plus, I watch TV while I bubble. By now you are starting to see how easy making world class bubble is, if the working material is grown properly.
Next I want to address the water that runs through the bags. It can be used for all sorts of normal gardening, like flower beds or whatever. I let my dogs drink it. I drink it too. YUM. I grow vegan organics and do not worry about it. Try it sometime if you trust your total environment
Tips for using the BubbleNowXL:
-Wrap that b*tch with some kind of insulation. Crucial design flaw. An easy fix is to wrap your machine with one of those car window sun blocks, the shiny 'metal' looking ones.
-Temperature of tap water varies greatly, as I learned from a brewer. Something to keep in mind for several reasons.
-Store bought ice sucks. I have a whole article on that, soon to be posted.
-Temperature of the air affects the overall efficiency. Bubble early or late when it is hot out. Or bubble indoors and keep it cool.
-NEVER overfill the work bag, worst move ever. 3/4 full or less.
-The goal is to perform the spinning agitation at as cold of a temperature as possible. Start with ice in the machine, fill the bag with layers of ice/trim, zip and double knot, more ice. Now add water, but only about half way up. Next, turn the machine on, then slowly add more water until the contents barely begin to spin. You can help the bag find it's home in the ice/water mixture and the machine does the rest.
-Don't be afraid to take the screw out that holds the spinning disk in place. Clean down there once and a while.
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awesome tips, Matt! I will be putting your tips and advice into action in the upcoming weeks.
earlier in the thread you stated something about using dried/cured trim vs fresh. I was always under the impression that to make the full melt gooey bubble you had to use fresh trimmings. I ask because I have seen people use dried material and the end product was garbage - more like kief than bubble. - treefiftyse7en
And this is the debate. The dispensary peeps I'm down with tell me that fresh is common these days. I've actually just finished a huge run of fresh/frozen trim. But, in all honesty, I still prefer to work with dry trim. The part about dry trim hash equaling garbage: A) their herb could be mediocre B) they could be impatient, working with dry trim requires more patience. C) they could be amateurs.
The quality of the bubble depends on: the quality of the trim, the patience exhibited while separating(waiting), the lack of greed (less agitation), the screens used, and the final rinsing stage.
Full melt bubble can be made from wet or dry trim. The BBK bubble pictured is from dry trim.
More tips to come. Trimming all day, then going up to Kushland to be in the movie. Matt Rize shows his face to the world!
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Bubble Hash: Hand mixing vs. Drill vs. Machine
I began my ice-water hash making 12 years ago, with big jars full of ice-water and shake. This worked, to my surprise, although getting the water/plant matter off the top without also loosing the hash was hard. High school adventures at its best.
Fast forward to college, and I was really into making kif, on account of the numerous pounds that came and went. I had my mom's silk screen that I found at my grandma's. With that I was making blonde kif, melt depended on quality of bud, of course.
Fast forward again and I got a few bubblebags. At first we agitated our bubble by hand. I say "we" because it took two people to keep the agitation going how we wanted. We used big wooded spoons. The hash was amazing. SUBCOOL uses a silver spoon and hand mixes for only three minutes to make his highest grade "keeper only" bubble.
Then I was using the drill/5 gallon bucket method. When using the drill method you have one major option, and that is the attachment. Many prefer to use paint mixers, but I have always found those to chop up the plant way too much. I prefer extra large wooden spoons. These spoons fit right into the end of power drills. Although they are not as long as paint mixers (still have to keep the drill dry) they are much more gentle on the trim, resulting in higher quality bubble.
The machine has allowed me to step it up a whole level in terms of productions. I also find they perform the perfect kind of agitation for a clean yet efficient separation. The HUGE benefit is that you don't have to do the work. Once you get used to loading the machine and bag you will make hash without much effort at all.
TO LOAD THE MACHINE:
-I load the machine with 20 lbs of ice to begin.
-Then I place the work bag on top of that.
-In the work bag goes the trim and ice.
-Layered ice/trim/ice. I like to run about half and half, and would love to hear what you guys do for this step.
-Fill the work bag 3/4 or less. And about half full if using dry trim, as it will expand when rehydrated.
-Double knot the bag closed, or more, worst mess ever if it opens.
-Add more ice, on top and the sides of the work bag.
-Do not fill the machine too miuch or the separation will not be efficient. Leave at least 6 inches at the top.
-Sometimes I let it sit at this point, if the trim is not frozen.
-Then add water, not enough to see it, that is the trick. You will have enough water just before you see it Rize up through the ice.
-Let it soak, just a little if wet/frozen trim. 20+ minutes for dry trim.
-Agitate 20-30 minutes, depends on many factors. I usually just watch an episode of the Simpsons and call it good.
