Maui Waui ScroG, 2 x125W CFLs, Flood & Drain, Cabinet Grow

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I use two 12cm pc case fans (Antec). One on the lower left (intake) and one on the upper right (exhaust) of the cabinet. In hindsight, I should've doubled up on the fans, having another intake on the opposite lower side, and another exhaust on the opposite upper side of the cab. My temperatures can hit the mid 90s on hot days, and that's a little too warm for my liking, so my box would benefit from a little extra cooling. The fans are connected to an old phone charger.
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I use two 12cm pc case fans (Antec). One on the lower left (intake) and one on the upper right (exhaust) of the cabinet. In hindsight, I should've doubled up on the fans, having another intake on the opposite lower side, and another exhaust on the opposite upper side of the cab. My temperatures can hit the mid 90s on hot days, and that's a little too warm for my liking, so my box would benefit from a little extra cooling. The fans are connected to an old phone charger.
I appreciate all the info, I don't want to hijack your thread, maybe I'm blind, but I don't see a way to private message another member as I do on other forums. If I am missing something please let me know. I am going to have a few more questions as my grow comes along and if you don't mind I would love to have you as one of my resources. I will be starting my own grow log as soon as I get a little bit farther along. I have finished my cabinet and am just waiting on my nutes and my Orca film to line my cabinet and I will be ready to start. I did have a question, I received my capillary mat yesterday and I was wondering how thick of a layer you placed in the bottom of your tub and how thick of a layer of the clay ball media? I took your advice and put two intake and two exhaust fans, I went with 14cm fans as New Egg had them on sale for a great price. Thanks again for your time and info.

Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
I appreciate all the info, I don't want to hijack your thread, maybe I'm blind, but I don't see a way to private message another member as I do on other forums. If I am missing something please let me know. I am going to have a few more questions as my grow comes along and if you don't mind I would love to have you as one of my resources. I will be starting my own grow log as soon as I get a little bit farther along. I have finished my cabinet and am just waiting on my nutes and my Orca film to line my cabinet and I will be ready to start. I did have a question, I received my capillary mat yesterday and I was wondering how thick of a layer you placed in the bottom of your tub and how thick of a layer of the clay ball media? I took your advice and put two intake and two exhaust fans, I went with 14cm fans as New Egg had them on sale for a great price. Thanks again for your time and info.

Jack
Hey man,

No need to worry about hijacking this thread - you're totally welcome to post any questions you have on here. When you start your own thread, I'll subscribe to it.

Just a couple layers of the spreader mat should be fine. It seems thin, but it does the job.

Any pics of your setup?
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Very cool!! I really appreciate it. I've got a very good friend that grows in a big room with 5 1000 watt HID's and has only used soil. So I have a source locally that I can get some advice from, but he hasn't done a mini grow using hydroponics so there's a lot you will be able to help me with that he can't, so again, thanks very much. I just noticed that UPS will be here with my reflective film today so the cab should be completed later today. I wanted to use the same Nute's that you are using so that I could pick your brain on that aspect, that bad thing is I couldn't find anyone in the US that carried it. I did find someone on Ebay that ships over here, unfortunately it will be a few more days till that is here. I have 3 choices for clones from my friend, One is what we believe to be Strawberry Cough, the next one is an OC Kush, and the last is what we believe is an original land-race Indica. I am leaning towards the Strawberry Cough as my friend said it is the most tolerant of nutrients, if you have any input on that I would love to hear it. Anyways, even though its not totally done, here is a pic of my cab. I will be posting lots of pics when I start my own thread.

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And a little bud porn from my buddies grow! He is any where from 7-14 days away from harvest.

