Mau5Capades: builds & grow journal

Growmau5 · Jul 24, 2016

I though this was pretty cool, Gavita illuminating some testing method flaws in Cree's horticultural reference design. And to be honest, I agree with Gavita on some of their points, namely the PAR map on the Gavita hanging that high on a 4x4 space. If Cree had reported PAR numbers out to 6ft x 6ft there is still a shit load of light in those outer areas under the Gavita

PSUAGRO. · Jul 24, 2016

lol, still butt-hurt over beta test team's reflector # losses..............sphere is for "naked lamp" only, yeah ok :roll:

............whatever

edit: yes, cree's test was flawed, lots of bs in the industry..........no surprise

BOBBY_G · Jul 24, 2016

ok then how bout eliminating one or two center cobs or alternatively putting them on a dedicated driver and run them softer?

BOBBY_G · Jul 24, 2016

Growmau5 said:
View attachment 3740230

I though this was pretty cool, Gavita illuminating some testing method flaws in Cree's horticultural reference design. And to be honest, I agree with Gavita on some of their points, namely the PAR map on the Gavita hanging that high on a 4x4 space. If Cree had reported PAR numbers out to 6ft x 6ft there is still a shit load of light in those outer areas under the Gavita

well yeah that was my first comment... that 4x4 isnt a fair fight as it discounts all the hps light cast wide

JorgeGonzales · Jul 24, 2016

Growmau5 said:
View attachment 3740230

I though this was pretty cool, Gavita illuminating some testing method flaws in Cree's horticultural reference design. And to be honest, I agree with Gavita on some of their points, namely the PAR map on the Gavita hanging that high on a 4x4 space. If Cree had reported PAR numbers out to 6ft x 6ft there is still a shit load of light in those outer areas under the Gavita

I'd go so far as to call it dishonestly on Cree's part. Or complete ignorance. Not sure which is worse.

BOBBY_G · Jul 24, 2016

AGREED 100%

AND THEY AINT IGNERNT

JorgeGonzales · Jul 24, 2016

BOBBY_G said:
AGREED 100%

AND THEY AINT IGNERNT

https://www.rollitup.org/t/cob-efficiency-spreadsheets.865238/page-31#post-12793763

I really thought this was common knowledge how they "massaged" the numbers. I'm glad Gavita called them out in it. Very cool.

PSUAGRO. · Jul 24, 2016

JorgeGonzales said:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/cob-efficiency-spreadsheets.865238/page-31#post-12793763

I really thought this was common knowledge how they "massaged" the numbers. I'm glad Gavita called them out in it. Very cool.

Claiming 2.1umol/j from a lamp which in REALITY it's 1.7umol/j NEW with their reflector(nick's slightly used 1000w pro de only hit 1.5umol/j) is also dishonest............

"reflector efficiency should be subtracted" , yeah no kidding.........lots of massaging

guod · Jul 24, 2016

and now take a deep look at your ppfd- calculation.... distance matter as beam-angle..

Abiqua · Jul 24, 2016

Growmau5 said:
View attachment 3740230

I though this was pretty cool, Gavita illuminating some testing method flaws in Cree's horticultural reference design. And to be honest, I agree with Gavita on some of their points, namely the PAR map on the Gavita hanging that high on a 4x4 space. If Cree had reported PAR numbers out to 6ft x 6ft there is still a shit load of light in those outer areas under the Gavita

is Theo, Hybidway? gawd.... they act alot a like now that I think about it.

JorgeGonzales · Jul 24, 2016

@Growmau5 just watched the video. You are a good egg man.

And that leads me to this question: Is @guod doug backwards?

welight · Jul 24, 2016

Guys I would not defend any supplier including Cree on marketing data, the reality is every supplier does this stuff, Cree and Gavita included. The reference design is basically off the shelf bits bolted together to show a possibility. I dont think its really possible to compare an HPS(Light everywhere) with a LED(point source) and get a definitive result that is a fair comparison. I think this forum is clear evidence that LED is evolving at a rate far beyond incandescent bulbs, but I think comparing a ready for sale product like Gavita with a reference design is never going to stand up. I think what it shows is that led technology has endless possibilities and it's still early days and there are a lot of ways to make a grow light beyond a bulb
Cheers
Mark