00-Drain... see: Draining the Machine post tba
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Originally Posted by snew
Great video matt. do you wash the trim again or is it a single wash?
I washed for 30 minutes on soft, and did not do a second wash. If it was some killer indoor I may have, but I opened the bag after the first wash and inspected the trim to see if it was worth a second run. It wasn't.
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To allow my wet hash to dry:
1) I lay it out as-is overnight, sometimes 24 hours if it is cold out.
2) I grate it to a sand texture with my micro-plane, used ONLY for this purpose. Consider this a disposable tool that needs to be replaced if you are a big hash maker. They can't be sharpened like knives/scissors.
3) I lay this wet sandy bubble hash out on a baking sheet used ONLY for this purpose. I use a non-stick, so no metal for the next step.
4) I let it slowly dry, covered with a silk screen, and occasionally 'cut' it up with a card to let it dry from all sides.
5) As soon as it is dry it goes into my hash curing jar.
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
thanks man! when do you actually break it up, after collecting from the bag? while it is wet or after it dries? which hash of mine, judging by looks (obviously) is the best?
Crucial question. If you wait too long the paddy is hard to break up. It has to be still wet, but dry enough to crumble. I like to wait 12 to 24 hours depending on the temp. Right now I have one of those temperature controlled seedling mats under the drying bubble, on low.
Your most tasty looking paddy IMO is the 90-45 BK, super shiny means low contamination, and that the trichomes are rich with oil soluble terpenes (good smell). How do they melt?
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Originally Posted by coopdevillan
So how does one tell if there is another run possible by looking at the trimmings after first run.
I use a 30x lighted scope. 60+ would be better. You will see that the trichomes heads have been broken off, and the stalk remains. If all the heads are gone I send it to the compost pile. If not I do another wash with more ice. This second wash is always of a lesser quality.
Originally Posted by RPsmoke420
Do you dry and cure while the hash is separated? Do you press your hash after the cure? How long of a cure? Or do you prefer unpressed? Just curious. Also a little confused... after you remove hash from the bags... you place the glob on the drying screen... is that how you leave it over night? Or do you break it up first? I immidiately begin breaking the hash down into sand-like texture out of fear of water/mold/funk.
Great questions. I dry the blob as-is overnight, mold/mildew won't grow that fast on bubble that is exposed. By the next day the blob has completely changed texture, and at this point I can already judge the overall qualities of the hash. I can judge the purity by color, which is related to my separation process. I can also judge how melty the hash will be when cured, which mostly depends on strain an if you did a wet or dry trim and separation. By the next day this oily mass doesn't want to crumble, it has melted into a solid. This allows me to really grate the hash into a powder (because it won't crumble), which ensures 100% mold/mildew free bubble hash... and frankly the hashes get the best colors from this drying method.
My blackberry hash picts show both drying methods together. The brown candy is simply broken up by hand, the gold powder was grated, then combined to make this image. That was my secret, but now it is everyones
These are grated/dried/cured hashes: The top pict (romulan) is half melt, and the lower (sour d) is full melt. Same trichome sizes, same methods. The oil soluble terpenes are what makes hash melt, and sour d is a full melt strain. Romulan is not. They are equally potent.
As for pressing, that depends on where it is going... if you feel me . I prefer to smoke unpressed/untouched hash, as it is perfectly pure and smokeable after curing. Dispensary buyers operate on false beliefs surrounding hash, and unfortunately I have to cater to these falsehoods.
This is some of that same romulan bubble, but pressed and sprinkled with unpressed romulan bubble. Just for comparison.
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Originally Posted by RPsmoke420
Any more to add on the wet vs. dry trim? You say you use dry? If you were to use wet, do you bag it and freeze while wet?
I know I have more questions... Just not thinking of em right now. Thanks for sharing the knowledge brother. It's appreciated.
I am learning, thanks to Bubbleman, that processing wet trim hold the most potential for full melt hash. BUT both are equally potent, and melt has nothing to do with overall potency. I've been doing both, as it works into my life. To best freeze fresh trim I lay it out on sheet trays and quick freeze it, then combine it all in a bag after being frozen. If you freeze it all together you will have to break it all up to process... so cold on the hands.
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Originally Posted by Dan Kone
Great thread man.
A few questions.
There are good and bad ways to agitate?
Could agitating too long actually give me a lower quality product?
You mentioned that collections from the 120 bag are cooking grade. Do you have any information on cooking with hash/infusion?
or can you point me in the right direction (link or book maybe?) to find this information?
Good and bad: Yes, gentle is best, the bubblemachine I use is very gentle, way more so than possible with a bucket and paint mixer. Now I won't talk shit on Subcool cause he is THE MAN, but his three minute hand stir bubble hash is abnormally awesome. He must be washing it again after to get the rest of the trichomes, or just be buried in trim. Most people who don't use the machine use a paint mixer, and that IMO is way too rough. Rough agitation breaks up the plant matter, which is bad. The intent is to agitate the ice/water/trim mix to break off the trichome heads without breaking the plant matter at all.