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joebowler

Well-Known Member
Yaa, my Orca film arrived and is installed.
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All I need now is some tubing to hook up my grow container and I am ready to start growing. First question, my capillary mat is much thicker than what you used. Here is a pic.
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Do you think one layer is enough, or should I go with 2 layers? What exactly does the capillary mat do? Next question, what do you start your seeds or cuttings in? I assume a coco coir or rock wool plug, once they are started does the plug go right into the growing media? I am thinking about getting a small cloning rig like this.
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I wish I would have had my friend start a clone for me last week but I didn't know how long it would take to get everything else I needed.

Thanks again,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
So yeah, it looks like your spreader mat is thicker grade than the mat I use, so one layer should do. It's used to spread the water and nutrient solution evenly around the bottom of your growing tray. This should help prevent pooling of water/nutes anywhere in the tray, and should also work to help the roots of your plants spread evenly around the tray.

When you harvest your plant in a few months time, you'll see the roots will have comprehensively weaved themselves into the mat.

I grow from seed, so I germinate my seeds using the paper towel method until the tap root is about 1 cm long, then I 'plant' the seed into a small rockwool cube. Once the seed has sprouted above ground, I put the small cube into a larger cube, and bury the big cube under clay pebbles.

If you're growing from a clone, you'll prepare the clone's stem for planting and stick it straight into a small cube. I'm not convinced that little cloning rig is worth using. Since clones initially don't have roots, you need to mist them (spray water onto the leaves) and contain as much moisture as possible (usually by putting the clones into a dome of some kind). The cloner you want to use only feeds from the roots up, and no dome to lock-in the moisture until the roots become established, so I'm not convinced it's necessary. Clones need to be monitored closely for the first week, so I'm more comfortable doing things by hand until the plant has roots.

No worries - my pleasure.
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Excellent info! I am very frustrated this morning, I emailed the seller I ordered my Nute's from and they told me they got delayed. Never let me know, I had to email them when more than 10 days went by with nothing arriving. So I canceled that order and will go with something else, don't know what yet. So, I am in limbo till my clone is ready. If you have any recommendation for Nutrients other than Vitalink, let me know.

Thanks,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Excellent info! I am very frustrated this morning, I emailed the seller I ordered my Nute's from and they told me they got delayed. Never let me know, I had to email them when more than 10 days went by with nothing arriving. So I canceled that order and will go with something else, don't know what yet. So, I am in limbo till my clone is ready. If you have any recommendation for Nutrients other than Vitalink, let me know.

Thanks,
Jack
I'm afraid I can't recommend any other nutrients, because I've only ever grown with Vitalink. I would just go with another brand at roughly the same price point. Check if you have hard or soft water where you live, and buy the corresponding nutrients. And a pH kit.
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Amazing how much can change in one day. I went to my buddies house yesterday and it turns out he had a couple of clones almost ready to go into the veg room! He went ahead and gave me a nice looking OC Kush, I may try the Strawberry Cough next. Looking at the plug, do you think its ready to go into my media?
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I picked up the Botanicare KIND system of nutrients. I was waiting on my last order which has my PH down that I will need. I will be using filtered water, so very low EC. I have the HM COM-100 TDS meter and a Hanna 98128 PH meter so I think I have everything I need (I hope). If the plant is ready to go in the media, do you start out with plain water or go right into a nutrient mixture? And how many times during the day and on what schedule do you flood the media? As soon as I get my girl in the media I will be starting my own thread. I really appreciate all the answers and advice.

Thanks again,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that Kush clone looks great and ready to be planted. I start out with plain water, but only because I grow from seed (which don't require nutes for the first couple weeks of its life). I would start giving that clone quarter or half strength nutes from the first feed.

I flood my tray for 15 mins three times during each light cycle (lights on) - once when the lights come on, then one about eight hours later, and a final one an hour before the lights go out.