PurpleBuz · Jul 24, 2016

welight said:
Guys I would not defend any supplier including Cree on marketing data, the reality is every supplier does this stuff, Cree and Gavita included. The reference design is basically off the shelf bits bolted together to show a possibility. I dont think its really possible to compare an HPS(Light everywhere) with a LED(point source) and get a definitive result that is a fair comparison. I think this forum is clear evidence that LED is evolving at a rate far beyond incandescent bulbs, but I think comparing a ready for sale product like Gavita with a reference design is never going to stand up. I think what it shows is that led technology has endless possibilities and it's still early days and there are a lot of ways to make a grow light beyond a bulb
Cheers
Mark

generally agree, except for one point.

An apache at600 has already been shown to perform as well as a typical HPS 1000 watt a few years ago.

white phosphor cobs do better, but I haven't seen any reproducible documented controlled side by sides despite the number of people using them.

VegasWinner · Jul 25, 2016

Growmau5 said:
here is the PAR map for the Canopy10. as hard as I tried spread these cobs out, its still brightest in the center, but only 100µmol - ish. Im really happy with the config so far, its the most even canopy Ive ever had in this room. each of the 9 plant positions is receiving a very similar avg PPF. measurements taken at 18"
View attachment 3731370

I would consider spreading the outer cobs further apart and the middle values will decrease accordingly. maybe 9" wider on each side would lower the intensity in the center without changing overall watts and lumens. peace
Vegas

Airwalker16 · Jul 29, 2016

Because I know Growmau5 will appreciate it:

Victor6634 · Aug 5, 2016

Hi growmau5 any chance on you doing a video showing how to daisy chain a couple of diy cob builds?

ttystikk · Aug 5, 2016

PurpleBuz said:
generally agree, except for one point.

An apache at600 has already been shown to perform as well as a typical HPS 1000 watt a few years ago.

white phosphor cobs do better, but I haven't seen any reproducible documented controlled side by sides despite the number of people using them.

Be that as it may, the anecdotal evidence is all but overwhelming. A guy recently completed a run under a 630W (from the wall) Johnson Grow Lights Maximizer and pulled 950g of really pretty product.

So IMO there's a pattern emerging, where under the right conditions 600W of COB LED matches the results of 1000W of HID.

PurpleBuz · Aug 5, 2016

ttystikk said:
Be that as it may, the anecdotal evidence is all but overwhelming. A guy recently completed a run under a 630W (from the wall) Johnson Grow Lights Maximizer and pulled 950g of really pretty product.

So IMO there's a pattern emerging, where under the right conditions 600W of COB LED matches the results of 1000W of HID.

yes absolutely agree ... imho between 50% and 70% of wattage depending on the actual HIDs and COB light setup.

but still no controlled side by sides that would even come close to real science. The HID / apache side by side was controlled well enough that all it needed was replication to be statistically significant.

ttystikk · Aug 5, 2016

PurpleBuz said:
yes absolutely agree ... imho between 50% and 70% of wattage depending on the actual HIDs and COB light setup.

but still no controlled side by sides that would even come close to real science. The HID / apache side by side was controlled well enough that all it needed was replication to be statistically significant.

That's an easy thesis paper, lol

nogod_ · Aug 5, 2016

This is where it gets interesting.

Transitioning from a completely straightforward, hang-it-up-and-turn-it-on single source with a very narrow range of application, to an absolute jungle of potential configurations.

The trials I want to see are
LED mfg vs LED mfg
Spectrum vs Spectrum
Cobs vs mono
Sidelighting vs without
........I couldnt give 2shits about an "honest" HID/LED side by side.

Gavita knows that their sole advantage is price and cree is just trying to make their "HPS killer" look cheaper than it is.

In 2015 it was cheaper for me to build an LED fixture and run it for 3 years than it was for me to buy a comparable DE HPS and run it for 3 years.

In a year (probably less) it will be cheaper for me to build an LED fixture than to buy a comparable DE HPS.

In 2 years (probably less) it will be cheaper for me to buy an LED fixture off amazon than to buy a comparable DE HPS.

Why are we still talking about Gavita as if they are relevant?

welight said:
it's still early days and there are a lot of ways to make a grow light beyond a bulb

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