Too long? Yes, and depends. I can wash for up to an hour with the machine on "soft" setting, as long as I keep it cold (add ice as needed). If I were to run it again I would get a little more hash of low quality. Those trichome heads break off VERY easily. Generally 20 minutes on soft in the machine is good. If I were to do a one minute run it might be comparable to Subcool's world class three minute hand stir.
Hash infusion? That post is in the works. I've been doing that forever. I use coconut oil and a yogurt maker (cheapest electric hot plate ever). It takes generally 90 minutes at 212 degrees (water boiling temp) to fully decatboxylate. In a yogurt maker it takes longer, and tastes better. Homemade hash caps are my jam.
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Originally Posted by klassifyme
sub'd
hey matt i noticed when i started making bubble that the biggest rookie msitake is too much water,not enough ice
just my 2cents ,great thread
Thanks for the input. You are totally correct. I find making bubble in the summer is way more difficult than in the winter. In the summer I will use almost twice as much ice per run because I have to keep adding more during the wash.
The machines help to increase the ice:water ratio because they spin from the bottom like a washing machine.
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Originally Posted by swishsweet
What are your personal opinions on bubble hash vs. honey oil? I am finishing my first grow soon and I was considering investing in a bubble bag set or just being cheap and making my own honey oil. I have never made either one, and I have only ever smoked bubble hash once but it was BOMB! I feel like bubble hash looks much easier to store then honey oil but looks a lot more complicated to make. Is a set of bubble bags durable enough to last many hash pulls? Is it worth the money? Why am I asking so many QUESTIONS!?
Okay, Ill come out of the closet and say that I used to work at a well known dispensary. While working there I convinced them to stop carrying BHO as there was a lot of bad local press about idiots blowing up apartments. But properly purged BHO is awesome, and rare IMO. Good BHO should not be sticky or oily, but more like an off white-wax, imo of course
Yes, the bubble gear is worth buying and lasts forever. The actual drain bags last literally decades. The work bag that comes with the machines gets beat up and will need to be replaced after... I'll say... around 200 pounds of trim if you take care if it well.
As for worth the money... yes. Any hash you make will be worth at least 20/gram commercially. my suggestion would be to make your bubble as good as you can. Smoke it with your grower friends. Then convince them to let you make their hash, for a commission of half the final product.
I would try (if you are on a budget) to just buy the bags you need to get started. The 45, the 120, and the 190.
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Originally Posted by stoneyluv
I am in the market for a set of bubble bags and i noticed all the ones i looked at were made of nylon. is there a better material? or are nylon ones just fine?
I use bubbleman's gear, and have no complaints. Nylon seems to work great. But the bags will go moldy/mildewy if left wet and dirty. I compulsively rinse and hang-dry my bags. They have to get 100% dry within a day IMO to be safe. I sometimes clip them to the ceiling fan and turn it on to help them dry faster.
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Originally Posted by |3laze
Nice thread Matt, good info all around. Definitely one of the better "how to" thread on making bubble I have seen. Cool to see someone else using the drain method too. I built a similar set up for my 20 gallon bags about 4 years ago, and man what a difference it makes. One question though - why do you soak your material for 10-20 minutes before you agitate it? Is it to get it cold?
I don't think this was mentioned in this thread, but I always freeze my material first . I've found you tend to get much a much better extraction when you do this. The trichrome heads beak free much easier, allowing you to maximize your yield with a a much shorter mixing time. I've seen some people claim the freezing ruptures the trichromes, but after observing them with a microscope before and after being frozen I've found this to be total BS.
Also just my two cents: Having done many, many batches using both fresh, wet material, and dried material, from the same plants, I've found the fresh stuff always comes out better IMO. I'd agree with you that people that claim dried shake gives you "crap bubble" don't know what the hell they are talking about, since you can pull some amazing quality with dry shake, but the wet always comes out a little better IME.
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I let the dry trim soak in ice water before beginning agitation for two reasons. First: to chill the trim. I make my own ice, so freezer space is always limited. Second: is to rehydrate the plant matter, so it will not crumble or break-up. This gives cleaner separations.
Agreed on wet is better, and dry is also great if you treat the trim gently.
Freezing trim is not bad for it. I've worked with trim that has been frozen for half a year or more and got amazing results. The Blueberry/NL hash pics previously are from fresh frozen trim that sat in someone's freezer for half a year.
20 gallon bags: get it!
