Micro Herd Nerds

greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
DANKSWAG said:
But then again everything we truly need is already in the ground and where the microherd numbers arn"t in your favor, feed & breed those little bastards.

DankSwag
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well, in a perfect world, yea, that's totally accurate
BUT that's really a vague statement though, there is MUCH more to it than that
The Law of the Return is crucial in that regard, and keep in mind almost ALL cannabis growers ignore that, as well as growing in plastic of fabric containers, none of that is natural at all.
so that statement isn't really that trues considering what 99.9% of cannabis growers do
All the flowers and leaves from the plant are not allowed to degrade and feed the next yrs plant, those things make what we all do, very un-natural
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
well, in a perfect world, yea, that's totally accurate
BUT that's really a vague statement though, there is MUCH more to it than that
The Law of the Return is crucial in that regard, and keep in mind almost ALL cannabis growers ignore that, as well as growing in plastic of fabric containers, none of that is natural at all.
so that statement isn't really that trues considering what 99.9% of cannabis growers do
All the flowers and leaves from the plant are not allowed to degrade and feed the next yrs plant, those things make what we all do, very un-natural
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It was intended to be a very generalized statement, which as you said in a perfect world, you wouldn't have to grow the microherd in theory. And remember in theory, theory & practice are the same, but not in practice.o_O

If you recall I alluded in the beginning of this thread to the overall emphasis of the subject matter is based on a statement of a noted and very well respected microbiologist, regardless of OUR, your and my experience and others experience collectively of operating on a different mindset.

So is Elaine just theorizing or is she correct when she says all your plants requirements to grow, every nutrient they require from A-Z is already locked up (insoluble) in the clay, the silt & sand? This is a rhetorical question in case there is a question about the question, no question!. Of course if you are hydro farming with coco in a flood in drain this is not applicable to you, but if you are building containers one may want to rethink their approach which most take of mix and bake and soil ready to pop in plants, sure it works but if you have grow tired of doing the same work and perhaps, you are like me work smart not hard, there has got to be a way to incorporate what you astutely noted happens outdoors with natural composting the return of food to the soil, beyond the exudates from the roots for winter feeding if you don't mind the term.

So this bring up a very notable subject for me SIP, self irrigating planters. I've incorporated them indoors on a larger scale then a typical planter, with the idea of reproducing this carbon cycle you and I are well versed in.:bigjoint:

DANKSWAG
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
DANKSWAG said:
It was intended to be a very generalized statement, which as you said in a perfect world, you wouldn't have to grow the microherd in theory. And remember in theory, theory & practice are the same, but not in practice.o_O

If you recall I alluded in the beginning of this thread to the overall emphasis of the subject matter is based on a statement of a noted and very well respected microbiologist, regardless of OUR, your and my experience and others experience collectively of operating on a different mindset.

So is Elaine just theorizing or is she correct when she says all your plants requirements to grow, every nutrient they require from A-Z is already locked up (insoluble) in the clay, the silt & sand? This is a rhetorical question in case there is a question about the question, no question!. Of course if you are hydro farming with coco in a flood in drain this is not applicable to you, but if you are building containers one may want to rethink their approach which most take of mix and bake and soil ready to pop in plants, sure it works but if you have grow tired of doing the same work and perhaps, you are like me work smart not hard, there has got to be a way to incorporate what you astutely noted happens outdoors with natural composting the return of food to the soil, beyond the exudates from the roots for winter feeding if you don't mind the term.

So this bring up a very notable subject for me SIP, self irrigating planters. I've incorporated them indoors on a larger scale then a typical planter, with the idea of reproducing this carbon cycle you and I are well versed in.:bigjoint:

DANKSWAG
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well under that blanket statement, I'd have to say no, she must be theorizing, cannabis cannot be grown continually in containers without replenishing the needed nutrients, they WILL absolutely 100% need them.
you are familiar with The Law of Return, no?
microbes do no add macro/micros they make them chelate them to be used by the plant, but absolutely you would need replenishing
nitrogen in particular.
 
backtracker

backtracker

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
well under that blanket statement, I'd have to say no, she must be theorizing, cannabis cannot be grown continually in containers without replenishing the needed nutrients, they WILL absolutely 100% need them.
you are familiar with The Law of Return, no?
microbes do no add macro/micros they make them chelate them to be used by the plant, but absolutely you would need replenishing
nitrogen in particular.
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There are microbes that take carbon from the air and soil but for a fast growing container plant they need replenished.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
backtracker said:
There are microbes that take carbon from the air and soil but for a fast growing container plant they need replenished.
Click to expand...
essentially all the macro and micros are "processed" by the microbes though, my point was that in a perfect world, sure, the plant itself relies on the previous years detritus/compost to be sent BACK into the soil to feed the plant.
when you eat the fruit, rack the leaves, or smoke the flowers YOU are consuming those macros/micros, it's ALL food, everything on the planet is food for something, and evolution has created the perfect system for plants, typically they drop seeds, they die where they grow, they have time for that dead plant material to break down and compost in time for the next yrs plants
its all simple
but when people rack the leaves, eat the fruit, smoke the flowers, mow the lawn and throw away the grass clippings ,the plant doesn't have that, and that's when they suffer, and that when humans mine huge phosphate mines, and create synthesized salt nutrients, to then over feed with, and have THAT shit end up in the ocean causing ph shifts, algal/fungal blooms, etc.
it's all rather stupid
lets all, as humans, work harder to counter evolution.
yay.
 
