Modified Jacks 321 schedule

Vonkins

Well-Known Member
you are running only 1.5g per gallon of hydro mix? in coco?
Yessir .5, 1, and 1.5 per gallon and buds couldn't be happier! .8, 1.6, 2.4 burnt the piss out of them. I notice .6 builds up overtime then they start getting burnt a little. Maybe .6 if I'm not feeding everytime. Like feed, water, water, feed.
 

Vonkins

Well-Known Member
I'm staying around 1.1 ec. I also use a liquid Kelp mixture that has fulvic and humic acid included. Shit is black like tar and absolutely reeks of rotten eggs.
 

Vonkins

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of wrong blanket assertions here becasue there are multiple ''correct'' angles.

For example what ppm are you guys even talking about?. There are 3 different types that I am aware of from a ''meter'' reader and then there is one other type called ''elemental ppm''. All of them will give a different reading of the exact same nutrient solution. For you to say 800 is my max could mean 600 to somebody else on a different scale. Also I would imagine not all ppm meters are the same, what error rate do they have and are you actually calibrating them properly and consistently?.

EC isn't much better. That will change depending on your water and even solution type, it also gives you no understanding of what the plant is using more of. Basically your own EC reading will only be a ball park figure and it likely won't be much use to somebody else. If you start at 0.3 ec water, 0.3 ec consisting of what?. It could mean you personally need less or more calcium than the next person. To simply advise somebody to use 1.6ec because it works for you is vague as fuck.

Aside from EC/meter ppm your environment has a big effect on what levels you can run. PH is a good one, if you let it get out of range then say more N becomes available and then you have to lower N. If you consistently let ph swing from res fill to res fill you will tailor a N ppm specific to your swing. If you then give this N figure to another person it could well be wrong, if they hold a more steady ph.

Humidity also directly dictates nutrient uptake. As renf said he can use 2.0, fair enough.. but that might be with a sustained RH above 60% where the plant transpiring at a slower rate. Essentially the plant is only using 70% of the 2.0 strength (example). If you hold a 45% RH @2.0ec then your plant is transpiring a hell of a lot more and using 90% of the 2.0 ec (again example number) and that then leads to toxicity or nute burn. But again a toxicity or nute burn of what?.. for ren it could be N for you it could be P from your higher level of MKP. But you just say ''well it's nute burn don't use 2.0ec'' or ren could say ''they are defficient use 2.0ec''. Defficiant in what?. Maybe you don't need 2.0 ec, maybe raising it to 2.0 ec is the easy way of giving the plant more P at the expense of giving it more of other stuff it doesn't need. I'm not saying that's the case but you must see how messed up it is to just talk in EC values, or even in meter ppm values.

Light intensity also factors in to the level of nutrient strength you use. If your flower intensity is 600W (in simple terms) over a 4x4 it will be fine with X amount. If you use 200W in a 4x4 it won't be fine with X amount. The edges of the canopy will start building N tox as a first warning.


The truth of it is that Elemental PPM is the most accurate form of understanding nutrient strength. If we are to get into any great detail about sharing nutrient values we all need to be using elemental ppm. The other key thing is to mention what RH and light intensity you are running, broken down to a 4x4 since it's a very common foot print. It would really help all of us.. I find it almost impossible to get info from other people around here because everybody is litterally speaking in different languages of ppm/ec.
So is this why my plants are completely happy at 1.1 ec!!?? My humidity stays around 45%
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I didnt know plants feed more efficiently at lower humidity. Im at 45% humidity and 1.1 ec is killing it!!!! I'm running 75% coco, 25% perlite
i feed mine once a day at 0.5EC with Jack's RO formula. they love it. every grower has to find their own thing that works for them
 

Flowki

Well-Known Member
So is this why my plants are completely happy at 1.1 ec!!?? My humidity stays around 45%
I dunno what your 1.1 ec is in relation to nor will I pretend that I'd know an accurate cut off point for toxicity or deficiency ranges even if I did. But they exist.. so I guess you've landed on some kind of oasis in that 45% desert.

The only thing I'd personally look at is if it effects end weight or not, they can look healthy but the yield can still vary a lot.
 

Vonkins

Well-Known Member
I dunno what your 1.1 ec is in relation to nor will I pretend that I'd know an accurate cut off point for toxicity or deficiency ranges even if I did. But they exist.. so I guess you've landed on some kind of oasis in that 45% desert.

The only thing I'd personally look at is if it effects end weight or not, they can look healthy but the yield can still vary a lot.
Buds are hard as ROCKS!!!
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I prefer 2-1-2 or 2-1-3 (N-P2O5-K2O) all the way through at an EC of 1,2-1,3 (daily fertigation in a peat/perlite/vermiculite based soilless substrate). Nowadays i lean more toward 2-1-2 (after years of 2-1-3) as it was recommended by Dr. Bruce Bugbee from Utah State University for cannabis and so far it is working like a charm. That corresponds roughly to elemental N-P-K ppm of 120-26-100. Prior to trying this i was a bit sceptical about those low P and K numbers but it seems more than adequate and yield and quality are really excellent. Although i don't see that much of a difference to 2-1-3 which works equally as good in my experience.
After switching to jack's 321 from general hydroponics the flavor, resin production, and aroma are all dramatically better. Same yields, but a much higher quality product reminiscent of good organic soil grown product. However, I did experience a constant mild tip burn which I've also seen evident in large veg plants, but not my clones or small plants getting the same formula. I suspect it's just plain too hot, and I took notice to your post. I've also heard @rkymtnman mention a high level of success running a lower EC. I'm switching all of my reservoirs to 1.3 EC at their next fill up. I'm hoping cooling down the solution will resolve the tip burn issue. Other than that I can say nothing but amazing things about jack's. I'm testing the 7-15-30 formula right now on some ladies in their home stretch and am looking forward to sharing the results. I didn't read through the whole thread and forgive me if the answer has already been provided, but do you run the epsom salt or omit it? I've considered omitting it, but I feel the real problem is the fertilizer mix is just too hot and omitting the epsom salt while maintaining the same EC would not solve my problem. Hope to hear back from you when you have a chance :)