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Ahh, OK that makes a lot of sense. I've noticed the same thing on my runs. If I have some shake that I feel is too dry I will re-hydrate it by slipping a tortilla into the bag the day before I freeze it in preparation for the next batch. Over-dried material definitely results in contaminants in your hash.
Do you have an ice maker to recommend? With the amount I've been making the last year or two I think it's finally time to buy one. I'd need a pretty good sized one, the 20 gallon bags use up ice pretty fast.
For ice makers, no I make mine the old fashioned way with lots of trays. I prefer round edge ice cubes, and the larger the better as CA is hot most of the year and I like to do run after run, re-using the unmelted ice from previous runs. I'll also say that this week my local water temps are super low, making the process way more efficient.
Most ice makers are crap as they design the ice to melt fast, which is good for drinks, bad for bubbling. I've been in kitchens for over a decade, have worked with ice from dozens of machines, and homemade cubes are tops.
Originally Posted by klassifyme
i just let it dry in a glass bowl, yesterday i made some with purple urkle and it is super sticky almost full melt but all my sativa hash is waxy hard and crumbly , i suspect its just the strain but nor sure, you'd know better than me thanx
Strain does determine melt. As mentioned earlier: Melt is not an indicator of potency, but of the presence of oil soluble terpenes, which are responsible for part of resin flavor. Indica strains have been selected for a thousand plus years to make good hash, and that is still very true to this day. Cannabis sativa hash is somewhat of a new product, as traditionally C. sativa flowers are smoked and C. indica flowers are turned into dry screen hash.
Now it is all mixed up, and most strains (actually varieties but we don't need to go into semantics) are a combination of C. indica and C. sativa genetics. Hash melt is truly a mix-n-match of different genetics. We should start a library of strain and melt quality.
Don't worry about meltyness, it is the affect on your head/body that is the true judge, and we all have unique biochemistry, so varieties affect us differently. If you want full melt, grow indica I'm growing Jack Herer because it gives me a "happy euphoria" that I've found in only this strain, green crack, lilikoi, and strawberry cough. All three of those strains make not-fullmelt hash and give low hash yields... but the high is right. Feel me?
I used to do DJ's Blueberry and BCSC Big Blue, for years. The hybrid made WAY better bubble than the pure. The hybrid, with NL and 80% indica was a world above the pure 60% indica in terms of hash. But the pure flowers were so amazing in flavor and color, and were the prettiest I've grown. So... I like to grow an indica hybrid for bubbling and a sativa hybrid for smoking.
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Originally Posted by RPsmoke420
Good Morning! Hope you had a good Turkey Day man.
Got a couple questions for ya...
After you have removed the hash from your bags... do you place the "clump" in a drying screen? Do you press the screen or place it between towels at all? How do you store the "clump" over night? or was I mistaken?
You mention you leave them as is to dry up some over night. The next day is when you break out the microplane and sifter, right?
I tried doing this over the weekend and was having a hard time. Like I said, I had always began breaking up the hash immediately after removing it from the bag. I would start breaking it through the sifter (worried about mold). After leaving the "clump" out over night, it became like super putty. No way to "grind it" and I don't see how I could get a sand texture out of it. Just super soft and pliable/sticky. It would just gum up and fill the wholes in the microplane.
Obviously I made a mistake somewhere. Wondering if you had any tips.
and for what it's worth - I picked up a large silver spoon and retired my old wooden one. I tried the 3 minute mix... WOW. I upped it to 5 minutes and was still pretty impressed. I think that's what I will stick with. Then do a second run for 30 minutes and use for cooking. Just thought I'd share. Made some amazingly golden, pure hash.
Yes, after removing the wet clump it goes on the drying screen. I put a towel underneath, and cover the tray with a silk screen for the night. No pressing or paper towels, the drying will happen next. The next day I have to judge if the hash is ready to break up, it may take an additional 12 hours. If the hash has dried out enough to go from crumbly to an oily mass, then I know it is ready to break up.
When you break it up too early the hash will form smaller clumps and not easily grate. Its all about the right wet/dryness to grate it properly. Like I said before, depending on your household temps this could be overnight or up to 24 hours. I find waiting to break it up is the best way to get the "crystal" form bubble I prefer. Mold won't grow overnight. If it was gumming up the holes your bubble was either too wet or too warm. Sound like you were grating some super high grade 5 minute hand stir... and that might need to be chilled pre-grating as the oil content is very pure.
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Originally Posted by Parker Lemire
Mr. Ganja,
I made bubble hash for the first time the other day, and enjoyed it very much.
As you know, what was at the bottom of the bag was a pile of wet trichomes(and other stuff im sure)....
I scooped it out with a spoon and put it on a paper plate to dry.
Now its dry and I want to make it into a pliable ball of dark hash.