Your grow space looks great, btw. Really tidy work. You can usually tell a lot about how a grow is going to go by the prep work someone has done beforehand. What are the dimensions of your box?
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Thank you, I have tried to make it as nice as possible and to have it fit in my place. The grow chamber is 48" tall and 18" square. The bottom I was going to go the same size but I found it unstable so I put a bit wider base on it. The base is 20" tall and 24" wide. It is on rollers so I can roll it anywhere in my house I want to put it. You deserve the credit. I had decided a few months ago that it would cost too much on my limited budget to do this, but that was before I saw the big CFL's like you are using. I was originally going to use 15 or 20 small CFL's and figuring out the mounting of the sockets and the cost of the bulbs ect, ect. I opted to just enjoy my buddies grow. Well I started really enjoying the time I was spending on my buddies grow and I decided to take another look and I found this thread. If it wouldn't have been for that I probably wouldn't have started my own. So thank you very much, you have inspired me!:-D

Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the kind words, man. I like to keep things pretty simple, so there's less to diagnose when things go wrong.

Post a link to your thread here when you start it.
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
You are very welcome. I did have one more question, do run an air stone in your reservoir?

Thanks
I don't use one with my current home-made hydroponic system, because the roots never make it to the reservoir below (it's just a simple flood and drain system). When I used to grow with a DWC system (a Waterfarm), and the roots eventually grew down into the reservoir, I had a air stone disc running 24/7 to prevent the roots from 'drowning' in the solution.
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Okay, I had a couple of people in the local stores tell me I wanted to keep the nutrient solution oxygenated and I should have one in there. If you didn't have one I won't worry about it. You had said you put your screen about 15 inches above the growing media, I have seen many different numbers on how high to put that, Do you always put it at that height or is it more dependent on the plant? Also, how often do you change your reservoir solution and between changes do you just add water or a weakened solution or full strength solution? Last question, do you leave your fans running 24/7 or just when the lights are on? I will putting together my thread later today, I will post the link as soon as it is up.

Thanks very much,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Okay, I had a couple of people in the local stores tell me I wanted to keep the nutrient solution oxygenated and I should have one in there. If you didn't have one I won't worry about it. You had said you put your screen about 15 inches above the growing media, I have seen many different numbers on how high to put that, Do you always put it at that height or is it more dependent on the plant? Also, how often do you change your reservoir solution and between changes do you just add water or a weakened solution or full strength solution? Last question, do you leave your fans running 24/7 or just when the lights are on? I will putting together my thread later today, I will post the link as soon as it is up.

Thanks very much,
Jack
I've heard similar things about oxygenating the nute solution, but so far the lack of an air stone doesn't seem to have affected my results too much (as far as I can see...). I sort of figured, perhaps naively, that the plants would tell me if they were lacking something throughout the duration of the grow cycle.

The height of the screen is really difficult to pitch. I struggle with it almost every grow. Is it too high, is it too low? What kind of phenotype is this particular strain? Will it get really stretchy during flower? It's almost impossible to predict in someone else's grow environment, so my best advice is to keep your first plant small. Small plants are much easier to manage, and the only reason to grow a large plant off the bat is greed. Most first time growers expect ounces upon ounces of bud returned for their months of 1st growing efforts, when really the most important lesson you can take from a 1st grow is simply keeping the plant healthy. Yield comes with experience, in my opinion. You really learn a lot from watching a plant grow and bloom.

I read somewhere when I was deciding on attempting a ScrOG on screen heights that for Indicas, the screen should be 12 inches above the growing media, and for Sativas, the screen should be about 18 inches above. I don't think it's that cut and dry, and each grow space needs to be analysed individually for the best position of the plants, screen, and bulbs in the space. With that in mind, for your first attempt, I wouldn't have the screen any higher than 12 inches, in fact, possibly a few inches lower. You'll want to veg (and maybe top) your plant until it's a couple to a few inches below the screen. When you change to the flowering light cycle, the plant will stretch into the screen and roughly triple in size from when it was in veg.

If you place your screen too high, it won't be fit for purpose as the plant will be far too big to comfortably fit inside your box, which will reduce your final yield. Place the screen too low, and you might not produce a plant with as many bud sites as you would've liked. My point: it's a balancing act that you'll want to tinker with over your first few grows until you find what works best for your space.