Edit: I just realized I'm stoned and didn't even tell you what EC I'm running presently. It's 1.6 EC that I'm experiencing the tip burn at.
 
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PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
My plants in coco dtw are generally happy around 1.3ec. Some strains might like it a bit higher or lower, but this seems to be a good middle ground. I miss monocropping, but I also love variety.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
My plants in coco dtw are generally happy around 1.3ec. Some strains might like it a bit higher or lower, but this seems to be a good middle ground. I miss monocropping, but I also love variety.
Do you run the 7-15-30 finish formula? And thank you for the positive reinforcement going with the 1.3 ec. I'm hoping it ends the tip burn issue I've been seeing. Saving nutrients is a nice added bonus.
 

Vonkins

Well-Known Member
Naw, I just run 321 all the way through, plus fulvic acid and kelp.
I have the same exact recipe. I add a fulvic, humic, and kelp product also plus super thrive in veg. Im running my strength @1.5/1/.5. Tried 2.4/1.6/.8 and it burnt the piss outta my plants. 1.8/1.2/.6 is also very good. I just dropped down to 1.5 because I was getting over that bad burn I experienced and 1.5 is a very simple number to remember and do math with especially when mixing 15 gallons of nutes at once
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I have the same exact recipe. I add a fulvic, humic, and kelp product also plus super thrive in veg. Im running my strength @1.5/1/.5. Tried 2.4/1.6/.8 and it burnt the piss outta my plants. 1.8/1.2/.6 is also very good. I just dropped down to 1.5 because I was getting over that bad burn I experienced and 1.5 is a very simple number to remember and do math with especially when mixing 15 gallons of nutes at once
I always just mix 3.6, 1.1, and 2.4. Then I dilute the mixture with ro water to reach my desired ppm. I don't like monkeying with the ratios. I'd just end up fucking it all up :)

What EC are you running? I'm running 1.6 in flower and I just switched to 1.3 EC for veg. If my tip burn disappears then I'll leave it at that. If not then I'll omit the epsom salt while maintaining the same 1.3 EC.
 

Vonkins

Well-Known Member
I always just mix 3.6, 1.1, and 2.4. Then I dilute the mixture with ro water to reach my desired ppm. I don't like monkeying with the ratios. I'd just end up fucking it all up :)

What EC are you running? I'm running 1.6 in flower and I just switched to 1.3 EC for veg. If my tip burn disappears then I'll leave it at that. If not then I'll omit the epsom salt while maintaining the same 1.3 EC.
1.1 ec 50% strength
 

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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
1.1 ec 50% strength
You aren't using cal mag with jack's are you? I only ask because I saw it in your feed chart. Jack's does not require cal mag. Calcium nitrate supplies calcium and jack's is loaded with magnesium sulfate at 6.3%. Plus the addition of epsom salt as part of the 3-2-1 system and mag sulfate levels are through the roof. Any use of cal mag is unnecessary and will only serve to throw your ratios out of whack. Hell, jack's has so much magnesium sulfate in it that a lot of growers don't even use the additional epsom salt and just roll with the 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. In any event you don't need cal mag :)

How are your girls doing at 1.1 EC? That's pretty darn low.

Edit: There's some fuck-tard named coot or koot that promotes the use of cal mag with jack's 3-2-1 because he's an incompetent idiot. I actually emailed the asshole and told him to stop fucking giving people shitty advice. He wouldn't even respond. Prick :)
 

Creature1969

Well-Known Member
You aren't using cal mag with jack's are you? I only ask because I saw it in your feed chart. Jack's does not require cal mag. Calcium nitrate supplies calcium and jack's is loaded with magnesium sulfate at 6.3%. Plus the addition of epsom salt as part of the 3-2-1 system and mag sulfate levels are through the roof. Any use of cal mag is unnecessary and will only serve to throw your ratios out of whack. Hell, jack's has so much magnesium sulfate in it that a lot of growers don't even use the additional epsom salt and just roll with the 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. In any event you don't need cal mag :)

How are your girls doing at 1.1 EC? That's pretty darn low.

Edit: There's some fuck-tard named coot or koot that promotes the use of cal mag with jack's 3-2-1 because he's an incompetent idiot. I actually emailed the asshole and told him to stop fucking giving people shitty advice. He wouldn't even respond. Prick :)
One of the things I've been liking most about Jack's is NOT having to add calmag growing in coco. Peppers and tomatoes have been loving the runoff to boot!
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