I tried ironing it with wet news paper,with wax paper, and with a hot metal spatula.(just messing around)
If you wouldnt mind making some suggestions to help, I would appreciate it very much!
Thanks for your knowledge...
I would not press an hash until you are certain it is dry. At that point there is little reason to press other than long term storage. If you plan on smoking this hash, don't press it, it will only be harder to smoke.
If you must press it, use a glass jar of boiling water and press lightly. Simple and not too hot. Rize UP!
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Mr. Ganja... lol... is that me...
Originally Posted by upthearsenal
Although, you mentioned sprinkling the keef onto a bowl, I've always pressed my keef and heated it in to a malleable ball. I noticed when I did this it tasted better than the initial keef, or was I just imagining things...
there are so many opinions on this. I think pressing/heating releases the terpenes, so can taste some of them before they get burnt. but i usually don't press or heat either.
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2011 NOTES!
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
whats up matt...how you been? which bubble bags you recommend? found any good ones for a reasonable price? i need to upgrade from my shitty 1 gallons to a 5gal set.
I'm using just the 45 and the 160 now, pretty much for every strain. The work bag is 225 or something like that, for the machine. I like the company (freshheadies.com aka bubbleman's site). Write them an email, give them some links showing how much time you spend talking about this stuff and ask for a discount
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
Man that looks great! Can you eleborate on your drying process? I dont ever get that texture when i make bubble hash. Its usually runny, then after drying its more of a pressed piece of hash. How do you shake it out like that?
Great question.
See the trick is to let is dry as a 1/4" thick patty overnight. Then the microplane comes in. This part is all about my decade of kitchen technique, you will get a feel for the grater and how hard to push for perfect grating. You will learn what it feels like when the patty is ready to grate after a couple battles with "too wet or too dry" pattys. When I gently push against the teeth, they should really bite in and make tiny ribbons of hash. The patty will start to deform if you go too fast, push too hard, or hands are too hot, lol . That's the best imo. The temperature and dryness of your still wet hash chunk is key. Sometimes I set the chunk of hash in the fridge before grating, but if you do this too long the grating takes forever and instead of nice ribbons you get powder. Too cold is much like grating too dry hash pattys. This is an old picture. My new technique does not use the strainer to catch any bits that break off accidentally. I just grate right onto a teflon pan, used only for this purpose. The little chunks that break off accidentally get chilled and VERY carefully grated.
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Originally Posted by stoneyluv
All fantastic info!! I gotta ask, what did you mean by rinsing well?
This is something I do that has gotten a lot of attention, mostly good, lol.
It's in the video I made for youtube. The last 5 minutes or so of the video is that part. Warning, I was super high by that point in the day and it was a hand held part. you can start at 11:00 minutes in if you are impatient.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e_wlN4cSmbY
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
Right on, so you are pushing the pucks when they are still somewhat moist through a screen. If it powders up, i let it dry too much? Do you then press it back to a puck after drying has occured? It seems nice to have powdered hash on the spot rather than having to break it up.
Why do people press it anyway? Storage?
People press it because they don't know how to make hash...
I only press, very lightly, for long distance trips. That hash puck was for TV, and was very lightly hand shaped for the pics and video. After that I broke the puck back up into powdery waxy crumble. All my hash is loose like in the pictures.
Still somewhat moist: yes, but the point is to not push it through the screen, but to let the micorplane do the work.
Originally Posted by aeviaanah
Not sure what you mean by micorplane....let me know brotha! im gettin ready to do a hash run today. ive realized ive never made hash with pure bud. what is your opinion comparing shake hash to bud hash? i dont use fan leaves, only sugar leaves.
Microplane is a name brand for graters. Sorry, I also spelled it wrong in that last post.
I've made hash with buds many times. It's not that easy because you have to break the buds up really well, trim is ready to wash. But buds made great hash if you take the time to break them up, without smashing all the trichomes...
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
ok so the microplane breaks it up and it falls on the screen and through it? the stuff that doesnt fall through, gets microplaned again so it does fall through? nice tek bro!
That was my old technique, training wheels if you will because your hash patty will break up into chunks if it's too wet or too thin.
Now I just use the microplane grater and a teflon coated baking sheet. If you use a non-teflon baking sheet, or anything else really, the hash will stick to it and you will have to deal with that. As the broken up hash dries I move it around and "cut" up the clumps with a plastic card, lol, real high tek
My tip for your first run is to not over agitate, do it gently and slowly for a longer amount of time. Assuming you are hand stirring. I used to hand stir for a hour with a large wooden spoon, tag-team with a buddy. The more ice:water, the harder to stir, but colder is better so do some arm and back stretching.
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Originally Posted by stoneyluv
what is the consequence if I over agitate?