I use a 20L reservoir, which I pH balance every few days, and which I dump and refill with fresh water and nutes every 7-10 days. I rarely add water and supplemental nutes to an existing tank, I usually just dump and refill every week (give or take a few days). The bigger the plant gets, the quicker she absorbs water and nutes, so if you're using a smaller tank, you might need refill more frequently when your plant is flowering.

I keep my fans running 24/7 - I don't want any stale air trapped in the box when the lights aren't on. If I had two intake and two exhaust like you, I would consider having all four on when the lights are on, and maybe switching one intake and one exhaust off when the lights go out. I guess it depends on the ambient temperature in your box when the lights are off. If your box is in a cold room, the fans might draw in too much cold air when the lights are off, so I suggest you do a test before planting to monitor the temperatures in your box with lights on, lights off, fans on, fans off, etc, and make sure what ever combination you use, your temperatures remain within recommended thresholds when the lights are both on and off.

Looking forward to your grow, dude. I'll try to offer as much help as I can, but I'm really just a hobby grower, so I can't predict how much help I'll be. My knowledge of what to do when things go wrong is limited, but I've made plenty of mistakes and miscalculations along the way.

Loving it!!! Got some pics of your current grow?
Thanks!! Sure, here are a couple of pics just taken of my Ketama (Moroccan Indica landrace). She's a few weeks from seed. Short, bushy, with super-tight internodal growth. Just the way I like them, because this pheno lends itself well to a ScrOG - the canopy usually stays fairly uniform without much training.

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joebowler

Well-Known Member
Right now, with a room temp of 72F/22C, lights on, all fans running, inside of my cabinet is running about 77F/25C, with humidity of about 38% During the night when everything is off it drops down to about 65F/19C, with no fans on. What temps do you like to see, both night and day?

I am surprised at the size of your reservoir. I thought it was only about 12L. I am running mine near to the top, definitely higher than I would like. I think I will get a bigger reservoir before my first water change.

I will go with your suggestion of 12" on the screen height. I am not greedy as all, this first one is all about learning and having fun, and man I am having a blast. I am with you on being realistic. I don't really know what to expect as far as yield, but based on other grows I've seen, I hope to get between 1-2 zips of good clean bud.

I have read that I want the PH to be between 5.1 and 5.9 with 5.2 being optimal. What do you aim for on your starting PH?

You may be just a hobby grower but your results speak for themselves, and between you and my friend here I think I will do well.

Thanks,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Your temps are right where you want them to be, I'd say. Mine get a little higher as the plant increases in size because I have less airflow than you.

My reservoir is not quite 20L - I think it holds about 18L, and unfortunately my water pump doesn't move the final 3 litres of the tank because the water line at that point in the tank is below the part of the pump that draws in water. The plant has roughly 15L of 'usable' water per tank, which during flower, can be consumed within a week.

I keep my pH anywhere between 5.3 and 5.9, usually trying to pitch it in the middle at 5.6. It can fluctuate from one day to the next, but you should be fine within the parameters you suggested too.

Seeing pics of your setup, I'd agree that 1-2 zips is a fair target.

Jim
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Your temps are right where you want them to be, I'd say. Mine get a little higher as the plant increases in size because I have less airflow than you.

My reservoir is not quite 20L - I think it holds about 18L, and unfortunately my water pump doesn't move the final 3 litres of the tank because the water line at that point in the tank is below the part of the pump that draws in water. The plant has roughly 15L of 'usable' water per tank, which during flower, can be consumed within a week.

I keep my pH anywhere between 5.3 and 5.9, usually trying to pitch it in the middle at 5.6. It can fluctuate from one day to the next, but you should be fine within the parameters you suggested too.

Seeing pics of your setup, I'd agree that 1-2 zips is a fair target.

Jim
Very cool,
Thanks again,
Jack
 
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