backtracker

backtracker

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
essentially all the macro and micros are "processed" by the microbes though, my point was that in a perfect world, sure, the plant itself relies on the previous years detritus/compost to be sent BACK into the soil to feed the plant.
when you eat the fruit, rack the leaves, or smoke the flowers YOU are consuming those macros/micros, it's ALL food, everything on the planet is food for something, and evolution has created the perfect system for plants, typically they drop seeds, they die where they grow, they have time for that dead plant material to break down and compost in time for the next yrs plants
its all simple
but when people rack the leaves, eat the fruit, smoke the flowers, mow the lawn and throw away the grass clippings ,the plant doesn't have that, and that's when they suffer, and that when humans mine huge phosphate mines, and create synthesized salt nutrients, to then over feed with, and have THAT shit end up in the ocean causing ph shifts, algal/fungal blooms, etc.
it's all rather stupid
lets all, as humans, work harder to counter evolution.
yay.
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all true, Here's what I was trying to say http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/09/25/161753383/trees-come-from-out-of-the-air-says-nobel-laureate-richard-feynman-really
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Does anyone question Elaine's damage to nutrient dense food (let alone medicine) within the organic industry due to her misleading claims to her cult like following? From the first minute I heard her speak, I knew she was selling herself. I have a hard time believing that she doesn't understand she is misleading people. I love microbes more than most but that doesn't change a thing.
 
backtracker

backtracker

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Does anyone question Elaine's damage to nutrient dense food (let alone medicine) within the organic industry due to her misleading claims to her cult like following? From the first minute I heard her speak, I knew she was selling herself. I have a hard time believing that she doesn't understand she is misleading people. I love microbes more than most but that doesn't change a thing.
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Happy New Year. She has been working for big ag for years that is how she makes a living. What did she say that is misleading?
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Her theories go against well known plant and soil science. She is not a farmer and any farmer listening to her would best seek out a second opinion....from someone not part of the cult....
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Here is a good start. Nonsense.

"All agricultural soils, from young soil to ancient soil, contain all the nutrients needed to grow plants. If your plants show signs of poor fertility, what are lacking are the organisms that change the nutrients present in the soil from a plant-unavailable form into a plant-available form. What you lack is the biology, the organisms, to convert the nutrients that are present in your soil into a form of nutrient your plant can use."
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Here is a good start. Nonsense.

"All agricultural soils, from young soil to ancient soil, contain all the nutrients needed to grow plants. If your plants show signs of poor fertility, what are lacking are the organisms that change the nutrients present in the soil from a plant-unavailable form into a plant-available form. What you lack is the biology, the organisms, to convert the nutrients that are present in your soil into a form of nutrient your plant can use."
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precisely, well said my friend.
soil science is not even close to supporting that
that's what I was saying as well, and furthermore, even if what she said was accurate it certainly wouldn't be applicable to cannabis growers that typically grow in containers, with god know what sorts of nutrients and such.. soil-less mixes and whatnot...

law of return
law of return
law of return

That is why plants can grown them selves in the wild, the microorganisms are already indigenous, so they aren't going to change much on their own
mothernature is a WHOLE lot more efficient than any of us could ever wish to be
hence my love for compost, it's the closest I've found that I can replicate nature, while still being able to strip the plants of the buds and smoke them.
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Current high estimates of the African population in 2100 are around 10 billion. We can listen to science to feed them, or we can live in a whimsical fairy garden in the Pacific Northwest where soils as fertile as can be and we name our microbes and dress them up and sing songs to the nice ones cheering them on to give us yield. Without Boron you are fucked or sulfur for that matter. Calcium.......ah who needs that anyway?

 
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NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Now some may say this example is silly, which it is, but regardless I find it kind of amusing. Do trees really grow like that? I understand it is a graph (that has useful info at that), but it just serves noone to believe fairy tales of healthy soil being entirely biologically dependent.

The truth is, you can grow her way successfully for a year or two if you had good levels to start......
succession-microbes_gardeningWnature.jpg
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
I would highly recommend the book I am reading now called
MORE FOOD FROM SOIL SCIENCE
The Natural Chemistry of Lime in Agriculture
by V.A Tiedjens

Preface
"JESUS' FEEDING the Philistines with five loaves of bread and two fishes was considered a miracle. If the Bible is true to facts, this gives us something to think about. However, to grow 200 bushels of corn where only 65 bushels grew before is no less a miracle, because it means that we can feed three times as many people. This yield can mean life or death for millions of earth's inhabitants, and can postpone the day of reckoning for several generations."

If you are a soil geek, you need to read this book.
Here is a link
https://www.dynamicgreens.com/app/uploads/2014/11/more-food-from-soil-science.pdf
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
DANKSWAG said:
Let's see if we can keep this about growing the microherd and not some secret soil blend formula that if you buy all these organic ingredients and mix them together you have the most potent powerful soil and poof eerything grows big dense sticky buds, let's get past that to where the real action (science) is within the soil or have you never read Darwin's book the formation of vegetable mold through the action of worms with observations on their habits.

....
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the sole problem is that science doesn't support her statement, so that really isn't applicable
I see (and truly appreciate) your point of view, but it simply isn't true, especially for cannabis growers
 
backtracker

backtracker

Well-Known Member
The more carbon a plant takes from the air the more it will produce as long as it has everything it needs in the soil. i use a product that allows the plant leaves to capture more carbon, it's a form of bacteria.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
backtracker said:
The more carbon a plant takes from the air the more it will produce as long as it has everything it needs in the soil. i use a product that allows the plant leaves to capture more carbon, it's a form of bacteria.
Click to expand...
you are referring to CO2 yea?
what bacteria do you use that allows higher CO2 ?
 
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