BTW... I requested this a sticky with potroast. and also, thanks for the rep! you bumped me to mr. ganja!
If you over agitate the hash will be contaminated with broken up bits of plant matter, green stuff. I've been cutting back my agitation over the course of the past couple years. Now I do 15 to 30 minutes of "soft" setting agitation. I used to do an hour. Fresh trim gets agitated slightly longer than the dry.
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Originally Posted by nl3004.kind
there is absolutely no evidence that a properly cured sugar or fan leaf has more potency, in addition, it does become substantially more brittle as well as there is some evidence (based on experimentation) that the trichome heads do tend to degrade over the span of a long cure, and there are decreased yields in even well cured trim vs wet (aka fresh) trim...
Than time span is about 6 months from my experience. There is also a factor relating the genetics. Some varieties tend to make hash that holds up better over a long time. I do long term storage of hash samples for testing. Ancient hash culture considered hash premature until it had aged months to years depending on the specific culture.
Just made some amazing full melt blackberry kush bubble from outdoor that was dry and stored since november.
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Originally Posted by porterhouse
Hey fantastic post man. Thanks for getting this all together. I wish I would have seen this before I picked up my set of bags... I went with the 1 gal 4 bag set and am wondering how thigs will work out.
So that set looks like...
-1 gallon 220 micron work bag
-1 gallon 160 micron contaminant removal bag
-1 gallon 73 micron crystal collection bag
-1 gallon 25 micron crystal collection bag
Should I use the 73 or 25? you stop at 45... so is the 25 just going to be a bitch to drain and separate the green, but the 73 too big to catch the good stuff? and for indoor, use the 160 as the "food grade" bag?
just way too much shit to sort out. Thanks man.
25 to 45 is garbage imo. Folks like it because it's better than nothing. But I smoke hash all day and night and can't mess around with mid-grade bubble. And yes, that 25 bag drains slow as hell, all the contaminants you've rinsed through your "catcher" screen gets stuck in the 25.
For indoor or outdoor, there is very little difference when it comes to trichomes heads. The 76 will catch primo hash, but you will loose some, 45 to 76, so if you have the time just use all 3 and keep the grades separate. Then smoke them separately on different days and tell us what you think.
My set up is technically three bags. A 220 in the machine. Then a 120 or 160, usually 160, I throw that out now and cook with primo . Then a 45 to catch the primo. Melt depends on variety and how well it was grown. Some popular full melt varieties are sour d, blackberry kush, og, blue dream.
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
i didnt get the 25 bag but mine is 45 or something. i like the 90 micron myself. with what you got, i think you will like the 73 the best. different plants bare different size trichomb heads, you may find a higher quality hash in one bag per strain as opposed to another bag, different strain.
That is generally true. But also, most of the varieties we grow are hybrids that are somewhere in the middle of the genetic spectrum. I've found that if you agitate correctly, then you can just catch everything 45 up, and you get (obviously) better yields. But I do my rinsing the hash thing every time. I used to use all 8 bags and figure out what was best for each variety, then I noticed it was the same bag, the white bag. Sometimes the second bag changes, for old dry material or under developed material.
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Originally Posted by aeviaanah
i agree i like using wet trim reduced for a day and then put in freezer, but doesnt thc conversion happen within the trichomb?imo, if someone has proven curing to work on bud, it should apply to leaf matter as well. that is, since both bud and leafs have trichombs. not tryin to argue, just a friendly debate!
Decarboxylation occurs slightly as the gland heads dry. This happens after you make the hash and dry it out, the same as drying the gland heads on the plant then separating and collecting them. Decarbing really occurs when ya smoke it. Raw hash and bud has little active THC.
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Originally Posted by Da Almighty Jew
Matt, How long can i store dry trim before it goes bad? and how should i store it?
For up to 6 months. As air-tight, cool, and dark as possible. I keep extra trim in turkey bag, inside 5 gallon buckets with lids because they seal well.
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Originally Posted by Dan Kone
Ever used dry ice instead of normal ice for making hash? If so what were the results like compared to normal ice?
yeah, i do a dry sift w dry ice sometimes. low yield great results. also ive used dry ice with the ice water in small amounts, its not really needed for me. i just run w lots of ice and a little water, the mix is around 33.0 degrees F
use fresh frozen, which means wet trim.
do not overmix. gentle is key. no power drills. hand stir or machine style.
use RO water and ice.
clean everything obsessively.
break the hash up as well as possible to let it dry. then dont touch it until you smoke it.
use lots of bags. expect low yields if you want quality.
crap material makes crap hash. preme, damaged, browned ect all ruin hash.
I make my ice wax from buds like this vegan organic
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Originally Posted by mellokitty
hey prof rize i need a bit of a recap: i know that fresh frozen trim is ideal, but i simply didn't have the freezer space this time around so i had to dry it all.
what should i do differently with dry trim?
I use dry trim sometimes. You want to let it soak in the ice water for a good 20 to 30 minutes to let the trim rehydrate. This reduces the plant matter contamination in the extract. Also, since its dry you want to handle the trim as gently as possible to keep the broken plant matter to a minimum. This starts at the trim table and holds true until the end of extraction. Using fresh (not prefrozen) trim also has given me great results. We call it a living plant extraction since the trichomes are extracted minutes after the plant is harvested.
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Originally Posted by mellokitty
thank you!
hopefully by the next time around i have more space in the deepfreeze. i've been preserving like crazy and it's kinda stuffed to the gills right now.
another thing:
the test runs i've been running are, well, the 73 is like wetted kief none of them are melty.
i'm wondering what factors i should be considering here? i took the shake from my medibles stash so it's 6 months to a year old, it's dry, i let it sit for 1/2 hr before i ran it in the payload washer for 20 min, i didn't overload the workbag.
i did one batch where i drained it right away, and one where i let it sit for about 15min after mixing, i'm not entirely sure there's much difference between the 2, if at all......
it seems like every time i try to use dry shake for bubble i run into problems. what am i doing wrong? <--whine
yeah, old trim makes dry non-melty hash usually. sounds like it is the material. My best hash comes from fresh buds. Melt is mostly determined by strain and how well the plant was grown. Most indicas do not make melty hash. Sour makes great hash, most sativas do, although they yield way less. And pulling early ruins the hash melt and yield. Mixing varieties also throws off melt. What are you working with? I've updated just about every step of my hash tech since I made the video and this thread.
Updates include:
using more bags: 220 (work), 220, 190, 160, 120, 73, 45
using no ice in the work bag (for machines)
using all RO water
using (chlorine free) paper towels instead of cloth to wick out the water after collection
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Originally Posted by mellokitty
right now i have some of a friend's tall kush trim (dry, about a month old) and my own og kush trim (dry, just bagged a couple days ago).
i'll probably be experimenting with it in the next couple days here.
for bags, i have a 4 bagger (5 gals).
"pur" filtered water.
other than that, i'm going to have to pickle some fish before next harvest to make room in the deepfreeze
are you "let it settle before you drain" (if so, how long?) or "drain right away"?
I drain right away, then rinse the remaining trichs down, off the ice.
Can't you smoke the fish? I'll bet you are well skilled in smoking
post edit:
Pur filtered is okay, but that doesn't remove the dissolved solids like RO. Maybe I'm just a purrrrrfectionist.
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Originally Posted by Dan Kone
I've noticed you never use a 25 bag. What's the reason?
because i only keep the purest grades. the 25 bag has the most contamination. the 25 is good tho, and tested as high or higher THC% than the other grades.
Check out page 46 of july 2011 kush mag. Steep Hill Lab and I did a project looking at hash by micron. http://issuu.com/kushdailybuds/docs/kushnocal_july11
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Originally Posted by poplars
so I have a question...
I've read everything in this thread about soaking for 15-20 mins before putting the ice in and disturbing the trichs in the washer, I've read about how long to wash.
but what I'm wondering is, do you let the trichs settle directly AFTER the wash stops? or do you let it drain into the 5 gal bucket first THEN allow the trichs to settle?
everything else is very well and thoroughly explained, I probably missed the part that explained this.
you dont need to let the trichome heads settle. most just go with the water when draining. then I rinse the ice and machine clean with chilled water to collect any trichs that stayed behind after the initial drain.
Why I prefer physical extractions (dry screen and ice water) over solvent extractions (BHO, QWISO, CO2, N2) extractions.
1) safety
2) separation of trichome heads by size
3) legal under 215
I could write all day about each of these but I'll briefly elaborate.
1) Safety: The danger of all solvents, especially bho, is the risk of fires and explosions during extraction. People have been dying from trying to make bho for many years, it happened just a few months ago. An explosion is reported almost every week, and that is just the big ones that make the news. If people don't die they sometimes just lose their hands, a local man has been in a coma for the past couple months. He is a friend of a friend, its a small world ey? Obviously smaller pan fires and explosions are hidden because of the illegality of the extraction. I could post dozens of news reports of this happening, but its really not needed. BHO explosions are happening to medical marijuana patients, this info also makes the news.
2) Separation of trichome heads by size.
I could write an entire thesis on this working with Steep Hill Lab. To sum it up: small trichomes are different than large trichomes chemically, medium being the preference for smoking. The article in July 2011 Kush Magazine, on hash, that I worked on with Steep Hill, clearly shows that the different bags have different chemical analysis, and thats just looking at three compounds of the hundreds of cannabinoids, terpenoids, and flavonoids that combine synergistically to create what we call "high". Terpenoids act as agonists and antagonists to modulate the high, this is just becoming known.
I will clearly pose the hypothesis here and now that the medium sized trichomes (73 to 120 microns) have the highest terpene to weight levels. This is why the 73 to 120 grades are the most melty, oily, and flavorful.
Here is an example. Sour D 73 and 45. The 73 is Amber, the 45 is Red. They are different chemically, and its not just a slight difference in THC.
Dry ice can be used to the make the ice water as cold as possible. Too much and the slurry will freeze so you gotta be careful. Folks also do dry ice dry-screening, followed by an ice water rinse.
CO2 extractors are from eden labs.
Originally Posted by CollieMan1
Once grated and dried in a pile..does the hash go directly into the cure jar for the final process before smoking?
yes. drying takes from 24 to 48 hours depending on several factors like ambient RH and Temp. Basically every other ice technique takes several days to a week to dry completely. maximum surface area means fastest drying.
Originally Posted by 420forme
Thanks for all the great info Matt, has really helped the quality of my bubble. I do have one question, why don't you use a smaller 25 micron bag? Isn't that the cleanest seperation?
no, the 25 is usually not the cleanest, that bag catches the tiny green chlorophyll particles. i dont even use a 25 anymore because it drains so slow and makes a cooking grade hash.
Originally Posted by mellokitty
hey prof rize... got my hands on some fresh unfrozen sugar leaf.... anything special/different i should do? <3
freeze it asap. then use it after 24+ hours of freezing. you don't need to soak to rehydrate before extraction like you would with dry trim.
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Originally Posted by watashi
Matt,
Thank's for such a helpful thread - though i've been catching ice hash info from many sites around, I found a lot new and practical tips here. Respects.
I have one question related to curing process. Many sources and my personal talks with local guys in India, for example, say that hash has to be cured at least one year to become REAL HASH. As far as I'm only doing my first steps towards ice water hash and consider to strore my product for a while, can you advise on maximum time or oldest hash you had occasion to smoke? Was it your hash? What is the best way to store IWH let's say for one year?
In Uzbekistan (former USSR republic - now independant state near China boarder) one guy sweared to me that he used to smoke local hash stored since 1945 and it was awesome??
Hash does not need curing to be hash, that is only for old school contaminated hash. Pure extracts can be smoked about 24 hours after being made, although they continue to cure over a couple weeks. After about 6 months the potency actually goes down as THC is converted to CBN.
Curing is generally to allow the green matter to breakdown, that applies to flower and extracts. When you have no green matter, the cure is much shorter.
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Originally Posted by Bodhi Diesel
Matt, How do you keep from contacting the Micro-Plane with fingertips as it crumbles??
Experience and careful work. I have 1000 hours microplane experience from my kitchen career. Once you get to the end you can grate with the grain of the razors instead of against to crumble what is left without shaving your finger tips.
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Originally Posted by midwestmmj
i dunno if this has been asked, but i followed subs method of handstirring with some cheap bags off ebay, off half of a plastic bags worth of trim and some small buds i managed 3 grams of hash, i didnt collect anything in the 160 cept straight garbage, absolutely nothing in the 73 but ALL in the 25. its been sitting out for the past 5 days and still has a texture like that of taffy, i thought it was supposed to dry and crumble in 24-48 hrs...
smoking it is alot like smoking resin, sure it bubbles and you get a mad good hit but theres hardly any taste. did i do something wrong? is this good hash for smoking or should i just use it for cooking, also if i used it for cooking, how much should i put in a single batch of brownies? is 2 grams of bubble enough or am i way undershooting it lol. ill post pics if u guys need them.
Sounds like immature product. You should have got a decent amount in the 73 bag... and don't make hash the way Sub does lol
The 160 should be garbage, the 73 should be the highest purity, and the 25 catches the immature trichomes. Taffy is good, but it means your hash is probably still wet on the inside. The taste is 100% dependent on the grow, and again if there is no taste it probably means the starting material was not mature.
If you want to make brownies, I would put at least a 1/4 ounce of hash in the batter. That way you can eat just one brownie instead of the whole pan.
The major step you missed in making ice water extract is breaking it up after making it, to let it dry. Thats how I get such pretty colors.
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Dryin temps and humidity
From High Times January 2013 - Wax On, Making Soleventless hash the Nikka T way Story by Ry Prichard
Nikka T on the subject of Drying temp and humidity.
"Also, Keep temperatures in the drying area between 40F and 68F depending on how quickly you want to remove the water (which will vary according to strain), and keep the relative humidity between 15 and 50 percent. there are certain strains were I like to keep the humidity and temps on the higher end of that range to create the appearance desired by the patient or client...." - Nikka T
